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Post by Nan-S'cubie Mascot on Nov 5, 2003 13:37:20 GMT -5
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Post by LadyDi on Nov 6, 2003 22:01:23 GMT -5
First again? Does this mean the world's gonna end? I just loved Spike's reference to "the poetry of it." Yay! Also thought Spike was in rare form w/the snark. Loved his expression when Cinco threw Angel into the glass. 'Bout time it happened to someone else. Gotta keep this short and sweet; test tomorrow. I'll probably do better on it if I study.
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Post by makd on Nov 6, 2003 22:54:50 GMT -5
One of the best this season - and ITA - so dense, so packed - with obvious plot and with the sublties of that oh-so-famous, and oh-so-long-living arc.
What a great show, and what a terrific review! Thanks, Nan.
Still cogitating on it, you know. Watched it again, and there's just so much. I missed most of Spike's snarkiness in the car first time around. Second time around, I was laughing: can't drink, can't smoke, can't diddle my willie. Do you think the WB censors missed the masturbation line, or just thought it was ....what?
Loved, loved, loved, the conversation between Spike and Fred. He may be a champion to her, but she is clearly gonna be a champion for him.
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Post by Nan-S'cubie Mascot on Nov 6, 2003 23:02:18 GMT -5
Thanks, Makd. Glad you thought I caught at least most of the important stuff. One thing I wish I'd thought of was the effective use of Mexican-style music in portions of the episode. I don't know if they were authentic, but I certainly thought they added to the overall seriousness and respect being displayed toward the luchadores in general and ol' Cinco in particular.
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Post by makd on Nov 6, 2003 23:16:44 GMT -5
Thanks, Makd. Glad you thought I caught at least most of the important stuff. One thing I wish I'd thought of was the effective use of Mexican-style music in portions of the episode. I don't know if they were authentic, but I certainly thought they added to the overall seriousness and respect being displayed toward the luchadores in general and ol' Cinco in particular. Agree on the music. The luchadores (a.k.a. las mascarados) play an important in Mexican pop culture. They are far more important there than are wrestlers here. In Mexico, they play a role similar to that of baseball/basketball/football, combined with movie action hero. No pun, but they pack quite a punch!
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Post by Patti - S'cubie Cutie on Nov 6, 2003 23:52:25 GMT -5
Enjoyed your review Nan! Full of detailed goodness...but I gotta admit my favorite part was you picking up on the punctuation mistake on the business card! Only Nan! *grins*
I could barely SEE the card! Gotta watch that ep again...
I love the way the little threads are being woven together...there IS 'arc'...
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Post by Nan-S'cubie Mascot on Nov 7, 2003 0:16:13 GMT -5
Enjoyed your review Nan! Full of detailed goodness...but I gotta admit my favorite part was you picking up on the punctuation mistake on the business card! Only Nan! *grins* I could barely SEE the card! Gotta watch that ep again... I love the way the little threads are being woven together...there IS 'arc'... Yeh, I'm moderately proud of myself for doing the Grammar Nazi and noticing the evil punctuation.... After: Sorry I edited your post, Patti. I meant to quote and only afterward realized that instead I'd modified. Just don't know my own power here at all....
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Post by Nickim on Nov 7, 2003 13:46:26 GMT -5
Great review, Nan. I can't believe so many people on other boards thought this ep was boring. They need to read your review and look deeper. The mano a mano scenes with El Cinco & Angel were very reminiscent of Mulder & any one of several informants on X-Files. I wish I had watched Angel from the beginning. Too bad TNT didn't start airing the past seasons in the summer. I have read all the episode synopsis--don't know the plural--so that helps. At least I'm not totally lost when they start talking about prophecies. When El Cinco made the remark about is it "too much to honor those who died" I thought of Fred showing Spike some honor for closing the hellmouth and saving her life. I still want Angel to give Spike some praise for those actions.
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Post by Nickim on Nov 7, 2003 14:34:14 GMT -5
(emphasis mine) Amen! Spike saved Buffy (along w/the rest of the world) and you'd think Angel would show a little graditude. Angel mentioned hearing from her in Just Rewards and that wouldn't be possible except for Spike. As bad as Angel has always felt about siring Dru, you'd think he would take some pride in the fact that his grandchilde sought out a soul and helped to save the world. Even if it was just a "well, he is MY grandchilde" kinda' thing.
