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Post by Sue on Oct 9, 2009 21:17:41 GMT -5
Thoughts?
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Post by Sue on Oct 9, 2009 21:26:15 GMT -5
Written by Tim Minear.
Has that BSG guy in it.
Lots of "Victor" -- what is that actor's name? I need to be able to say I knew him when Joss discovered him.
Some trademark humor and quippiness: thanks Tim!
But these are bad people. I was complaining about Glee not having a hero. These are people who work with bad people and allow them to get away with bad things and really don't seem all that concerned.
What has happened to Boyd?
They send the dolls out with creepy personalities and no back-up generator. Ballard just pulled the plug on that guy. Yes, he "deserved" it but is Joss endorsing vigilantism now?
How does the Dollhouse get the police to show up and and rescue those women but ask no other questions? Aren't Echo's fingerprints on a number of crime scenes at this point? Or did Mr. Professor claim to have accidentally stabbed himself in the neck rather than admit that he had paid for a sexy co-ed fantasy. And, ew, just ew. Sorry, but Topher and Adelle are pimps.
Grumble. I wanted to like DH. But ..... this episode, even though it was well written and did have some humor, was just off-putting; seriously off-putting with regard to higher moral issues. Maybe the point is that there is no higher morality in the DH, but then, let's start seeing the consequences.
Too many loose ends and too much oogling.
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Post by Julia, wrought iron-y on Oct 10, 2009 9:33:55 GMT -5
Written by Tim Minear. Has that BSG guy in it. Lots of "Victor" -- what is that actor's name? I need to be able to say I knew him when Joss discovered him. Some trademark humor and quippiness: thanks Tim! But these are bad people. I was complaining about Glee not having a hero. These are people who work with bad people and allow them to get away with bad things and really don't seem all that concerned. What has happened to Boyd? They send the dolls out with creepy personalities and no back-up generator. Ballard just pulled the plug on that guy. Yes, he "deserved" it but is Joss endorsing vigilantism now? How does the Dollhouse get the police to show up and and rescue those women but ask no other questions? Aren't Echo's fingerprints on a number of crime scenes at this point? Or did Mr. Professor claim to have accidentally stabbed himself in the neck rather than admit that he had paid for a sexy co-ed fantasy. And, ew, just ew. Sorry, but Topher and Adelle are pimps. Grumble. I wanted to like DH. But ..... this episode, even though it was well written and did have some humor, was just off-putting; seriously off-putting with regard to higher moral issues. Maybe the point is that there is no higher morality in the DH, but then, let's start seeing the consequences. Too many loose ends and too much oogling. Oh, yeah- so many bad, bad guys on this episode, with Topher sliding back onto the utterly unsympathetic end of things again. Imprinting an active with no GPS with the personality of a seriously sociopathic killer? LOSE. The revelation that Actives are not only monitored but have their imprints actively maintained while they're out seems to me like a bad design flaw- way too many fail points, there. However? "He'll be a mindless robot wandering the streets of Hollywood? No problem, then." is so very verytrueit made the episode for those of us at my house, especially the one whospent his Wonderbread years three blocks in from Melrose and Western. Julia, because Hollyweird is full of the professionally and aspirationally mindless. |
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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on Oct 10, 2009 9:43:17 GMT -5
