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Post by Sue on Oct 22, 2003 13:34:26 GMT -5
BTW--guys (you are guys?). Dave and Vlad over on the Part 56 1/2 thread under "Soulful Spike Society (Main)" say "hi"--something about beer and monster truck rallies. (We've had about a 20:1 female to male posting ratio for a while so they are happy to welcome all y-chromosone persons.)
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Post by batmankm on Oct 22, 2003 13:36:27 GMT -5
Hi, KM. Glad you liked my review. Even more glad you brought up your own points independently in argument. The fact that I say a thing doesn't mean it's so...it only means I've thought about it and can specify the reasons for my coming to the conclusions I have. Others may interpret that same evidence differently. Only the development of the episodes, and the series, will tell if I've read the evidence more or less correctly.
Thinking for yourself, having your own take on the evidence (whether we end up agreeing or not), will further everyone's enjoyment of this fine series. Hope to see you posting again, whether in support of my conclusions or challenging them. Both make interesting conversation. [/color] [/quote] Sounds great! Glad to join in. I couldnt agree more KM
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Post by DaveCrenshaw on Oct 22, 2003 13:39:07 GMT -5
I wanted to take a moment to welcome our newest nubies to the board. I don't know if you've had a chance to wander around our S'cubie facilities beyond just this one episodic discussion, but you are most invited to do so. I've enjoyed reading the insights provided by our newest visitors so much, I really want to encourage you to also check out our main SSS thread where the discussion is more generic in nature, rather than limited to a specific episode like here. Not that you are somehow required to check it out -- frankly, if you're happy here, I hope you continue to remain happy and continue to enjoy reading and discussing Nan's reviews. Just letting you know that world of the S'cubies is a big one, one that's getting bigger every day, and you are invited to explore and particpate in every square inch of it that excites you.
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Post by batmankm on Oct 22, 2003 13:40:55 GMT -5
BTW--guys (you are guys?). Dave and Vlad over on the Part 56 1/2 thread under "Soulful Spike Society (Main)" say "hi"--something about beer and monster truck rallies. (We've had about a 20:1 female to male posting ratio for a while so they are happy to welcome all y-chromosone persons.) Finally that chromosone is getting me some positive press and not just into trouble Glad to join in. KM
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Post by Len on Oct 22, 2003 13:44:22 GMT -5
By jove, I think he's got it. (And I really, really am going to delete all my off-topic posts when we're done so as not to clutter up Nan's discussion thread.--I'll do it within the next hour.) BTW--guys (you are guys?). Dave and Vlad over on the Part 56 1/2 thread under "Soulful Spike Society (Main)" say "hi"--something about beer and monster truck rallies. (We've had about a 20:1 female to male posting ratio for a while so they are happy to welcome all y-chromosone persons.) 20:1?! Ye Gods! I'll be right over!! ;D
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Post by Nan-S'cubie Mascot on Oct 22, 2003 13:46:38 GMT -5
Inasmuch as I'm in charge of this discussion thread, I can take out any posts that are strictly "learning experiences." (Now I have, and edited some others.)
If you go down to the bottom, on the right, there's a box that says Forum Jump. Open that up, and there's the topic "General Board Help and FAQ." Switching to that (by clicking on it) and then reading it may give answers to some of the n'ubie's questions. You'll notice that one of the "forums" is "Main." The highest numbered thread there, always at the top, is the current general discussion thread where most of the talk happens and where we hang out most of the time. Drop in there to say HI!
And N'ubies, when you're trying to post ("post"="reply"), notice that you have a preview button in the middle. If you want to check that a quote (or anything else) is coming out right, hit preview and it will show you how what you've keyboarded will display and still allow you to make changes/corrections before you actually post it.
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Post by batmankm on Oct 22, 2003 14:13:39 GMT -5
I wanted to take a moment to welcome our newest nubies to the board. I don't know if you've had a chance to wander around our S'cubie facilities beyond just this one episodic discussion, but you are most invited to do so. I've enjoyed reading the insights provided by our newest visitors so much, I really want to encourage you to also check out our main SSS thread where the discussion is more generic in nature, rather than limited to a specific episode like here. Not that you are somehow required to check it out -- frankly, if you're happy here, I hope you continue to remain happy and continue to enjoy reading and discussing Nan's reviews. Just letting you know that world of the S'cubies is a big one, one that's getting bigger every day, and you are invited to explore and particpate in every square inch of it that excites you. Thanks I will definitely check it out and Im sure Len will too. Its nice to receive such a warm welcome from everyone. You have a great board here and Im looking forward to exploring it more fully and participating more widely. KM
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Post by Karen on Oct 22, 2003 14:34:07 GMT -5
Hey before i forget I echo what my friend Len said, thanks for the welcome to the board. looking forward to lots of discussion. KM I just wanted to add my humble welcome to you and Len. Great discussion! I look forward to much more from both of you, and all the n'ubies on the board. For the record, if anyone is keeping track, I too think that Angel is the center - the essential father/boss figure. If he isn't holding it together, everything *will* fall apart. I do think that the scene at the end emphasized the fact that the Fang Gang is a family - and will be there to support each other. Whether they invite Spike into that family remains to be seen (I believe they will). Maybe we'll have a neat Thanksgiving dinner scene, with Spike as the *Indian* guest. But then again, that's been done.