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Post by Nickim on Nov 7, 2003 14:38:08 GMT -5
As bad as Angel has always felt about siring Dru, you'd think he would take some pride in the fact that his grandchilde sought out a soul and helped to save the world. Even if it was just a "well, he is MY grandchilde" kinda' thing. Being kool and quoting myself. It goes back to being willing to share power. Buffy was, to the point of empowering every Potential. She didn't care who killed the most Turok Han, she just wanted 'em dead. If Angel can see that when others contribute it doesn't take away from HIS power, he'll learn to relax and let them all be connected again. Then, they'll truly be a Dream Team. I know I don't structure my sentences the best, but I hope this makes sense.
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Post by LadyDi on Nov 7, 2003 15:05:32 GMT -5
Being kool and quoting myself. It goes back to being willing to share power. Buffy was, to the point of empowering every Potential. She didn't care who killed the most Turok Han, she just wanted 'em dead. If Angel can see that when others contribute it doesn't take away from HIS power, he'll learn to relax and let them all be connected again. Then, they'll truly be a Dream Team. I know I don't structure my sentences the best, but I hope this makes sense. Works for me...but what does it say about Angel when Little Miss Cookie Dough grasps a concept he has yet to understand?
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Post by Karen on Nov 7, 2003 15:28:36 GMT -5
Works for me...but what does it say about Angel when Little Miss Cookie Dough grasps a concept he has yet to understand? Girls achieve emotional maturity long before boys do. I heard recently that men might not reach that emotional maturity until their 30's. Buffy also had alot of help from her friends before she understood that sharing her power was the right thing to do. And Spike was the major player. I hope we see Spike's presence doing the same for Angel.
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Post by Karen on Nov 7, 2003 15:49:02 GMT -5
I suppose some cases are harder than others. Angel is a special case. ;D A hard nut to crack.
Edit: Angel is struggling with issues that for him are painful, and I think he deserves some compassion, if only for the fact that he does continue to strive to do good and make a difference.
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Post by Reetta on Nov 7, 2003 17:45:11 GMT -5
Great review, Nan (as always). I admire your ability to make connections between different episodes. It is like I get a brand new review of the entire season every time, every review always adding a little bit more to the previous one. One can trace the story development of the whole season by just reading your reviews. And not only is it an easy way to do it but a very pleasant way, too. Very interesting points about the nature of heroism and about Spike's faith and hope being renewed and validated.
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Post by raenstorm on Nov 7, 2003 19:54:24 GMT -5
Granted girls typically mature faster, but Angel's had a freakin' bicentennial! He's been ensouled for over a hundred years. Maybe demons don't change (Spike's supposed to be the exception), but ensouled beings are capable of learning and growth. Angel desperately needs to get his head out of his a$$! For what it is worth, I do not think that Angel is all that bad about sharing power. Spike is an exception to the rule but Angel shares powers with the others just fine. If he is being somewhat defensive in areas concerning Spike, it may have more to do with the fact that moving to W&H HAS taken away some of his purpose. Fred, Wesley, Gunn, and Lorne have their own departments to run. They actively participate in all that is going on around them in those departments. True, Angel is running the whole show...but he has extremely good managers working for him so he doesn't have to technically do much. As we saw in the first episode, he even has employees who don't want him out in the field, participating in the action. His role with the group has shifted and, as anyone who has to get used to a new job, he's not feeling all that secure and comfortable with it yet. Not to mention... the evilness of W&H and the questioning of the decision to take it over. Soooo... along comes Spike who is being a snarky lil' punk. Granted, he's got his own issues but it is not like he's cuttin' Angel any slack either. AND, in this last ep, even though Spike gleefully tries to spread false rumors about Angel attacking $5, Angel merely shrugs it off. I think we are clearly seeing that Angel has softened towards him. It doesn't mean he's all... "I love you, man. You are the reason Buffy lives to bake her dough another day. Give a man a hug!" I'd be suffering from serious whiplash if Angel suddenly went skipping down the hall, arm in arm with Spike. Edit: Oh yeah, great review per usual, Nan!
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