Written by Tim Minear. Has that BSG guy in it. Lots of "Victor" -- what is that actor's name? I need to be able to say I knew him when Joss discovered him. Some trademark humor and quippiness: thanks Tim! But these are bad people. I was complaining about Glee not having a hero. These are people who work with bad people and allow them to get away with bad things and really don't seem all that concerned. What has happened to Boyd? They send the dolls out with creepy personalities and no back-up generator. Ballard just pulled the plug on that guy. Yes, he "deserved" it but is Joss endorsing vigilantism now? How does the Dollhouse get the police to show up and and rescue those women but ask no other questions? Aren't Echo's fingerprints on a number of crime scenes at this point? Or did Mr. Professor claim to have accidentally stabbed himself in the neck rather than admit that he had paid for a sexy co-ed fantasy. And, ew, just ew. Sorry, but Topher and Adelle are pimps. Grumble. I wanted to like DH. But ..... this episode, even though it was well written and did have some humor, was just off-putting; seriously off-putting with regard to higher moral issues. Maybe the point is that there is no higher morality in the DH, but then, let's start seeing the consequences. Too many loose ends and too much oogling.  to all of that, and also - This hit me between the eyes last night: The people who run the Dollhouse are evil. The clients are, at best, pathetic, and at worst, also evil. The dolls, whatever their reasons for joining the Dollhouse, are minions of evil. There is no good here. Even Ballard, who was presented as a (very) flawed hero, has joined the dark side. We the viewers are voyeurs of all this questionable activity, and therefore, also evil. I don't like being made to feel evil, at least not this flavor of evil. Too chalky.  |
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Post by leftylady on Oct 10, 2009 12:21:16 GMT -5
Written by Tim Minear. Has that BSG guy in it. Lots of "Victor" -- what is that actor's name? I need to be able to say I knew him when Joss discovered him. Some trademark humor and quippiness: thanks Tim! But these are bad people. I was complaining about Glee not having a hero. These are people who work with bad people and allow them to get away with bad things and really don't seem all that concerned. What has happened to Boyd? They send the dolls out with creepy personalities and no back-up generator. Ballard just pulled the plug on that guy. Yes, he "deserved" it but is Joss endorsing vigilantism now? How does the Dollhouse get the police to show up and and rescue those women but ask no other questions? Aren't Echo's fingerprints on a number of crime scenes at this point? Or did Mr. Professor claim to have accidentally stabbed himself in the neck rather than admit that he had paid for a sexy co-ed fantasy. And, ew, just ew. Sorry, but Topher and Adelle are pimps. Grumble. I wanted to like DH. But ..... this episode, even though it was well written and did have some humor, was just off-putting; seriously off-putting with regard to higher moral issues. Maybe the point is that there is no higher morality in the DH, but then, let's start seeing the consequences. Too many loose ends and too much oogling. Topher and Adelle are pimps? agreed. I don't have a lot of time to post, but thoughts; Chaucer/Wife of Bath/use of feminine wiles - pimping one's sexuality for control - google of "la belle chose" leads to www.sex-lexis.com definition as Chaucer's term for "vagina". hmmm.... Terry is forcing his captives into roles - pimping? Yep, Joss, Minear & co. are telling us the dolls are being pimped, or everyone pimps/is pimped? Some viewers are bothered by the violation (unconscious) of the actives. But don;t forget the rape of the mind. That's what is really troublesome - as it should be. This is what I think is Joss' real message. plot point ? when Ballard walks away from serial killer's bedside at end - is that a flat line on screen? did he make sure that Terry will never kill again? leftylady ps good to see we will have a Sierra heavy epi coming up (missed her this week - She and Victor put poor Eliza to shame in the acting dept. Need more of these 2. And Summer Glau to join in 3 wks - another welcome addition. |
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Post by Rachael on Oct 10, 2009 12:33:34 GMT -5
Ugh. Joss has a way with the minds of creepy serial killers.
Of course, he also has a way of getting them killed in satisfying ways.
And is Amy Acker gone permanently?
