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Post by Onjel on Mar 23, 2009 10:06:39 GMT -5
First, to Onjel for calling it. Second, have to disagree with folks about the value of the bucolic, "let's start over" dying, disappearing, "what are your plans now?", etc. scenes. BSG may not follow the rules of Science Fiction but it does follow the rules of character-driven drama which, IMO, is what it truly is: All the major characters come to know themselves. Everyone is left in touch with who they truly are. Third we seem to be skipping past what is, IMO, the central scene. The showdown in the CIC. The higher power, through the "Opera House" vision/prophecy guides Human and Cylons to a place where they must decide whether to end the cycle of violence. In that scene Balthar, for all his many, many faults, is indeed God's spokesperson. Initially the answer is yes, but proves too difficult to carry out. Tyrol exacts vengeance on Tory for Callie's murder. The cycle begins anew. Thanks, but Shan called it first and I was in agreement with her call. ;D
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Post by Rachael on Mar 23, 2009 12:25:33 GMT -5
First, to Onjel for calling it. Second, have to disagree with folks about the value of the bucolic, "let's start over" dying, disappearing, "what are your plans now?", etc. scenes. BSG may not follow the rules of Science Fiction but it does follow the rules of character-driven drama which, IMO, is what it truly is: All the major characters come to know themselves. Everyone is left in touch with who they truly are. Third we seem to be skipping past what is, IMO, the central scene. The showdown in the CIC. The higher power, through the "Opera House" vision/prophecy guides Human and Cylons to a place where they must decide whether to end the cycle of violence. In that scene Balthar, for all his many, many faults, is indeed God's spokesperson. Initially the answer is yes, but proves too difficult to carry out. Tyrol exacts vengeance on Tory for Callie's murder. The cycle begins anew. I'm not sure most people were criticizing the existence and value of the settling scenes; it's more (in my case) a matter of questioning the artistry with which they were presented. I felt the battle scenes were resolved a bit too quickly, and the settling bits went on too long and got boring. I'm not sure that the characters all did come to know themselves, either. Lee, in particular, surprised me with his sudden conversion to Luddism, and I didn't really feel it was in character for him.
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Post by Pixi on Mar 23, 2009 12:54:25 GMT -5
I am curious what the final consensus of the Scubie board is on the finale. For me the first half was great and there were moments I liked in the second half but overall I did not like most of the second half (Kara a angel? Throwing away technology - you're going to regret this the first time you burst an appendix, Adama going off by himself, the whole silly coda - though I did like Helo surviving, Baltar returning to farming with Caprica and a few other things)
What is the general Scubie consensus? Thumbs up, thumbs down or a mixed half up, half down?
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Post by Shan on Mar 23, 2009 15:05:20 GMT -5
So, I'm with those who oppose Lee's lunatic Luddite plan. At least the DOCTOR would have objected. "Um. Okay, but can I at least keep the antibiotics?" And...small groups. No. Way to inbreed, motherfrakkers. And that'll be nearly literal in a few generations. Plus, small groups are harder to defend if the natives turn out to be not-so-peaceful. I get why they did it - unlike the Pernese, these folks aren't going to be permitted to rediscover their actual heritage in a few thousand years...but, still. Stupid as all getout, people. I'm with the "Bad idea, Lee" brigade here.
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Post by Shan on Mar 23, 2009 15:26:17 GMT -5
I am curious what the final consensus of the Scubie board is on the finale. For me the first half was great and there were moments I liked in the second half but overall I did not like most of the second half (Kara a angel? Throwing away technology - you're going to regret this the first time you burst an appendix, Adama going off by himself, the whole silly coda - though I did like Helo surviving, Baltar returning to farming with Caprica and a few other things) What is the general Scubie consensus? Thumbs up, thumbs down or a mixed half up, half down? I'm in the mixed camp. But I'm still going to watch it again!
