6/15: As You Were

[Techno-bot]

Written by Douglas Petrie
Directed by Douglas Petrie
Air Date: 2/26/02

Buffy is delighted when her old boyfriend, Riley Finn, returns and asks her to help him track down a demon - but her delight turns to shock when she learns he is not alone.

[beccaelizabeth]

Nothing new to say about this one. But some definite stuff.
Buffy going to Spike, all 'tell me you love me'? I find it real difficult to like Buffy even a tiny bit there. She is using him, and it's not nice at all at all.
JM being so expressive makes a real clear story of how Spike feels about that phrase. Really is no fair using him.

Of course this is also the story where we're supposed to believe he's still the big bad.
The pretty much incompetent bad.

All I can say is, if we're supposed to believe Spike is the Doctor, either JM is losing it or he weren't told. The only reaction Spike has to that name is to ignore it and be mildly irritated at the repetition. But then they say 'eggs' and he reacts, that guilty terrible liar reaction. So I actually believe him, he's got the eggs but they're for a 'friend', probably someone promising paying him a bunch, probably someone who doesn't like him very much. Riley could get Spike's name by beating up the usual suspects, but Spike has been beating up the usual suspects too, and staking them, and all the rest, so them dropping him in it proves nothing. The eggs are proven, the 'Doctor' thing isn't. And I just don't buy it. Not his speed at all. And he'd not use that name, not after the last guy that used it.

I vaguely wonder if Andrew would. But then I realise he'd call himself the Master if he was going there. Still, dealing in demon parts semi competently, it has a certain Trio possibility.

Riley not explaining the mission makes sense only in TV logic. They had a bunch of time in a car. He only needed a sentence. It's a bit annoying.

I like the title. 'As you were' with the military connotations and with the compare and contrast with the recent past.


I do not like the clothes. It's not just the doublemeat. ("My hat has a cow" still one of the classic lines.) Something horrible, brown, and patterned seems to have ate everyone.
Spike's shirts have been going a bit horribly wrong this season. He's back in black this episode but the patterned shirt phase is unflattering.

Color coding puts Spike, Buffy, Riley and Sam in black together. Is a bit interesting. Mix and match couples wardrobe?

Buffy and guns: never helpful. Don't see why Riley would give her one. No training. Don't like that she threw it away. No sense. And as for dropping all the grenades in? Why would she think of it and not Riley? But big kabooms are of the good.

The whole thing in Spike's crypt is win. Not just the nudity and territorial display. Rearranging relationships and rearranging space. Way symbolic.

The funny about the smell was funny.


I mostly watched the episode at double speed because I don't like it enough except for the Spike bits.

I like what Xander has to say about the wedding and the marriage.
... the way that eventually works out is set up with a long run up, but it was a good line.

Makes you wonder who else is faking. Is Riley really the perfect one there? Black ops, always got to wonder what's up.

[KMInfinity]

This is a hard episode to like. Everyone is pretty unlikeable.

Bringing Riley back in the midst of Buffy's dark times is like attending the class reunion from hell. It's a pretty effective vehicle for emphasizing the changes in Buffy's life.

I always giggle at the line where Buffy and Riley reminisce and he says he has big news, and she asks, "Did you die?" "No..." "I'm gonna win."

And I do like that Riley doesn't rub it in that Buffy's at the DM Palace and sleeping with Spike. His pep talkabout the wheel always turnin' is nice, especially saying that Buffy was the strongest woman he ever knew, and a hell of a woman. She really needed to hear that from someone she'd believe.

That's countered by the fact that that Riley is very anti-Spike, rather narrowminded, and maybe certainly not the most objective person when it comes to analyzing Buffy's slayer dictated non-traditional lifestyle.

[S'ewing S'cubie]

Although there is a good bit to like here (naked Spike is always good) I find that of all the episodes in the entire series, this is the one that comes off entirely false. Buffy's misery is quite painful to see. That she would be in so much pain that she can't or won't see how badly she's treating Spike or that her encounters with him leave her feeling so debased depict her mental state with agonizing accuracy.

Contrast that with the artificial cheerfulness Xander projects to cover his terror of the upcoming marriage.

And what is Riley hiding? I suspect that if time had permitted (like another season) we would have found that Mr and Mrs Finn weren't quite so perfect a couple as we're led to believe. Sam rings false, false, false. She is SO cheerful and SO helpful and SO good.

