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Post by Lola m on Dec 10, 2013 21:23:52 GMT -5
Doctor Who! *runs through trailing scarf and waving sonic* *squeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee* OMG, wasn't it awesome!!!! **bounces happily around**
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Post by beccaelizabeth on Dec 11, 2013 4:22:42 GMT -5
The Daughter has gotten engaged to The Boyfriend. So now I guess I call him The Fiance. Suppose I ought to brush up on my Mother-in-Lawing. shiny
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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on Dec 11, 2013 12:07:46 GMT -5
Congrats, Diane and Sue! Hey, Liz! #wavey# Sympathies and hugs, Anne! Thanks, Lola, and anybody else I might have missed. Congratulations, Diane! My pre-op consult appointment had to be put off until Jan 2, which means that Paul can't go with me unless he takes time off work. He had been going to go along when it was on Dec 30, because he was off anyway, but... I said I'd rather he took time off for my surgery and afterwards. With the current climate at his company, even that much time off will be risky, but I need to be driven there and back again, and possibly the post-op appointment the week after. So it can't be avoided, not that he wants to. It's going to be a long couple of months, and I'm going to be very grumpy. So if I don't post here, think nothing of it. *refills basket of brackets*
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Post by Queen E on Dec 11, 2013 13:04:53 GMT -5
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Post by SpringSummers on Dec 11, 2013 14:15:41 GMT -5
Also? MN f'ing yeah! **does fist pump of foul mouthyness** Yes! MN is an island of foul mouthyness - surrounded by goody two-shoes. Stay effing strong, Minnesota.
Is PR starting again tomorrow? I saw some kind of commercial about PR starting again soon - All Stars, maybe. Must check.
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Post by SpringSummers on Dec 11, 2013 14:17:05 GMT -5
Anne: All the best with the challenges ahead, and sorry to hear you have to go through them.
Diane: Congrats to the beautiful daughter with the beautiful ring.
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Post by SpringSummers on Dec 11, 2013 14:20:52 GMT -5
Fun.
So you're saying . . . you always wished there had been more follow up, a sequel to the Chronicles? Or something else that bothered you?
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Post by Queen E on Dec 11, 2013 15:43:03 GMT -5
Fun.
So you're saying . . . you always wished there had been more follow up, a sequel to the Chronicles? Or something else that bothered you?
No, it was the fact that (SPOILER) at the end of the series, the character of Susan is spoken of derisively as "no longer a friend of Narnia" because she's more interested in clothes and boys and lipstick. Given the fact that at the end, everybody dies and goes to Narnia...all of her siblings and her parents...the implication has always been that because she was so "shallow," her reward is to be eternally separated from her entire family. I'm not explaining very well, but there is an undercurrent of a very particular type of misogyny that only a man who spent his life in academia and has no idea of what women are like is prey to.
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Post by SpringSummers on Dec 11, 2013 21:59:21 GMT -5
Fun.
So you're saying . . . you always wished there had been more follow up, a sequel to the Chronicles? Or something else that bothered you?
No, it was the fact that (SPOILER) at the end of the series, the character of Susan is spoken of derisively as "no longer a friend of Narnia" because she's more interested in clothes and boys and lipstick. Given the fact that at the end, everybody dies and goes to Narnia...all of her siblings and her parents...the implication has always been that because she was so "shallow," her reward is to be eternally separated from her entire family. I'm not explaining very well, but there is an undercurrent of a very particular type of misogyny that only a man who spent his life in academia and has no idea of what women are like is prey to. No, you are explaining just fine- interesting. It has been so very long since I read or saw any kind of production of the Narnia stories that I had forgotten that whole business.
I've no doubt you're right about the level of Lewis' knowledge about women in general. I read "A Grief Observed" a couple of years ago, in which he discussed the death of his wife, and if memory serves, he married rather late in life, and he married a woman with a terminal illness. And of course, he was, no doubt, a man of his times and culture.
I am thinking of re-reading the Chronicles - it was so long ago that it would be a lot like an initial read. I recall so little.
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Post by S'ewing S'cubie on Dec 13, 2013 7:14:17 GMT -5
Anne: All the best with the challenges ahead, and sorry to hear you have to go through them.
