|
Post by makd on Oct 31, 2003 12:44:04 GMT -5
Spin the Bottle was an Angel episode (i.e., AtS, last season). I don't recollect any comparable or similar ep on BtVS except Tabula Rasa, which didn't involve bottles.... Didn't know about the Angel Spin the Bottle. The writers must have enjoyed that game in their youths! I was referring to the spin the bottle game in Season 4 BtVS - Where the Wild Things Are.
|
|
|
Post by Nan-S'cubie Mascot on Oct 31, 2003 12:51:32 GMT -5
Didn't know about the Angel Spin the Bottle. The writers must have enjoyed that game in their youths! I was referring to the spin the bottle game in Season 4 BtVS - Where the Wild Things Are. Thanks for the clarification, makd. I know I saw the ep sometime, but I'd forgotten the spin the bottle component.
|
|
|
Post by makd on Oct 31, 2003 12:53:17 GMT -5
Someone in a recent interview (it was either Joss, Fury or Jeff Bell... can't remember who at the moment) described Gunn this season as "Angel's second-in-command", which would certainly be a change from the last few seasons. Even granting that Wes is no longer the "leader" and Angel the "employee", I would have thought Wes would get second billing. Gunn was never really the "upper management" type. But obviously the transformation he's undergone puts him in a whole different category. So while I'm not sure that Gunn himself feels this way just yet, I think it's entirely possible that we've got some foreshadowing of some kind of power struggle between the two. I also think that the marking of territory ties in with the whole cat motif with Gunn. Cats big and small are actually just as prone to marking territory with scent, urine in particular, as dogs... moreso in fact. Oh, and thanks for the welcome. Glad to be here. My invitation to Nan is open to everyone... come check us out. Haunt www.bigbad.netGreetings, Haunt! I've enjoyed your comments on the BBB, and you are so welcomed here! Elsewhere here I've written about the following, so I hope I don't bore anyone: In corporate America, the desire is for lawyers, not ethicists and scholars. Hence, the moving up of Gunn and the downplaying of Wesley. (Hello, Enron!) In moving Gunn to 2nd place, Angel's team now mirrors corporate America. The scholars and ethicists are now in research and development, and the lawyers are in the front lines. Hell, that's one of the things wrong with corporate America -- all bottom line, no thought about the morality of the issue.... I think, as the season evolves, we may seen an alliance between Fred, Wesley, and Spike....with MAYBE Lorne in there, too. Not too sure, though. Unless Lorne learns to sleep and take it easy, he may be corrupted by the glamour of his new job. And Gunn? well, he bears watching. very closely. Haven't watched too many Angel episodes, but I have learned that he's not trusting of lawyers.
|
|
|
Post by makd on Oct 31, 2003 12:59:36 GMT -5
Just a quick 'nother thought:
Gunn's transformation reminds me of other transformations I've seen in the last 35 years of work: Young college grads enter corporate/professional life, fresh, new, hungry, often from the non-middle class. They are willing and eager to sell their souls to the corporation in exchange for the status, $$, perks, and goodies of upper-middle class life. That's really what Gunn is, IMHO, going through. He's young, he's willing to work hard, he's smart, he thinks he's on the right track, and doing the right thing, and he's cashing in.
I really want to follow his story this season....It's gonna be a good ride. You know, as the mayor said, a soul is a slippery thing....
|
|
|
Post by Laura on Oct 31, 2003 13:20:20 GMT -5
As usual, Nan, a great review. A hard episode though, since so much of it, seemingly shallow, was actually deeper in meaning. Lots of questions from the episode: What does "morale" mean, anyway? In a large comany, how important is morale? Why should companies spend $$ on morale-building endeavors? <snip> Morale is crucial in big companies -- particularly in big law firms. Ordinarily (that is, in a good economy), firm management is always concerned about losing young talent to other firms. They have several ways of ensuring that they keep their good people. One of those ways is to pay buckets of money (don't get me started on why this was oh-so-bad for my chosen profession -- it would take a couple of pages to explain).
Another way of retaining people is to make the firm the BEST place to be -- the whole "quality-of-life" argument. "Yes, we don't pay as much as Dewey Screw-em & Howe or Huge Cupboards & Greed, but we don't work you to death, either." Believe me, that can be WAY more important to the associates and staff -- they want to know that they are valued employees, not just fungible bodies.
So morale is VERY important at firms. And believe me, firms in the real world do exactly what W&H does (except it's generally not a Halloween party). There's usually one big formal dinner/dance for the firm's attorneys and their spouses/spousal equivalents; there's the "holiday party" at the end of the year for everybody (no spouses/spousal equivalents); there may be any number of cocktail receptions for particular clients (and believe me -- attendance at those is MANDATORY, and you are very much ON all night); and then, of course, there's the "summer program" -- which is a whole separate program designed to make second-year law students have so much fun that they want to come back as full-time associates once they graduate.
And you don't want to know how much firms spend on these things.
Of course, in a bad economy, morale sucks because the firms eliminate all these things -- and then they start eliminating people (though not quite the way Angel does).
Part of Angel's deal with the devil Senior Partners is that he has to keep W&H profitable. Which means he has to keep the attorneys and staff happy, and which means he has to keep the W&H clients reassured that they will continue to get the level of service to which they have become accustomed.
So yeah. Morale is VERY important. Keeping clients happy is VERY important. The schmoozy thing is VERY important. This episode got all that stuff NAILED.
Nan -- another fine job.
|
|
|
Post by Haunt on Oct 31, 2003 13:54:06 GMT -5
Morale is crucial in big companies -- particularly in big law firms.