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Post by Michelle on Mar 23, 2009 16:16:14 GMT -5
I am curious what the final consensus of the Scubie board is on the finale. For me the first half was great and there were moments I liked in the second half but overall I did not like most of the second half (Kara a angel? Throwing away technology - you're going to regret this the first time you burst an appendix, Adama going off by himself, the whole silly coda - though I did like Helo surviving, Baltar returning to farming with Caprica and a few other things) What is the general Scubie consensus? Thumbs up, thumbs down or a mixed half up, half down? I'm mixed. I was glad they had time to end the show the way they wanted, but honestly, it felt more like two hours, not an hour and a half. I read a critic's comments today that noted that the MASH finale was able to accomplish just as much if not more in just one hour, and the audience for that was exponentially higher. I'm not a fan of battle scenes, especially when between Raptors and Raiders and ... whatever the names of the ships are. Hand to hand is usually pretty exciting, but toaster to toaster was just eh. It seemed like the Centurions were really easy to kill in this battle, didn't it? I think we are pretty much all in agreeance that Lee's idea to forgo technology was really stupid. I am also cranky because I saw Callum Keith Rennie's name in the opening credits and waited patiently for him to appear, only to have him show up for just slightly more than a nanosecond. What I did love: the flashbacks to Kara and Lee's drunken flirtations and Laura's blind date with her former student. I admit I cried when Adama put his ring on Laura's hand. Blubbered like a baby, I did.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Mar 23, 2009 19:47:28 GMT -5
Actually, this ending is somewhat anti-climactic in a way. Trading their technology for the chance to start over and let humans evolve the hard way. Again. And, maybe it will happen again as humans experiment with AI. The cycle may be broken for a time but not forever. . .. Well, I wasn't expecting a happy fluffy puppies kind of ending, cuz this is BSG. I'm just amazed it didn't turn out to be a truly suicidal misison to the Cylon base. I was slighty afeared we were gonna get a "rocks fall, everyone dies" kind of ending. It actually turned out tone-wise about what I was expecting. With just the tiniest sliver of hope for us. Though after the mutiny/revolution I was starting to doubt whether we would actually get that.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Mar 23, 2009 19:49:47 GMT -5
First, to Onjel for calling it. Second, have to disagree with folks about the value of the bucolic, "let's start over" dying, disappearing, "what are your plans now?", etc. scenes. BSG may not follow the rules of Science Fiction but it does follow the rules of character-driven drama which, IMO, is what it truly is: All the major characters come to know themselves. Everyone is left in touch with who they truly are. Third we seem to be skipping past what is, IMO, the central scene. The showdown in the CIC. The higher power, through the "Opera House" vision/prophecy guides Human and Cylons to a place where they must decide whether to end the cycle of violence. In that scene Balthar, for all his many, many faults, is indeed God's spokesperson. Initially the answer is yes, but proves too difficult to carry out. Tyrol exacts vengeance on Tory for Callie's murder. The cycle begins anew. Damn, Onjel's good! ETA: Damn, Shan's good!
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Mar 23, 2009 19:51:11 GMT -5
That's it exactly!! "Do the astronauts have weapons?" Oh, that conversation. LOL!
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Mar 23, 2009 19:56:53 GMT -5
It's not over. It's completed. Oh, well put! It comes from JMS. I read somewhere (Lurkers Guide or someplace) when asked whether he was sad that his own show Babylon 5 over, that was his response. It seems to really be a really good way of articulating my own sentiments, particularly when I hear people always talking about not wanting shows to be "over" or "missing" a show. Battlestar Galactica, Babylon 5, Buffy, Angel, Firefly, Farscape, or any of the other greats are not gone. They're not some ephemeral memory that's disappeared into the ether. They still exist. They will always exist. They haven't gone anywhere and you can revisit them at any time.
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Post by Julia, wrought iron-y on Mar 23, 2009 20:10:15 GMT -5
I am curious what the final consensus of the Scubie board is on the finale. For me the first half was great and there were moments I liked in the second half but overall I did not like most of the second half (Kara a angel? Throwing away technology - you're going to regret this the first time you burst an appendix, Adama going off by himself, the whole silly coda - though I did like Helo surviving, Baltar returning to farming with Caprica and a few other things) What is the general Scubie consensus? Thumbs up, thumbs down or a mixed half up, half down? I'm mixed. I was glad they had time to end the show the way they wanted, but honestly, it felt more like two hours, not an hour and a half. I read a critic's comments today that noted that the MASH finale was able to accomplish just as much if not more in just one hour, and the audience for that was exponentially higher. I'm not a fan of battle scenes, especially when between Raptors and Raiders and ... whatever the names of the ships are. Hand to hand is usually pretty exciting, but toaster to toaster was just eh. It seemed like the Centurions were really easy to kill in this battle, didn't it? I think we are pretty much all in agreeance that Lee's idea to forgo technology was really stupid. I am also cranky because I saw Callum Keith Rennie's name in the opening credits and waited patiently for him to appear, only to have him show up for just slightly more than a nanosecond. What I did love: the flashbacks to Kara and Lee's drunken flirtations and Laura's blind date with her former student. I admit I cried when Adama put his ring on Laura's hand. Blubbered like a baby, I did. The trouble with shooting with real actors (and with not putting your supporting players under contract): CKR went directly from shooting Californication to doing his own series, Shattered. Moore &co had not contracted him to perform for any number of hours, so they took the little they could get. It's especially weird given the amount of interview footage of CKR that's been up at the SciFi site since 4.5 started; it tended to give the impression he'd be ina lot more of the season. This bugs me as much because Leoben needed to be in the series finale as an active player as because I'm a CKR fangirl, honest. Julia, because the file footage kind of sucked.