Really. She's spent months helping Riley get over Buffy--the Slayer--the hottie--the strongest woman he's ever met--and she's not the teeniest bit uneasy? Her husband is reuniting with this person out of legend, who tore him up emotionally for so long--and who, by the way, hasn't even been told that he's married? And she's good with that?

Sam has something great to say to everyone, whether she is coming up with a very thin Shaman story for Willow or digging up the disposable camera idea for Xander and Anya (which she could not have tried out if she and Riley did in fact get married on a helicopter on their way to a mission). Something is really, really wrong with this girl. I wish we could have found out what it was.

Spike as The Doctor is ridiculous. Spike as the lovesick dupe who was conned into holding the eggs in exchange for cash--which he might be planning to give to the financially desperate Buffy--is far more like it. I've read more than one essay suggesting that Riley actually set Spike up. The essays gave credence to the feeling that something else was happening in this episode that we never got to see.

How did Riley know where to find Buffy and how unsurprised was he?

I was uncomfortable the first time I saw this one and on this viewing I find my discomfort has grown.

[leftylady]

Jul 30, 2009 8:53:10 GMT -5 S'ewing S'cubie said:

Although there is a good bit to like here (naked Spike is always good) I find that of all the episodes in the entire series, this is the one that comes off entirely false. Buffy's misery is quite painful to see. That she would be in so much pain that she can't or won't see how badly she's treating Spike or that her encounters with him leave her feeling so debased depict her mental state with agonizing accuracy.

Contrast that with the artificial cheerfulness Xander projects to cover his terror of the upcoming marriage.

And what is Riley hiding? I suspect that if time had permitted (like another season) we would have found that Mr and Mrs Finn weren't quite so perfect a couple as we're led to believe. Sam rings false, false, false. She is SO cheerful and SO helpful and SO good.

Really. She's spent months helping Riley get over Buffy--the Slayer--the hottie--the strongest woman he's ever met--and she's not the teeniest bit uneasy? Her husband is reuniting with this person out of legend, who tore him up emotionally for so long--and who, by the way, hasn't even been told that he's married? And she's good with that?

Sam has something great to say to everyone, whether she is coming up with a very thin Shaman story for Willow or digging up the disposable camera idea for Xander and Anya (which she could not have tried out if she and Riley did in fact get married on a helicopter on their way to a mission). Something is really, really wrong with this girl. I wish we could have found out what it was.

Spike as The Doctor is ridiculous. Spike as the lovesick dupe who was conned into holding the eggs in exchange for cash--which he might be planning to give to the financially desperate Buffy--is far more like it. I've read more than one essay suggesting that Riley actually set Spike up. The essays gave credence to the feeling that something else was happening in this episode that we never got to see.

How did Riley know where to find Buffy and how unsurprised was he?

I was uncomfortable the first time I saw this one and on this viewing I find my discomfort has grown.

I know what you mean about the false notes or maybe just the execution of the idea. One essay I remember seeing years ago, portraying this episode strictly as Buffy-POV in regards to the overheroic Riley and the super perfect-Sam helps somewhat. But again it's the execution, if it were filmed more with an exagerated Buffy-cam, at least on certain scenes about her insecurity about Riley, Sam and current state, it might have helped. What can you take as matter of fact audience POV, and what was only really part of Buffy's internal reactions?

Still doesn;t explain Spike as the Doctor.

leftylady

[Lola m]

The complex world of Machiavelli’s The Doublemeat Palace.

Dissed by random dead-smelling vamp. That’s gotta hurt.

Tree-sexin’. Oh, Buffy. Each of these unhappy sex scenes just make me think you seriously need to embrace the enjoyment! Well, and also the going out. You can’t begin to engage and become involved happily with the world again if you don’t try to find the good in the big and small goodnesses of life.

Dawn – so invested in the ideas of happy coupledom. Especially mom-Tara.

Good job with making us really feel, really remember what it’s like when you hit those moments when it all seems to be wrong. It’s not usually one big horrible event that crushes you, it’s the piling up of all the little moments. And, of course, it’s true that this is also inevitably when you run into that friend (or ex) who is just rolling in happiness. Or at least apparently so.

Interesting how Dawn appears to be doing better now that her secret has been discovered and she is put on a schedule to make things right, taking responsibility and so on.

Oh, Riley. How can Buffy not dream of escaping off into exiting adventures with you? **takes a moment to giggle over the “wild bear” line**

You know, I’m not sure if I actively noticed before how very hard Riley is trying to impress her in this ep . . .