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Post by Kerrie on Nov 18, 2003 17:09:42 GMT -5
A great review Nan. I really enjoyed it, particularly the image of Spike as Angel's canary. I found the whole episode disquietening. It did not help that I saw it back-to-back with episode 4. I have nothing specific to say about it, because it has blurred with episode 4, but I did notice the Buffy-look-alike. It took a while but Angel learned from Cordelia to take money not affection from the "victims". This was "In the Dark", I think and Spike also commented on Angel's predisposition to taking emotional pay instead of physical. Spike and Cordelia were tarred with the same brush to a large extent, but it was interesting to me that Angel and the others were thinking of Nina as a possible girl-friend for Angel. Was this because she was a monster too and therefore suitable (in addition to her Buffy-like qualities)? I don't know this seemed to me to be wrong. Exploitative? The girl was vulnerable and would not have met Angel if he hadn't rescued her and now he is forcing her to come back to him every month. It just had an icky feel. I know Nina consented and was interested in Angel and even the FG were so oblivious to propriteies that they encouraged Angel to think of Nina as a potential girl-friend rather than as a vitim . . . Please note I am not blaming Angel just making an observation. I suspect that it is an observation that would have eluded me if I had not studied psychology and been up with the ethics of professional helpers being romantically interested in their patients (victims). This is a modern notion of ethical behaviour.
By the way. I loved Len's take on the episode. I suspect that Nan and KM are right, but I loved Len's take. I think that JW's formula is so well used that it is easy to see it and not so easy to even notice his superficial efforts at creating something different (i.e. that the FG are still close-knit and not being eaten by W&H).
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Post by Nan-S'cubie Mascot on Nov 18, 2003 21:02:27 GMT -5
A great review Nan. I really enjoyed it, particularly the image of Spike as Angel's canary. I found the whole episode disquietening. It did not help that I saw it back-to-back with episode 4. I have nothing specific to say about it, because it has blurred with episode 4, but I did notice the Buffy-look-alike. It took a while but Angel learned from Cordelia to take money not affection from the "victims". This was "In the Dark", I think and Spike also commented on Angel's predisposition to taking emotional pay instead of physical. Spike and Cordelia were tarred with the same brush to a large extent, but it was interesting to me that Angel and the others were thinking of Nina as a possible girl-friend for Angel. Was this because she was a monster too and therefore suitable (in addition to her Buffy-like qualities)? I don't know this seemed to me to be wrong. Exploitative? The girl was vulnerable and would not have met Angel if he hadn't rescued her and now he is forcing her to come back to him every month. It just had an icky feel. I know Nina consented and was interested in Angel and even the FG were so oblivious to propriteies that they encouraged Angel to think of Nina as a potential girl-friend rather than as a vitim . . . Please note I am not blaming Angel just making an observation. I suspect that it is an observation that would have eluded me if I had not studied psychology and been up with the ethics of professional helpers being romantically interested in their patients (victims). This is a modern notion of ethical behaviour. By the way. I loved Len's take on the episode. I suspect that Nan and KM are right, but I loved Len's take. I think that JW's formula is so well used that it is easy to see it and not so easy to even notice his superficial efforts at creating something different (i.e. that the FG are still close-knit and not being eaten by W&H). We usually all see the same evidence (i.e., the episode). How we choose to weight and interpret that evidence is rightly an individual matter. Provided that one has looked at and evaluated the available evidence as best one can, then it's entirely possible for reasonable people to reach different conclusions based on the same evidence. Each episode gives us new evidence to add to the old on certain points. If the Fang Gang becomes increasingly closer and more effective, then that's evidence that the meals that bracket this ep are them resisting W&H's influence and becoming more unified. If they are increasingly separated, that would support the idea that the togetherness here is more apparent and token than real, and the ceremony of eating together shows things getting worse for them. In the meantime, we'll all watch and learn and think...and discuss. Which is what makes this fun!
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