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Post by WinterDreamer on Feb 20, 2004 23:55:49 GMT -5
Gunn. Sigh. I so agree with you. He took the deal. I thought so when he showed up at the office all cool collected and back to full-on lawyer mode. I want to believe that Patti is right and he didn't. My heart wants to go there. But somewhere deep down I know he's in so deep now, he didn't take this chance to get out. And I feel so icky about what could happen to him. Gunn who used to be so clear on the mission. Lola Yeah--I think he did too. W&H is so very good at the buy-out. They're experts at finding the weak spot. Even if Dr. Strangelove was acting on his own, which I'm not sure I believe, he's part of W&H. He knows how the company operates. And it's not like Gunn doesn't have a track record here. He's already sold his soul once, before W&H.
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Post by makd on Feb 21, 2004 2:11:09 GMT -5
As always, great review, Nan! Thanks so much for taking the time every week to bring us your ideas and interpretation of the show.
So much has already been said, there's not much to add, except I did want to share that I've never seen Angel so endearing, so charming, so wonderful, as when he was felted. So sweet - how could Nina resist him? He was just irresistable. (That could've been the other theme for the show: "Simply Irresistable.")
And, speaking of signals: Angel sees Nina and almost falls on the stairs, he's so thrown by her. Then, he puts his arm around her and guides her to her "monthly suite". That's certainly a signal to Nina (and to the Office Ladies) of Angel's interest.
I mean, I can't recall Angel EVER walking with his arm around Buffy, or Darla, or Cordy, or even Fred - after just 4 months. Angel really does like Nina; I hope we see them together as a couple before the season's end. (Note the hopeful note: I will NOT say, "series' end"; umhum - not yet.)
and, ooh, ooh, did you notice that, when Nina asked him what puppets eat he just looked her over? Nice touch, that; even Puppet!Angel can ogle a little.
Now, if they could just bring Spike from his Season4/5BtVS status to reflect better a post-chosen status, I'd be a happy little (?) camper. But I don't expect that.
JM's interview in Dreamwatcher indicated that the move to return Spike to BuffySeason4/5 is intentional on the writers' part. Then, he stated that Spike is also more shallow and less smart than previously thought. Retrograde!Spike not one of my favorite Spike incarnations. So, no happy scenes for Spike in the offing. T
Also, I was a little thrown because Lorne did not say anything about Framkin - and Framkin sang a song; he also didn't say anything about the singing puppets. It wasn't until Wes indicated there was a cloaking spell that I realized that Lorne was fooled, too.
that's it; off to beddy-bye. Once again, Nan - great review and thanks for taking the time to write it.
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Post by Sammie on Feb 21, 2004 2:29:53 GMT -5
Thanks for all the interesting points in the review!
Since my mind is consumed with minutiae, I was wondering about the towel-headed fellow. I couldn't tell if he was supposed to be Framkin or just the spooky sanitation engineer of the Don't room...any thoughts?
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Post by Patti - S'cubie Cutie on Feb 21, 2004 2:41:43 GMT -5
I really enjoyed your review and I'm glad you included Lola's funny list and Diane's poem - and Be's thoughts too! It really shows some of the other neat things about our site and that is a neat thing to do. I really really liked that you DID work the cancellation news and the Support Angel campaigns into your review as Vlad and I think others suggested. Good work for the cause!
And you kept it fun at the same time.
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Post by Nickim on Feb 21, 2004 15:52:23 GMT -5
Nan,
I enjoyed your review, as always. I really hope you're wrong about Gunn, though. I want to see a scene where he tells everyone that he told the doc "the high school drop-out IS the real me, so screw you."
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Post by Nan-S'cubie Mascot on Feb 21, 2004 16:10:30 GMT -5
Nan, I enjoyed your review, as always. I really hope you're wrong about Gunn, though. I want to see a scene where he tells everyone that he told the doc "the high school drop-out IS the real me, so screw you." Hope away, Nicki...but then where did Gunn's sudden resumption of glib lawyer-speak come from? Don't hardly think so....
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Post by Cal on Feb 21, 2004 16:45:27 GMT -5
Hope away, Nicki...but then where did Gunn's sudden resumption of glib lawyer-speak come from? Don't hardly think so.... I'm with you on this one, Nan.
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Post by S'ewing S'cubie on Feb 21, 2004 17:36:59 GMT -5
As always a very insightful review. But most especially want to thank you for including my humble effort. They do seem to say much the same thing, don't they?
I really expected to hate this episode and I found I really enjoyed it. First I was cheering Hooray for Angel and Nina then I was cheering Hooray for Wes and Fred. Do you suppose there's a Jossaholic's Anonymous out there?