Heeee! Xander’s wonderful horrible circle of life analogy. Also? The two of them really look accurately stressed and ready to snap.

“Hold on to me.” “If that’s what it takes.” Oooooh, meaningful comment much?

Aaaaaaaaand here comes the wife, right on schedule. And the whole scenario is even more jealous-making because the new wife is also an excellent fighter who goes monster chasing with him, so Buffy’s experiences with him are no longer special that way.

Yay! Angry!Dawn face and Willow-hate.

New wife is also trying hard to impress. Not as hard as Riley, but still. And she’s more honest about it.

“Don’t want to be defined by the guy I’m with.” Yeah, you really don’t want that. And not for the reasons you are thinking of, Buffy!

Oh this scene always kills me.
“Tell me you love me.”
“I love you. You know I do.”
“Tell me you want me.”
“I always want you. In point of fact . . “
“Shut up.”
That’s just so so very them. It tells you everything about what each of them want from this and how each of them see the other.

Also, what follows with Riley is so very very painful for each of them. In more than one way.

No more games. Ouch! Spike is wrong about the eggs and lying about them and so on, but he’s also right about the rest of what he’s saying, Buffy.

And now we see Xander and Anya who are much much better about lying to each other and themselves than even Buffy and Spike and Riley.

Does Buffy want Riley to kill Spike. Seriously dude. Did you really think that was a good question to ask?

Hmmmmmm. “It doesn’t touch you.” I mean, in some ways Riley’s speech is a good one, very affirming. But also . . . there’s a touch of putting her on a pedestal. Which trait he actually shares with both Spike and Angel. Hmmmm. Coincidence?

Full circle helicopter leaving.

Heeee! I’ve always loved Willow’s little “what a bitch” at the end there.

Oh, Buffy’s ouchie speech. True and painful and just so very her.

[Lola m]

Jul 29, 2009 9:11:46 GMT -5 beccaelizabeth said:

Nothing new to say about this one. But some definite stuff.
Buffy going to Spike, all 'tell me you love me'? I find it real difficult to like Buffy even a tiny bit there. She is using him, and it's not nice at all at all.
JM being so expressive makes a real clear story of how Spike feels about that phrase. Really is no fair using him.

It really is the most painful thing she could ask him. It shows the depth of her need that she would do it. And it shows the depth of his in his response.

Of course this is also the story where we're supposed to believe he's still the big bad.
The pretty much incompetent bad.

;D Yeah.

All I can say is, if we're supposed to believe Spike is the Doctor, either JM is losing it or he weren't told. The only reaction Spike has to that name is to ignore it and be mildly irritated at the repetition. But then they say 'eggs' and he reacts, that guilty terrible liar reaction. So I actually believe him, he's got the eggs but they're for a 'friend', probably someone promising paying him a bunch, probably someone who doesn't like him very much. Riley could get Spike's name by beating up the usual suspects, but Spike has been beating up the usual suspects too, and staking them, and all the rest, so them dropping him in it proves nothing. The eggs are proven, the 'Doctor' thing isn't. And I just don't buy it. Not his speed at all. And he'd not use that name, not after the last guy that used it.

Yeah, I tend to think he is even more "incompetant" than Riley and Buffy think. Because, yeah, I doubt that he has pulled together a plan to sell the eggs to some other government. I'm betting he is just one player, and frankly, probably a somewhat duped player.

I vaguely wonder if Andrew would. But then I realise he'd call himself the Master if he was going there. Still, dealing in demon parts semi competently, it has a certain Trio possibility.

Ha!

Riley not explaining the mission makes sense only in TV logic. They had a bunch of time in a car. He only needed a sentence. It's a bit annoying.

I put it down to him trying so hard to be Mr. Suave-Cool-Guy that he kind of forgets how to do his job well at first.

I like the title. 'As you were' with the military connotations and with the compare and contrast with the recent past.

And it's suggestion of questioning if you really know how you were before and if you really know what you're like now.

I do not like the clothes. It's not just the doublemeat. ("My hat has a cow" still one of the classic lines.) Something horrible, brown, and patterned seems to have ate everyone.
Spike's shirts have been going a bit horribly wrong this season. He's back in black this episode but the patterned shirt phase is unflattering.

Color coding puts Spike, Buffy, Riley and Sam in black together. Is a bit interesting. Mix and match couples wardrobe?

Buffy and guns: never helpful. Don't see why Riley would give her one. No training. Don't like that she threw it away. No sense. And as for dropping all the grenades in? Why would she think of it and not Riley? But big kabooms are of the good.

