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Post by Techno-bot on Jun 14, 2004 10:46:51 GMT -5
Written By: Joss Whedon
Directed By: David Solomon & Joss Whedon
Air date: 9/24/02
Dawn's first day of high school on the hellmouth.
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Post by LadyDi on Jun 3, 2006 0:47:44 GMT -5
Okay...being something of a wuss, it took me forever to finally get around to watching s7 w/commentary. I knew at least some of it would upset me greatly (and I was right). One thing that bothered me was something Joss said about this ep. He briefly mentioned Buffy's dishonesty (re: she didn't tell anyone how she knew about the talisman), but he doesn't elaborate on it at all.
It would have been nice to know how he felt about Buffy's dishonesty, or if he didn't think she really was that dishonest, or whatever. I found her repeated dishonesty to be one of her least attractive characteristics (and her secretiveness, and her possesiveness/jealousy). But Joss just glosses right over it. Phooey!
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Jun 3, 2006 6:46:05 GMT -5
Okay...being something of a wuss, it took me forever to finally get around to watching s7 w/commentary. I knew at least some of it would upset me greatly (and I was right). One thing that bothered me was something Joss said about this ep. He briefly mentioned Buffy's dishonesty (re: she didn't tell anyone how she knew about the talisman), but he doesn't elaborate on it at all. It would have been nice to know how he felt about Buffy's dishonesty, or if he didn't think she really was that dishonest, or whatever. I found her repeated dishonesty to be one of her least attractive characteristics (and her secretiveness, and her possesiveness/jealousy). But Joss just glosses right over it. Phooey! I got from his tone that he didn't approve of it. That he was aware of it being one of her major flaws. "she's back to her old tricks of lies and deception" or some such thing. |
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Post by Lola m on Jun 3, 2006 13:05:28 GMT -5
Okay...being something of a wuss, it took me forever to finally get around to watching s7 w/commentary. I knew at least some of it would upset me greatly (and I was right). One thing that bothered me was something Joss said about this ep. He briefly mentioned Buffy's dishonesty (re: she didn't tell anyone how she knew about the talisman), but he doesn't elaborate on it at all. It would have been nice to know how he felt about Buffy's dishonesty, or if he didn't think she really was that dishonest, or whatever. I found her repeated dishonesty to be one of her least attractive characteristics (and her secretiveness, and her possesiveness/jealousy). But Joss just glosses right over it. Phooey! I got from his tone that he didn't approve of it. That he was aware of it being one of her major flaws. "she's back to her old tricks of lies and deception" or some such thing. I haven't watched with commentary yet either, mostly due to time . . . of which I never have enough!  I have to admit that I usually love Joss' commentaries, but primarily because he usually talks about the stuff that not many other commenters do. Like camera angles or shot/scene choices, etc. But I wouldn't be surprised it you are right in Joss' feelings about Buffy's actions here, Liz. Man - I have to pop the DVDs in again sometime soon. I've been enjoying the feeling of watching regularly through the seasons by DVRing FX's morning showing of eps each day, but their editing still bugs the crap out of me and you don't get those DVD "extras" - like commentary. |
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Post by Queen E on Jun 10, 2006 23:06:58 GMT -5
Okay...being something of a wuss, it took me forever to finally get around to watching s7 w/commentary. I knew at least some of it would upset me greatly (and I was right). One thing that bothered me was something Joss said about this ep. He briefly mentioned Buffy's dishonesty (re: she didn't tell anyone how she knew about the talisman), but he doesn't elaborate on it at all. It would have been nice to know how he felt about Buffy's dishonesty, or if he didn't think she really was that dishonest, or whatever. I found her repeated dishonesty to be one of her least attractive characteristics (and her secretiveness, and her possesiveness/jealousy). But Joss just glosses right over it. Phooey! I got from his tone that he didn't approve of it. That he was aware of it being one of her major flaws. "she's back to her old tricks of lies and deception" or some such thing. I never really thought of it as "lies and deception." It seemed to always strike me as more "compartmentalizing what I can't deal with." Given the reaction of those around her to some of the choices she'd made, I can understand why chose to gloss over certain things. And omitting the truth is not the same as lying. With Spike in the basement, I think she was so thrown by the fact that he was there and what could possibly be making him act that way, that she didn't really feel like bringing other people into it. And, in her further defense, she obviously was more upfront with everyone regarding Spike after the events of "Beneath You." |
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Jun 11, 2006 7:06:41 GMT -5
I got from his tone that he didn't approve of it. That he was aware of it being one of her major flaws. "she's back to her old tricks of lies and deception" or some such thing. I never really thought of it as "lies and deception." It seemed to always strike me as more "compartmentalizing what I can't deal with." Given the reaction of those around her to some of the choices she'd made, I can understand why chose to gloss over certain things. And omitting the truth is not the same as lying. With Spike in the basement, I think she was so thrown by the fact that he was there and what could possibly be making him act that way, that she didn't really feel like bringing other people into it. And, in her further defense, she obviously was more upfront with everyone regarding Spike after the events of "Beneath You." For what it's worth, that was a quote or close to what Whedon said on the commentary. Dawn asked 2 direct questions that Buffy evaded, once about who it was when Dawn heard Spike on Buffy's phone during their phone call, and the second time when Dawn asked how Buffy knew about the talisman (and Buffy didn't give Spike credit for helping, grr). That to me is different than if Buffy had just failed to mention that she ran into Spike when she was down in the basement. I agree with everything else you say. |
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Post by Onjel on Jun 13, 2006 15:52:28 GMT -5
I got from his tone that he didn't approve of it. That he was aware of it being one of her major flaws. "she's back to her old tricks of lies and deception" or some such thing. I never really thought of it as "lies and deception." It seemed to always strike me as more "compartmentalizing what I can't deal with." Given the reaction of those around her to some of the choices she'd made, I can understand why chose to gloss over certain things. And omitting the truth is not the same as lying. With Spike in the basement, I think she was so thrown by the fact that he was there and what could possibly be making him act that way, that she didn't really feel like bringing other people into it. And, in her further defense, she obviously was more upfront with everyone regarding Spike after the events of "Beneath You." I agree with you, Erin. I saw Buffy's choices as a deferment of facing the Spike who was acting crazy in favor of dealing with the issues at hand, i.e. getting the hell out of the basement in one piece. Pretty much everyone knew what happened in "Seeing Red" and it seems to me that Buffy wanted to delay that particular reckoning and avoid the running off of certain persons half-cocked, before she could process Spike's return and how to handle him herself. After all, dealing with Spike after the events of Seeing Red was her prerogative, not Xander's or Dawn's or anyone else's. I also agree with your assessment of her motivation. |
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Post by Kate (K8) on Jun 25, 2009 16:24:04 GMT -5
It's interesting all the emphasis on "real" in this episode:
Buffy says "It's always real", which dawn repeats but later Buffy asks Spike if he's real just before getting clonked on the head. Also, I think someone already mentioned about Spike being a real boy now (with foreshadowing in OMWF)
Also, like in season 6 the last clip in the credits is not the Real Buffy but an impersonator (Buffy Bot and First Evil). I find that kind of ironic. I'll have to check out the other seasons credits some time to see if there is anything similar.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Sept 22, 2010 20:23:47 GMT -5
I can't believe I never noticed it before, but First!Warren says, "She's a girl! full of sugar and spice, which are useless unless you're baking," which connects to Buffy's cookie dough speech in Chosen.
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