Diane: Congrats to the beautiful daughter with the beautiful ring. Thank you, Spring. Anne, I know how scary upcoming surgery can be. In 2010 I did it twice, staying home and caring for myself without the help of anyone, friend of family. You can do this, and as nice as it is to have them around you, you may feel and I came to, that the solitude was not 100% unwelcome. Meantime, we, of co urse, will still be here to offer what support we can.
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Post by S'ewing S'cubie on Dec 13, 2013 7:18:40 GMT -5
No, it was the fact that (SPOILER) at the end of the series, the character of Susan is spoken of derisively as "no longer a friend of Narnia" because she's more interested in clothes and boys and lipstick. Given the fact that at the end, everybody dies and goes to Narnia...all of her siblings and her parents...the implication has always been that because she was so "shallow," her reward is to be eternally separated from her entire family. I'm not explaining very well, but there is an undercurrent of a very particular type of misogyny that only a man who spent his life in academia and has no idea of what women are like is prey to. No, you are explaining just fine- interesting. It has been so very long since I read or saw any kind of production of the Narnia stories that I had forgotten that whole business.
I've no doubt you're right about the level of Lewis' knowledge about women in general. I read "A Grief Observed" a couple of years ago, in which he discussed the death of his wife, and if memory serves, he married rather late in life, and he married a woman with a terminal illness. And of course, he was, no doubt, a man of his times and culture.
I am thinking of re-reading the Chronicles - it was so long ago that it would be a lot like an initial read. I recall so little.
I've never read the series all the way through, so I never encountered this part. I'm horrified to hear that Susan was cut off from Narnia because she had what for a girl of her time and place, normal interests. Is there any other explanation? Because as shallow as Lewis' view might necessarily be, I can't imagine Aslan being that narrow-minded. He, after all, was the one who exiled her from her kingdom for the terrible crime of growing up. What did Lewis expect?
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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on Dec 13, 2013 11:49:13 GMT -5
Anne: All the best with the challenges ahead, and sorry to hear you have to go through them.
Diane: Congrats to the beautiful daughter with the beautiful ring. Thank you, Spring. Anne, I know how scary upcoming surgery can be. In 2010 I did it twice, staying home and caring for myself without the help of anyone, friend of family. You can do this, and as nice as it is to have them around you, you may feel and I came to, that the solitude was not 100% unwelcome. Meantime, we, of co urse, will still be here to offer what support we can. Thanks, support is much appreciated. It's the restrictions that are going to be the real problem - no heavy lifting (I asked, "heavy" means nothing over 2 lbs, which means no picking up cats, for starters), no driving, probably no voice for several days minimum and possibly several weeks, which will send Aged Mum into hissyfits and and force her to call me even more often, demanding that I speak to her... I'll know more after the pre-op appointment, I hope. Add that to my ongoing worries, and it's no wonder I'm having trouble sleeping, and nightmares when I do sleep. No voice. I'll have to get my little whiteboard from my studio and use that. Hee hee. It'll be an excuse to use all the pretty markers, anyway...
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Post by Sue on Dec 14, 2013 9:21:13 GMT -5
No, you are explaining just fine- interesting. It has been so very long since I read or saw any kind of production of the Narnia stories that I had forgotten that whole business.
I've no doubt you're right about the level of Lewis' knowledge about women in general. I read "A Grief Observed" a couple of years ago, in which he discussed the death of his wife, and if memory serves, he married rather late in life, and he married a woman with a terminal illness. And of course, he was, no doubt, a man of his times and culture.
I am thinking of re-reading the Chronicles - it was so long ago that it would be a lot like an initial read. I recall so little.
I've never read the series all the way through, so I never encountered this part. I'm horrified to hear that Susan was cut off from Narnia because she had what for a girl of her time and place, normal interests. Is there any other explanation? Because as shallow as Lewis' view might necessarily be, I can't imagine Aslan being that narrow-minded. He, after all, was the one who exiled her from her kingdom for the terrible crime of growing up. What did Lewis expect? If I may suggest: He may have portrayed it clumsily as "being interested in girly things" but he could have easily have made that character be a boy. So, misogynist only in making a 50/50 choice be a girl rather than a boy. (I mean, he had some strong women in Lucy and Jill and the older woman (professor's friend)). What he was attempting to convey, imo, (and this may get your dander up as well if for different reasons) but he is a Christian apologist and he wanted to have at least one character fall away from belief in Aslan and therefore not (at least not at that time) therefor not reach "heaven." He didn't send her to hell (although I would argue that with the rest of her family dead .... well, that's my personal hell scenario), he just wanted to show that if one turns away from one's belief to making the things of this world paramount in one's life then when the big battle of good vs evil comes you will be (at the very least) side-lined. I never took it as anti-woman myself. And, as a believer I understood the message quite clearly. Not a "threat" -- believe or you will be left behind -- but as a promise that with belief, even in death, you will be transported to Narnia. I'm not suggesting you believe the same, just that maybe Lewis wasn't being actively anti-lipstick, etc.