The whole thing in Spike's crypt is win. Not just the nudity and territorial display. Rearranging relationships and rearranging space. Way symbolic.

And blowing up the bedroom and then the break-up scene in the midst of the exploded bed stuff? **nods**

The funny about the smell was funny.


I mostly watched the episode at double speed because I don't like it enough except for the Spike bits.

I like what Xander has to say about the wedding and the marriage.
... the way that eventually works out is set up with a long run up, but it was a good line.

It was a very good line. And true, which is why the wedding ends up getting called off, IMHO.

Makes you wonder who else is faking. Is Riley really the perfect one there? Black ops, always got to wonder what's up.

Methinks they're all pretending a bit. And no one is the perfect one.

[Lola m]

Jul 29, 2009 17:15:38 GMT -5 KMInfinity said:

This is a hard episode to like. Everyone is pretty unlikeable.

Bringing Riley back in the midst of Buffy's dark times is like attending the class reunion from hell. It's a pretty effective vehicle for emphasizing the changes in Buffy's life.

OMG, yes! With the posing and the uncomfortable and the comparisons!

I always giggle at the line where Buffy and Riley reminisce and he says he has big news, and she asks, "Did you die?" "No..." "I'm gonna win."

And I do like that Riley doesn't rub it in that Buffy's at the DM Palace and sleeping with Spike. His pep talkabout the wheel always turnin' is nice, especially saying that Buffy was the strongest woman he ever knew, and a hell of a woman. She really needed to hear that from someone she'd believe.

She definitely needed a reminder that things will change, that she can do something with the life she's been brought back to.

That's countered by the fact that that Riley is very anti-Spike, rather narrowminded, and maybe certainly not the most objective person when it comes to analyzing Buffy's slayer dictated non-traditional lifestyle.

;D You said it, sister!

[Lola m]

Jul 30, 2009 8:53:10 GMT -5 S'ewing S'cubie said:

Although there is a good bit to like here (naked Spike is always good) I find that of all the episodes in the entire series, this is the one that comes off entirely false. Buffy's misery is quite painful to see. That she would be in so much pain that she can't or won't see how badly she's treating Spike or that her encounters with him leave her feeling so debased depict her mental state with agonizing accuracy.

**nods** This is her "hitting bottom" moment. And how very accurate to have it come to a head due to a series of small moments of misery.

Contrast that with the artificial cheerfulness Xander projects to cover his terror of the upcoming marriage.

I thought it was absolute genius to have the secondary story of Xander and Anya be paired with Riley's return.

And what is Riley hiding? I suspect that if time had permitted (like another season) we would have found that Mr and Mrs Finn weren't quite so perfect a couple as we're led to believe. Sam rings false, false, false. She is SO cheerful and SO helpful and SO good.

**nods** I think we're meant to see that Sam and Riley's apparent perfectness is just as "not the full story" as Buffy's apparent loser-ness. And that's why we're not supposed to take the surface of Xander and Anya (hyper about wedding but rock solid underneath) at face value either. All these relationships are being compared for a reason, me thinks.

Really. She's spent months helping Riley get over Buffy--the Slayer--the hottie--the strongest woman he's ever met--and she's not the teeniest bit uneasy? Her husband is reuniting with this person out of legend, who tore him up emotionally for so long--and who, by the way, hasn't even been told that he's married? And she's good with that?

Sam has something great to say to everyone, whether she is coming up with a very thin Shaman story for Willow or digging up the disposable camera idea for Xander and Anya (which she could not have tried out if she and Riley did in fact get married on a helicopter on their way to a mission). Something is really, really wrong with this girl. I wish we could have found out what it was.

Spike as The Doctor is ridiculous. Spike as the lovesick dupe who was conned into holding the eggs in exchange for cash--which he might be planning to give to the financially desperate Buffy--is far more like it. I've read more than one essay suggesting that Riley actually set Spike up. The essays gave credence to the feeling that something else was happening in this episode that we never got to see.

How did Riley know where to find Buffy and how unsurprised was he?

I was uncomfortable the first time I saw this one and on this viewing I find my discomfort has grown.

It's an ouchie ep in many ways.

[Spaced Out Looney]

So...rewatching this, all I can think is: what a bizarre episode.

I just can't decide whether it's intentionally bizarre or not. There's no "tell" that I could see, like there is in The Zeppo, for example. Honestly, I just don't get it.