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Post by Sue on Oct 10, 2009 17:58:21 GMT -5
This hit me between the eyes last night: The people who run the Dollhouse are evil. The clients are, at best, pathetic, and at worst, also evil. The dolls, whatever their reasons for joining the Dollhouse, are minions of evil. There is no good here. Even Ballard, who was presented as a (very) flawed hero, has joined the dark side. We the viewers are voyeurs of all this questionable activity, and therefore, also evil. I don't like being made to feel evil, at least not this flavor of evil. Too chalky. Yes, this is me agreeing with you agreeing with me. This was my initial and primary reaction. I have had one thought since then, and lefty's post below also helps with a difference perspective. But I still felt like I needed a shower after the episode and I wondered if ED sometimes feels that way after taping. Topher and Adelle are pimps? agreed. I don't have a lot of time to post, but thoughts; Chaucer/Wife of Bath/use of feminine wiles - pimping one's sexuality for control - google of "la belle chose" leads to www.sex-lexis.com definition as Chaucer's term for "vagina". hmmm.... Terry is forcing his captives into roles - pimping? Yep, Joss, Minear & co. are telling us the dolls are being pimped, or everyone pimps/is pimped? Some viewers are bothered by the violation (unconscious) of the actives. But don;t forget the rape of the mind. That's what is really troublesome - as it should be. This is what I think is Joss' real message.plot point ? when Ballard walks away from serial killer's bedside at end - is that a flat line on screen? did he make sure that Terry will never kill again?leftylady ps good to see we will have a Sierra heavy epi coming up (missed her this week - She and Victor put poor Eliza to shame in the acting dept. Need more of these 2. And Summer Glau to join in 3 wks - another welcome addition. All of which brings me to two additional thoughts: I suppose the "hero" is Caroline. She was not only willing to be killed but was encouraging the kidnapped women to kill her in order to save the world from Terry. That's fairly heroic. She's also trying to "find herself" (literally) while being controlled by nasty other people. And maybe the Senator played by AD will be heroic. But I'm disappointed in both Ballard and Boyd for appearing to be fairly resigned and accepting of Echo's assignments and other manipulations. Which also makes me ready to fast forward to the time and events shown in Episode 1.13, Epitaph One. Like I said, there seem to be a whole lot of lose ends which maybe just need time to develop (the other Dollhouses and their Evil Overlords; Rossum's part in everything and their intentions) but I'm not really enjoying this part of waiting for the end game. |
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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on Oct 10, 2009 18:32:58 GMT -5
This hit me between the eyes last night: The people who run the Dollhouse are evil. The clients are, at best, pathetic, and at worst, also evil. The dolls, whatever their reasons for joining the Dollhouse, are minions of evil. There is no good here. Even Ballard, who was presented as a (very) flawed hero, has joined the dark side. We the viewers are voyeurs of all this questionable activity, and therefore, also evil. I don't like being made to feel evil, at least not this flavor of evil. Too chalky. Yes, this is me agreeing with you agreeing with me. This was my initial and primary reaction. I have had one thought since then, and lefty's post below also helps with a difference perspective. But I still felt like I needed a shower after the episode and I wondered if ED sometimes feels that way after taping. Topher and Adelle are pimps? agreed. I don't have a lot of time to post, but thoughts; Chaucer/Wife of Bath/use of feminine wiles - pimping one's sexuality for control - google of "la belle chose" leads to www.sex-lexis.com definition as Chaucer's term for "vagina". hmmm.... Terry is forcing his captives into roles - pimping? Yep, Joss, Minear & co. are telling us the dolls are being pimped, or everyone pimps/is pimped? Some viewers are bothered by the violation (unconscious) of the actives. But don;t forget the rape of the mind. That's what is really troublesome - as it should be. This is what I think is Joss' real message.plot point ? when Ballard walks away from serial killer's bedside at end - is that a flat line on screen? did he make sure that Terry will never kill again?leftylady ps good to see we will have a Sierra heavy epi coming up (missed her this week - She and Victor put poor Eliza to shame in the acting dept. Need more of these 2. And Summer Glau to join in 3 wks - another welcome addition. All of which brings me to two additional thoughts: I suppose the "hero" is Caroline. She was not only willing to be killed but was encouraging the kidnapped women to kill her in order to save the world from Terry. That's fairly heroic. She's also trying to "find herself" (literally) while being controlled by nasty other people. And maybe the Senator played by AD will be heroic. But I'm disappointed in both Ballard and Boyd for appearing to be fairly resigned and accepting of Echo's assignments and other manipulations. Which also makes me ready to fast forward to the time and events shown in Episode 1.13, Epitaph One. Like I said, there seem to be a whole lot of lose ends which maybe just need time to develop (the other Dollhouse's and their Evil Overlords; Rossum's part in everything and their intentions) but I'm not really enjoying this part of waiting for the end game. Paul and I have been discussing this episode since last night. I said at least something is happening, even if it's leading up to a huge crash-and-burn; I just don't know if I can watch it. Paul said he wants to see the Dollhouse crash and burn. I guess at this point, it'd be cathartic. Yes, I agree, if there's any sort of a hero here, it'd be Caroline. At least she's trying to redeem herself. Also, wasn't there another agent who was helping Ballard under the table, as it were, last season? Whatever happened to her? Or am I totally confused? I'm also seriously squicked by the Fox ads encouraging viewers to download Echo to their desktops for their own, ahem, amusement. Way to recruit clients and miss the point, Fox. |
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Post by Sue on Oct 10, 2009 20:24:28 GMT -5
Not my own thought. (Ashamed to admit) it came from reading comments online at TVGuide.
final two words of dialog in the episode, spoken by Echo as she stares at the broken body of the serial killer... his (Terry's) trademarked "Goodness gracious."