Hell, I even enjoyed the stupid Self Esteem Song.
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Post by Nickim on Feb 21, 2004 18:38:57 GMT -5
As always a very insightful review. But most especially want to thank you for including my humble effort. They do seem to say much the same thing, don't they? I really expected to hate this episode and I found I really enjoyed it. First I was cheering Hooray for Angel and Nina then I was cheering Hooray for Wes and Fred. Do you suppose there's a Jossaholic's Anonymous out there? Hell, I even enjoyed the stupid Self Esteem Song. Isn't the S3 a Jossaholic's Nonanonymous? ;D
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Post by Nickim on Feb 21, 2004 18:49:17 GMT -5
Hope away, Nicki...but then where did Gunn's sudden resumption of glib lawyer-speak come from? Don't hardly think so.... Actually, Gunn doesn't really do the lawyer-speak. He says the contract had "some pretty tricky legalese. Frampkin must have missed some of the fine print." But notice, Gunn doesn't explain exactly what that "tricky legalese" is. I still think it's possible that Gunn found the contract and got someone else to explain the fine points to him.
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Post by Julia, wrought iron-y on Feb 21, 2004 21:19:49 GMT -5
Great review as usual, Nan, and as usual you've helped me see things I was missing.
Not to pile on here, but I'm pretty sure that Gunn took the deal; he was so obviously floundering with words in earlier scenes that his "Library of Demonic Congress" speech is a pretty strong indicator that he's been recharged.
But what I didn't understand until reading the review and the discussion it's engendered is just how much the entire AI group have come to depend on Gunn's "upgrade". It has made them even more isolated and vulnerable within W&H, because with Gunn as their super lawyer they haven't had to establish a way of getting good legal advice within the law firm they allegedly operate.
Gunn' expertise is at the mercy of the Senior partners, and Angel and the others are at the mercy of his expertise.
I'll agree that the fun was funny, and the shipping was shippy, but in the end this episode has a core which is very scary: whatever strength they're gaining from their positions behind the necrotempered glass, they are becoming more and more vulnerable, just like the kids watching through the TV glass.
Julia, who may have set herself up for nightmares with that bunch of cheery thoughts
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Post by beccaelizabeth on Feb 21, 2004 21:33:58 GMT -5
whatever strength they're gaining from their positions behind the necrotempered glass, which brought to mind an image of what I'd do to them when it comes time to bring it all crashing down (and you *know* it will). They've come to rely on the necrotempered stuff for safety. They walk through daylight without hardly thinking about it. Time to break them out of their monied complacency- just shatter the glass. Is there even anywhere in Angel's office he could hide if someone did that? Bring Angel into the light, like he did to that idiot back in the beginning... oooh, definitely the way I'd go...
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Post by Nan-S'cubie Mascot on Feb 21, 2004 23:51:13 GMT -5
which brought to mind an image of what I'd do to them when it comes time to bring it all crashing down (and you *know* it will). They've come to rely on the necrotempered stuff for safety. They walk through daylight without hardly thinking about it. Time to break them out of their monied complacency- just shatter the glass. Is there even anywhere in Angel's office he could hide if someone did that? Bring Angel into the light, like he did to that idiot back in the beginning... oooh, definitely the way I'd go... You have a nasty mind, BeccaElizabeth. I LIKE that in a person!
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Post by LadyDi on Feb 22, 2004 0:12:55 GMT -5
You have a nasty mind, BeccaElizabeth. I LIKE that in a person! ITA! Wondering what would happen to Spike if he got hit by a stray sunbeam? Would he smoulder as expected? It's something that's been lurking standing about at the back of my mind ever since Spike picked up the cross in Destiny.
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Post by makd on Feb 22, 2004 1:39:06 GMT -5
ITA! Wondering what would happen to Spike if he got hit by a stray sunbeam? Would he smoulder as expected? It's something that's been lurking standing about at the back of my mind ever since Spike picked up the cross in Destiny. Yep! This is yet another thread the writers have left hanging! In Destiny, Spike was so powerful he could bend reality; he could beat Angel; he could hold a giant cross, without burning. Now he's so weak he's beaten by a puppet!Angel. He's a hero, but he can't find the help he needs to determine his mission. I am truly concerned for our William. He's now foggier than Angel, who seems to have re-found his mission, thanks to Cordy, Lawson, Nina and the self-esteem song. And Spike? he's more confused than ever. I fear for our boy; I fear for him. I'm glad for Angel, but I fear for Spike. I am also fearing for Gunn. Big time. Mega time. Macrotime. In fact, right now, the only character I'm not totally fearing for is Harmony.
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