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Post by Lola m on May 8, 2009 21:40:10 GMT -5
"Unless he was starting an evil band." Ha! (Great meta to make fun of the worst of their eps, by the by. ) Ah, between Boyd and Topher, they're figuring it out. But will they be quick enough? or will Briar Rose save herself? OK, that is a truly evil revenge. Keep Caroline's personality and put her in woman after woman so you can keep killing her over and over? (Also? Another excellent example of the truly scary dangerousness of this technology!!) "I'm done laying back in the chair." Ha! How did he not realize by giving her all these personalities, like him, he was making an adversary capable of standing up to him? "I'm not fooling! He's not kidding! We're not bluffing. I'm bluffing. Arggg! But the rest of us, we mean business." [OMG, this episode is so awesome! They are entertaining and amusing me with a serial killer, even as the guy is seriously scary and deadly. Joss and co.? I love you! Did Tim M do this ep? I bow down to them all!) "She won't know. She's me. And we're both comin' to get ya." (And he shoots the physical person there with him, not the recording. Which could just be smart, because she can attack him and the wedge can't. But it could also indicate he really can't bring himself to destroy it, destroy his plan.) What to do . . . save the recorded personality, or go get the bad guy . . . Ah ha ha ha ha!! Ballard ends up "saving Caroline" because he caught the 8-track version of her!
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Post by Sue on May 8, 2009 21:44:21 GMT -5
Dear Joss, repeat after me:
"I solemnly swear...............
to never,
ever, ever,
write, direct or film..........
another scene involving
the freaking gouging out of frakking eyeballs!
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Post by Julia, wrought iron-y on May 8, 2009 21:44:29 GMT -5
First reaction: This needed to be 2 hours long. Typical Joss Finale, then? Julia, oh, bother bother bother...
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Post by Sue on May 8, 2009 21:50:09 GMT -5
First reaction: This needed to be 2 hours long. Typical Joss Finale, then? Julia, oh, bother bother bother... Julia--I sent you an IM.
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Post by Lola m on May 8, 2009 21:50:40 GMT -5
Ah, Dr Saunders has figured it out . . . "I think you gave me more computer skills than would be required by a medical doctor." Not waste the investment. "But why did you decide it was so important for me to hate you." Hmmmmm. Did he do that? Or is that her? Alpha still on the loose, so if we get another season by some miracle, we can have more wacked out Tudyk, which would be the best gift ever. Oh, Ballard. They bought you that easily? And he "saved" November!Mellie!Madeline, not Caroline!Echo. Oh, Echo putting her hand on Topher's heart. Yeah, Ballard, you kinda are nobody now. Ooooooooh!! And that final "Caroline"! Awesome, awesome, awesome ep!
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Post by Sue on May 8, 2009 21:54:09 GMT -5
Ah, Dr Saunders has figured it out . . . "I think you gave me more computer skills than would be required by a medical doctor." Not waste the investment. "But why did you decide it was so important for me to hate you." Hmmmmm. Did he do that? Or is that her? Alpha still on the loose, so if we get another season by some miracle, we can have more wacked out Tudyk, which would be the best gift ever. Oh, Ballard. They bought you that easily? And he "saved" November!Mellie!Madeline, not Caroline!Echo. Oh, Echo putting her hand on Topher's heart. Yeah, Ballard, you kinda are nobody now. Ooooooooh!! And that final "Caroline"! Awesome, awesome, awesome ep! Agreed. Ballard didn't sell out. He's gone into the belly of the beast. He's a double agent. (IMO) Personally I think Boyd is the same and maybe Whiskey and maybe Adelle. So clearly I think by season 4 the LA Dollhouse will be command central for a rebellion against all the other Dollhouses and their Wolfram and Hart controllers.
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Post by Sue on May 8, 2009 21:58:11 GMT -5
Wait, wait, wait. Just read elsewhere the notion that Ballard totally traded himself for Madeleine and introduced himself as "nobody" because he's become a "contractor" --- that is, he's contracted himself to be an ACTIVE!
Obviously.
How did I miss that?
What do you all think of that idea. I'm sure some of you saw it immediately.
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Post by Lola m on May 8, 2009 21:58:42 GMT -5
First reaction: This needed to be 2 hours long. It certainly could have explored things even more with 2 hours, but damn did it make for one hella kick-ass 1 hour ep!
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Post by Lola m on May 8, 2009 22:03:43 GMT -5
Oh, Doc Saunders . . . "I'm not just Bobby." Whoa! Flashback!! Whoa. So . . . this guy bought a cross-country crime spree with psychos?!? OMG! The folks who thought Doc S was an active, sooooooo right! "Whiskey, would you like a treatment?" Whoa!! Whoa!! Whoa!! "The alpha situation was an unfortunate technical anomaly." Well. That's one way to put it. Brought this thing in . . . to defile again. Hmmm. Ballard can make this go away. So, he's gonna claim he's helping them? Only, of course, he tries to spill the beans and no one believes him. Whoa. Every personality that was ever in Echo is gone? He took them? Does he want to build another multiple personality like him to be his girlfriend? Is Frankenstein's monster building his own bride? Maybe Whiskey is also somehow the inside man/plant. Didn't Dominick say "Whiskey?" We did not learn the answer to the question of who was implanting Echo and November with hints to Ballard. She didn't care who she used to be because she "knows who she is." Maybe somebody who was pre-programmed to override any additional programming? [hmm, probably not since she went along with the crime spree] Oooh, I hadn't thought of that possible interpretation of Dom saying that. I thought he was just trying to stir up trouble, but . . .
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Post by Lola m on May 8, 2009 22:07:11 GMT -5
Another thought about next year. Ballard has decided to work from within the belly of the beast. He IS able to look beyond Caroline. IF the show gets renewed he still needs to investigate what the real purpose behind the Dollhouses is. It's like Angel going to work for W&H.