Creepy. Creepier still when you recall her still identifying as the mom even after being wiped and something that was said in a recent episode about the fact that all of the personalities stay with her and are stored in her. A fact which was demonstrated when Ballard smacked her around to get her inner-ninja to come out.
Lingering bits of mannequin-poser guy (he wasn't really a serial killer, was he? Wasn't more of a serial kidnapper? Or am I forgetting something -- because I"m NOT rewatching to figure it out!)
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Post by Julia, wrought iron-y on Oct 11, 2009 0:35:20 GMT -5
Boyd disturbs me- he's all flat affect now, as if he were on the wrong anti-depressant, or possibly dissociative. Adele I've been assuming is just an ice maiden, and Topher an asocial geek, but what if the managers are being druggedor modified to have their emotions flattened?
Julia,I don't trust whoever is on the executive committee whatsoever.
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Post by Michelle on Oct 11, 2009 8:17:43 GMT -5
Written by Tim Minear. Has that BSG guy in it. Lots of "Victor" -- what is that actor's name? I need to be able to say I knew him when Joss discovered him. Yes! He's a much better actor than I originally thought. Kiki took Medieval Lit because she didn't think it would be as hard as the Advanced. Hee!! This I liked. I don't know if it's Boyd, or the actor, but he was really phoning it in. He endorsed vigilantism back when Giles killed Ben. It's the "he needed killin'" defense. I assumed those were Dollhouse operatives. Excellent point! Major ew. For me to like a show, it doesn't have to have a hero, or even especially be moral, but yes, there should be some consequences. Yes. I don't understand how Topher could tell when Victor was getting excited based on his biorhythms or whatever, but yet couldn't track him down. If he had a lock on his pulse, heart rate, etc., he has some connection to him, and therefore could pinpoint his location. That seemed like a plot hole. I also thought it was stupid that Topher took the time to call Boyd to tell him that they were going to to a re-boot of the system. Why would Boyd care? When has Topher ever taken the time to communicate with handlers about what he was doing back in the lab? I assume it was only done to move the plot forward so that Boyd would know that Kiki had turned into Terry. Lame. Also? Michael Hogan was totally wasted in this episode. His part could have been filled by anyone. I wouldn't watch this show if it was run by anyone other than Joss. |
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Post by spacecat1974 on Oct 11, 2009 13:34:48 GMT -5
Victor = Enver Gjokaj = Yum!
I'm guessing the agent he was interacting with is the guy in the attic.
And Terry hadn't killed anyone YET. And only because his family was able to get out of him the location of his kidnapees before he did manage it. This time he killed one and was then hit by a car before being discovered. Usually his family would pay the kidnapees off or extort from them in some way to keep them quiet. Since they were unable/unwilling to make sure he was receiving the help and care he needed to prevent this... I have fewer qualms than I would otherwise about his plug getting pulled. He would never have spent a day in jail, never spent a minute in any sort of therapy or received any sort of therapeutic drugs... Also makes me wonder about those women and what happened that day to make it something he dwells on sooo much.
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Post by spacecat1974 on Oct 11, 2009 13:36:03 GMT -5
And is anyone else totally creeped out by the ad at the top with Carrot Top pitching some diet and exercise scheme?
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Post by spacecat1974 on Oct 11, 2009 13:37:39 GMT -5
And Mr. Gjokaj (pronounced Jo-kay) has a twin brother... Oooohh!
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Post by Sue on Oct 11, 2009 15:57:58 GMT -5
And Mr. Gjokaj (pronounced Jo-kay) has a twin brother... Oooohh! Drool clean-up on aisle Lola! |
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