Laura is absolutely correct. My better half is an attorney in a very big southern law firm, and the politics that go on in that society are staggering. I wasn't really puzzled by Lorne's explanation of keeping morale high at all.
|
|
|
Post by Patti - S'cubie Cutie on Oct 31, 2003 14:10:06 GMT -5
I finally had a chance to read your review Nan. Congratulations, you managed to find something substantive to talk about, which I think must have been really difficult this week. This episode, while 'cute' with lots of funny bits, didn't quite satisfy like the previous ones have, but you did a good job with the material, which is all that can be asked! I also noticed that 'after you' business with Spike and Lorne in the office and thought...'hmmm...must be getting SOME corporealizin' going on, or he would walk right through'. But isn't this the second episode we haven't seen the mail cart guy? I think you yourself mentioned last week (on the board I think) that he didn't show up in Hellbound. I do think he's significant, (unspoiled, here) which is why I quibble. Again, a very enjoyable read, Nan, thanks!
|
|
|
Post by makd on Oct 31, 2003 18:52:58 GMT -5
Laura is absolutely correct. My better half is an attorney in a very big southern law firm, and the politics that go on in that society are staggering. I wasn't really puzzled by Lorne's explanation of keeping morale high at all. Ditto for academia. In fact, the motto I keep hearing about working in academia (30 year veteran here) is: the money is s--t, but the politics are top-notch!
|
|
|
Post by Nickim on Oct 31, 2003 19:08:21 GMT -5
Welcome Haunt! I checked out your website (and bookmarked it). Pretty dang cool! Thanks for coming over and checking us out. Nan's reviews are very cool, no? I think we're seeing a gradual transformation of Gunn. Angel's being "more of a dog person" really fits with the whole struggle for dominance scenario. In this ep, Spike makes a comment about liking Angel's desk. I don't know how that fits in. Just something to ponder. I see Angel's desk as a symbol of power, which ALL the guys seem to want. I definitely agree with everyone who has said we're being set up for a big power struggle later this season. He rules the W&H world from behind that desk. Wonder what it says about him that he had sex behind the desk instead of going to his apartment, which is apparently in the penthouse of the office building, or at least that was the idea I got when he went to shower.
|
|
|
Post by Nickim on Oct 31, 2003 19:44:32 GMT -5
I see Angel's desk as a symbol of power, which ALL the guys seem to want. I definitely agree with everyone who has said we're being set up for a big power struggle later this season. He rules the W&H world from behind that desk. Wonder what it says about him that he had sex behind the desk instead of going to his apartment, which is apparently in the penthouse of the office building, or at least that was the idea I got when he went to shower. Answering my own musing... Angel having sex behind the desk would seem to indicate that even in a moment of release he still needs to be in control. Whether to control Angelus or Eve remains to be seen.
|
|
|
Post by Nan-S'cubie Mascot on Oct 31, 2003 22:23:34 GMT -5
Answering my own musing... Angel having sex behind the desk would seem to indicate that even in a moment of release he still needs to be in control. Whether to control Angelus or Eve remains to be seen. I think all the sex was on the couch, not behind the desk.
|
|
|
Post by Nickim on Oct 31, 2003 22:45:59 GMT -5
I think all the sex was on the couch, not behind the desk. I was wrong. When everyone bursts in on Angel & Eve they're on the floor behind the couch not the desk. When Angel says that he & Eve will stay and have more sex, they dive behind the couch and that's where they are when Sebassis comes in.
|
|
|
Post by KMInfinity on Nov 1, 2003 11:35:04 GMT -5
Excellent review, Nan... I am so impressed with the posting here. As a n'ubie, and having surfed for awhile to find a good site relating to Buffy/Angel/Spike, I want to compliment the reviewers and posters. I've not contributed much, because I am still wallowing in back reviews and posts. I've only seen Season 1 of Angel so far, and hope to get caught up via FX and Christmas DVD's So... While I really find the analyses of the inner workings of W&H and how the FG fits in very enlightening, I am concerned that JW and ME may be making a mistake with the satire/metaphors for corporate America. Even if very well done, in a creative and intelligent way, will the general Angel audience appreciate the story arc? Since I missed (so far) the development of the characters (indeed, whole characters such as Fred and Lorne) since Season 1, I'm not qualified to assess this plot twist. I'd like to hear from some old timers. Will the general Angel audience buy into the FG being inside W&H? Or will they resent the focus on the corporate theme? Or will Spike's presence alleviate some of that problem? I ask because, from what I'm reading here and elsewhere, this isn't a fan fav episode. I assume Angel's Season 6 prospects are very much tied to its success this season, since it was "on the bubble" last season, I understand.
|
|
|
Post by Sue on Nov 1, 2003 11:53:18 GMT -5
, I want to compliment the reviewers and posters. And we do so love to be complimented! Thanks. I hope that is good wallowing. I think a lot of us are in the same boat--relatively new to Angel. I agree about the ep, which was why I was surprised at the rave reviews by TV GUIDE guy and Herc at AICN. Possibly those of us who are still mourning the loss of Buffy have a different perspective. (And I know I always like Spike-heavy episodes better.) And this is sooooo troubling. Because, how can you plan ahead for a series vs season finale if you don't know which you are aiming for? Do any of us really believe that we will actually see an sanshu on screen before the end of the show? If you don't know whether you are planning a season finale vs a series finale what do you do. Not just the arc-planning and writing but even the filming is often complete before the network makes decisions regarding next year. Quite a dilemma!
|
|
|
Post by Fleisch on Nov 1, 2003 12:45:59 GMT -5
Just wanted to say that in this context, "Matsuta" would make more sense as a fashion designer, and there is a Japanese designer called Matsuda. Mostly visible on the internet for sunglasses, but apparently they make clothes too. www.europacouture.com/entire/blouses/blouses6.htmlI've never heard of them, but maybe they're very trendy in LA.
|
|