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Post by S'ewing S'cubie on Dec 15, 2013 0:31:24 GMT -5
Thank you, Spring. Anne, I know how scary upcoming surgery can be. In 2010 I did it twice, staying home and caring for myself without the help of anyone, friend of family. You can do this, and as nice as it is to have them around you, you may feel and I came to, that the solitude was not 100% unwelcome. Meantime, we, of co urse, will still be here to offer what support we can. Thanks, support is much appreciated. It's the restrictions that are going to be the real problem - no heavy lifting (I asked, "heavy" means nothing over 2 lbs, which means no picking up cats, for starters), no driving, probably no voice for several days minimum and possibly several weeks, which will send Aged Mum into hissyfits and and force her to call me even more often, demanding that I speak to her... I'll know more after the pre-op appointment, I hope. Add that to my ongoing worries, and it's no wonder I'm having trouble sleeping, and nightmares when I do sleep. No voice. I'll have to get my little whiteboard from my studio and use that. Hee hee. It'll be an excuse to use all the pretty markers, anyway...
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Post by S'ewing S'cubie on Dec 15, 2013 0:47:46 GMT -5
I've never read the series all the way through, so I never encountered this part. I'm horrified to hear that Susan was cut off from Narnia because she had what for a girl of her time and place, normal interests. Is there any other explanation? Because as shallow as Lewis' view might necessarily be, I can't imagine Aslan being that narrow-minded. He, after all, was the one who exiled her from her kingdom for the terrible crime of growing up. What did Lewis expect? If I may suggest: He may have portrayed it clumsily as "being interested in girly things" but he could have easily have made that character be a boy. So, misogynist only in making a 50/50 choice be a girl rather than a boy. (I mean, he had some strong women in Lucy and Jill and the older woman (professor's friend)). What he was attempting to convey, imo, (and this may get your dander up as well if for different reasons) but he is a Christian apologist and he wanted to have at least one character fall away from belief in Aslan and therefore not (at least not at that time) therefor not reach "heaven." He didn't send her to hell (although I would argue that with the rest of her family dead .... well, that's my personal hell scenario), he just wanted to show that if one turns away from one's belief to making the things of this world paramount in one's life then when the big battle of good vs evil comes you will be (at the very least) side-lined. I never took it as anti-woman myself. And, as a believer I understood the message quite clearly. Not a "threat" -- believe or you will be left behind -- but as a promise that with belief, even in death, you will be transported to Narnia. I'm not suggesting you believe the same, just that maybe Lewis wasn't being actively anti-lipstick, etc. I find this line to be cruelly unfair. First Susan, still a child, of her own choice risks her own life and the lives of her siblings to help a non-human people she doesn't know win their freedom. Along with the others she earns a place as ruler of a kingdom, rules wisely and well for 10 years and then is abruptly tossed back to her former life--which she barely remembers--and is expected to live her childhood and adolesence all over again. It takes her a year or more to re-adjust when she is once more swept up in the politics and wars of her own former kingdom. She puts everything on the line a second time and even begins to fall in love when she is once more kicked out and expected to be a child for what amounts to a third time! Most of us barely survive it only once. She isn't even asked back for the third adventure because she has had the temerity to grow up. Having twice proved her bravery, her maturity and anything else that a person could ask--she then loses her whole family. But is Aslan at all compassionate to all she has contributed, all she risked and all she has lost? No. She is refused Narian resurrection because she has found a way to deal with all she has endured--for them? If this is Lewis' view of Aslan, Christ and Christianity please leave me out of it. I'll stay behind with Susan. Fie, C.S. Fie and be shamed.
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