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Post by Lola m on May 8, 2009 22:11:11 GMT -5
Lola-- Thanks for all the quotes. So very many good lines. The reference to Obama was distracting though. I didn't care for it as it took me out of the universe of the story. And it distracted me from the first part of the statement -- something about no contract valid that allows people to agree to be slaves. You are correct, she basically said that she had 28 personalities in her and none of them thought it was possible for a person to sign a contract to be a slave. Which is a classic argument - can you ever really sign away basic rights? (And which also makes me think of a classic argument/discussion in the Angel-verse. Could Angel really have signed away his prophesied shan-shu destiny?)
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Post by Lola m on May 8, 2009 22:12:38 GMT -5
Dear Joss, repeat after me: "I solemnly swear............... to never, ever, ever, write, direct or film.......... another scene involving the freaking gouging out of frakking eyeballs! and **flinch**. Poor handler guy! Poor Xander!
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Post by Lola m on May 8, 2009 22:14:43 GMT -5
Wait, wait, wait. Just read elsewhere the notion that Ballard totally traded himself for Madeleine and introduced himself as "nobody" because he's become a "contractor" --- that is, he's contracted himself to be an ACTIVE! Obviously. How did I miss that? What do you all think of that idea. I'm sure some of you saw it immediately. I think we're at least meant to see this as one possibility.
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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on May 9, 2009 8:28:41 GMT -5
Doc Saunders wonders why Topher programmed her to hate him to much. Are they related? Is she is sister maybe? I NEED another season. Yes, I do. Not in the way I needed another Buffy season because I loved the people and would (do) miss them so much, but because it really has become so VERY intriguing. Like reading a good scifi or mystery book and only reading book 1 of a trilogy (or more). Responding to this one, because it hit the things that struck me. So to speak. Please excuse incoherence as the fluffycat woke me at 5AM, and it's too warm to sleep anyway. I'd like to know why Topher programmed "Dr Saunders" the way he did, yes. Perhaps he was as attracted to Whiskey as everyone else ("number one girl" ) , and was trying to protect himself? I'd like to know what was up with Echo's putting her hand over Topher's heart. Does she have some remnant of Whiskey's upload, the one that Alpha uploaded? Was there something in that personality that was attracted to Topher? Oh the whole, though, I think I'd rather read the book. I'd also like to know what the flaming they were thinking when they tested the equipment on someone who was, according to his criminal record, a budding serial killer. Pre-Alpha was already unstable and they messed around with his brain? I mean, really, guys! Poor Victor. Poor whoever-Victor-was-before. Wait, wait, wait. Just read elsewhere the notion that Ballard totally traded himself for Madeleine and introduced himself as "nobody" because he's become a "contractor" --- that is, he's contracted himself to be an ACTIVE! Obviously. How did I miss that? What do you all think of that idea. I'm sure some of you saw it immediately. No, no I didn't and ewww ewww ewww. Ballard won't be much good finding Alpha if he's been mind-wiped. If he's going to be of any use, it'll be as a free agent with all his faculties intact (not to mention contacts - what about that other agent who's starting to believe), not a doll. I did find the Madeleine-trade appropriate - not to discount Ballard's feelings for M, but freeing Caroline/Echo would only have put her at greater risk. Right now she is safer in the Dollhouse where she can be tracked than she would be loose on the streets. Alpha is obsessed with her, and he's going to be back. They always come back... It just occurred to me that somebody had better get pre-Alpha's last victim into protective custody before he remembers his unfinished project. I had other thoughts, but they went poof.
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Post by Sue on May 9, 2009 9:03:05 GMT -5
I'd like to know why Topher programmed "Dr Saunders" the way he did, yes. Perhaps he was as attracted to Whiskey as everyone else ("number one girl" ) , and was trying to protect himself? I'd like to know what was up with Echo's putting her hand over Topher's heart. Does she have some remnant of Whiskey's upload, the one that Alpha uploaded? Was there something in that personality that was attracted to Topher? Taken together this might point to Topher being "undercover" guy, at least in some capacity. Even typing that I at first reject the premise because how could a "good guy" do what Topher does. On the other hand, if he believes/knows that the combined Dollhouses are planning something like world domination or the Apocalypse maybe he's convinced himself that the end justifies the means. However, he's doing what small things he can-- motivating Saunders to stay away from him (although that might also be self-protection because he knows something about her that he fears---like that she might be able to figure out what he's up to), allowing the dolls to retain some of their core personalities, programming Mellie and Echo to talk to Ballard. He's keeps protesting (too much) "that's not possible" and "this shouldn't be happening" but maybe that's just a cover. I mean, he's the obvious person to be doing all this stuff but I discounted him because: 1. what he does is just soooo reprehensible that I wouldn't consider him to be a "good" guy. 2. especially in the early eps I just really didn't like him at all --- even aside from his function -- it was sort of a visceral reaction 3. it was too obvious so it couldn't be him. Am beginning to think that the Topher actor is also quite good, like Victor. Joss seems to have a talent for spotting good actors. And he seems to like casting them so that they get to stretch: the good guy is then cast as a bad guy, etc. [Tudyk, Fillion, Zoe]. ED was cast perfectly in the role of Faith, I"m still waiting to see if she can play against type. So far she's competent, but not great, at subtle differences. Thinking out loud here: Amy Acker and Summer Glau both seem to be able, when necessary, come off as gorgeous sexpots but at other times to disappear into less extravagant, more mousy (?) identities. My sense is that ED is so extravagantly gorgeous that that works against her playing less than herself. But, maybe it really is just less acting ability. Julia Roberts manages it. She really needs to a have a role where she's not all made up in order to see whether she's more than all face and figure. Does that make sense?
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