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Post by Rachael on Mar 23, 2009 20:24:40 GMT -5
Oh, hey, I meant to mention - something else I really loved was the Baltar backstory that we got. Finally, after years of thinking everything he did was for his own gratification alone, we got a hint that he was human, after all. He really fell in love with Six because she took care of his father. It wasn't all about sex, and his betrayal of humanity wasn't QUITE as selfish as we initially believed it to be.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Mar 23, 2009 20:29:16 GMT -5
I am curious what the final consensus of the Scubie board is on the finale. For me the first half was great and there were moments I liked in the second half but overall I did not like most of the second half (Kara a angel? Throwing away technology - you're going to regret this the first time you burst an appendix, Adama going off by himself, the whole silly coda - though I did like Helo surviving, Baltar returning to farming with Caprica and a few other things) What is the general Scubie consensus? Thumbs up, thumbs down or a mixed half up, half down? I think I'm still digesting it, but basically, I thought the fight scenes were very pretty to look at but didn't grab me as much as the second half with the finding of our Earth and making all the final connections and various departures (despite all the archeological and logistical criticisms that Julia and Rachael and others have already brought up). The very last bit in the present, tying us into the story was awesome. I'm still very confused on half a dozen points though, mostly relating to Kara. Ron Moore has just put his podcast up, and I'm hoping that listening to it will clarify those things some.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Mar 23, 2009 20:38:01 GMT -5
I'm mixed. I was glad they had time to end the show the way they wanted, but honestly, it felt more like two hours, not an hour and a half. I read a critic's comments today that noted that the MASH finale was able to accomplish just as much if not more in just one hour, and the audience for that was exponentially higher. I'm not a fan of battle scenes, especially when between Raptors and Raiders and ... whatever the names of the ships are. Hand to hand is usually pretty exciting, but toaster to toaster was just eh. It seemed like the Centurions were really easy to kill in this battle, didn't it? I think we are pretty much all in agreeance that Lee's idea to forgo technology was really stupid. I am also cranky because I saw Callum Keith Rennie's name in the opening credits and waited patiently for him to appear, only to have him show up for just slightly more than a nanosecond. What I did love: the flashbacks to Kara and Lee's drunken flirtations and Laura's blind date with her former student. I admit I cried when Adama put his ring on Laura's hand. Blubbered like a baby, I did. The trouble with shooting with real actors (and with not putting your supporting players under contract): CKR went directly from shooting Californication to doing his own series, Shattered. Moore &co had not contracted him to perform for any number of hours, so they took the little they could get. It's especially weird given the amount of interview footage of CKR that's been up at the SciFi site since 4.5 started; it tended to give the impression he'd be ina lot more of the season. This bugs me as much because Leoben needed to be in the series finale as an active player as because I'm a CKR fangirl, honest. Julia, because the file footage kind of sucked. Yeah, whatever was up with Leoben was one of the things I still don't understand. Of course, there's still The Plan and Caprica.
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Post by Michelle on Mar 23, 2009 21:54:59 GMT -5
Oh, hey, I meant to mention - something else I really loved was the Baltar backstory that we got. Finally, after years of thinking everything he did was for his own gratification alone, we got a hint that he was human, after all. He really fell in love with Six because she took care of his father. It wasn't all about sex, and his betrayal of humanity wasn't QUITE as selfish as we initially believed it to be. Yes, but do you think Six took care of his father, or "took care of" his father??
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