Loving Without Souls

[dr76]

In Kerrie D's essay called "Can People Love Without Souls?", the author claimed the following:

The question arises as to whether Buffy’s treatment of Spike is the action of a souled person. The simple answer is yes. Whilst it is true that she uses him for sex she never quite reaches the unsouled depths of Spike.

What exactly does she mean that Buffy never reached the "unsouled" depths of Spike? She did when she tried to rape him in "Gone". Willow reached those depths, when she cast a memory spell on Tara in "All the Way" and took advantage of Tara's lack of memory of their fight by having sex with her. Buffy has managed to consider her own personal feelings over what it right for others on several occasions.

I'm sorry, but I never accepted Whedon's definition of a soul in Buffyverse. To me, lacking a soul is simply being a zombie with no personality, will or whatsoever. Since the vampires in the series have personalities, will, and their own set of emotions, I cannot help but come to the conclusion that they have always had souls.

[S'ewing S'cubie]

Can you give me a link to that essay? I don't think I can respond without having read it.

[SpringSummers]

May 8, 2012 14:58:18 GMT -5 dr76 said:

In Kerrie D's essay called "Can People Love Without Souls?", the author claimed the following:

The question arises as to whether Buffy’s treatment of Spike is the action of a souled person. The simple answer is yes. Whilst it is true that she uses him for sex she never quite reaches the unsouled depths of Spike.

What exactly does she mean that Buffy never reached the "unsouled" depths of Spike? She did when she tried to rape him in "Gone". Willow reached those depths, when she cast a memory spell on Tara in "All the Way" and took advantage of Tara's lack of memory of their fight by having sex with her. Buffy has managed to consider her own personal feelings over what it right for others on several occasions.

My two cents:

I am guessing that she means Buffy did not murder and torture thousands of people over 100 yrs or more.

Definitely Spike is not the only character who did some very wrong things during the series, but the souless characters (like Spike and Angel and Dru) were much worse and (while souless anyhow) felt no guilt and were unrepetant (for the most part - Spike managed to feel some guilt when it had to do with Buffy or Joyce or Dawn, but when it came to anyone else, including his many former victims, he felt no guilt at all).

I'm sorry, but I never accepted Whedon's definition of a soul in Buffyverse. To me, lacking a soul is simply being a zombie with no personality, will or whatsoever. Since the vampires in the series have personalities, will, and their own set of emotions, I cannot help but come to the conclusion that they have always had souls.

Whedon's definition is definitely different from yours.

In the Buffyverse, a soul has nothing to do with personality.

It is the moral compass . . . what you can use to be able to tell right from wrong. People who have a soul in the Whedonverse may or may not use it, but they have the ability to tell right from wrong, on their own.

Spike seems to have some "leftover" ability to sense right from wrong without his soul, but mostly, he is using external cues (from Buffy, mostly) to figure it out. Before he gets his soul for example, he doesn't really understand that murder is wrong, and feels no guilt for the many deaths and the destruction he has caused.

Of course, any person has every right to believe or not believe in "the soul," and define it anyway they want to.

But if you want to understand the Buffyverse, I'd say "moral compass" is the best way to look at it.