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Post by SpringSummers on Apr 12, 2004 7:34:22 GMT -5
Not. He perceived a limitation in himself, things he couldnt understand, and he wanted to fix that. He knew he had almost hurt someone he cared about. He needed to fix that too, make it less likely to happen again. No soul needed for either part, unless you believe you cannot love without a soul, and it has been made clear with a bunch of vampires that that isnt true. I agree with you, becca - I don't think Spike had any bit of a soul left. Not in the way the Jossverse defines the soul - it was all gone. But Spike is seen as freakish in the vampire world, and he does have a freakish amount of his human sensibilities left, and . . . it's not any bit of his soul, I agree. But he has this sort of . . . teeny, tiny dried up seed of goodness left in him. The chip and the Buffy-love provide the freaky circumstances that allow that freaky remnant to begin to put out tendrils. And the rest is history. |
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Post by Riff on Apr 13, 2004 9:13:06 GMT -5
STOP PRESS!
I have news, but I'm not sure how to safely post it. It isn't exactly a spoiler, but it’s VERY spoiler-ish, more a spoiler that might have been. The source is Amy Acker herself, interviewed in the current edition of dreamwatch magazine. I’m not sure if this mag is only available here in the UK.
How would I post this? Assuming anyone wants me too?
I normally try to stay unspoiled, too.
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Post by Cal on Apr 13, 2004 9:16:33 GMT -5
STOP PRESS! I have news, but I'm not sure how to safely post it. It isn't exactly a spoiler, but it’s VERY spoiler-ish, more a spoiler that might have been. The source is Amy Acker herself, interviewed in the current edition of dreamwatch magazine. I’m not sure if this mag is only available here in the UK. How would I post this? Assuming anyone wants me too? I normally try to stay unspoiled, too. Probably best to post it on the Spoiled Souls thread, Riff. |
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Post by Sue on Apr 13, 2004 9:18:05 GMT -5
Probably best to post it on the Spoiled Souls thread, Riff. Cal-- Since Riff is a guest I don't know if she/he(?) can start a new thread. And, if unspoiled, wants to go to the Spoiled Thread. Maybe she could IM it to you to post? Sue |
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Post by Riff on Apr 13, 2004 9:28:21 GMT -5
LOL – I’m a “he”, by the way!
OK. I’ve registered and will try to post on the spoiled souls board.
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Post by Riff on Apr 13, 2004 9:47:10 GMT -5
I've posted the thread on the Spoiled Souls board.
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Post by Sue on Apr 13, 2004 14:15:15 GMT -5
LOL – I’m a “he”, by the way! OK. I’ve registered and will try to post on the spoiled souls board. Welcome aboard! (I admit I'm not even sure that you absolutely couldn't have started a new thread as a guest, but it was just a diabolical plan to get you to register.  ) Feel free to come on by the main thread anytime. Sometimes Wednesdays are a little racy (pre-episode) but as soon as the episode airs at 9 PM Eastern daylight time here in the states (about 1 am your time?) there will be a epsisode discussion on the main thread--hot and heavy all day Thursday too. Since Nan is now working it's hard to know how long we will have to wait for her review to be up on this thread. (Nosy question: by "age: 1933" were you counting in vampire years or giving a birthdate?) |
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Post by Riff on Apr 14, 2004 12:46:11 GMT -5
Ahem, yes. 1933 would have made the Master look pretty youthful.
Thanks for persuading me to join up! I rather like what I’ve seen on this site. So much more grown up than all those who’s-hot-and-who’s-not Buffy and Angel message boards out there.
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Post by Sue on Apr 14, 2004 14:23:41 GMT -5
Ahem, yes. 1933 would have made the Master look pretty youthful. Thanks for persuading me to join up! I rather like what I’ve seen on this site. So much more grown up than all those who’s-hot-and-who’s-not Buffy and Angel message boards out there. Hmm, on second thought maybe you shouldn't drop by the main thread--at least not on a Wednesday. (just kidding--but we can get a bit immature in anticipation of a new episode.) |
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Post by Riff on Apr 15, 2004 5:20:56 GMT -5
LOL. I'm not that English.
I'll pop over to the main board as soon as I'm able to download the episode. Living in the UK this is something I have to do if I want to stay up to date. But I'm good - I watch the eps when they arrive on our satellite and (eventually) terrestrial TV. I buy the dvds too!
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Post by Cal on Apr 15, 2004 17:21:17 GMT -5
LOL. I'm not that English. I'll pop over to the main board as soon as I'm able to download the episode. Living in the UK this is something I have to do if I want to stay up to date. But I'm good - I watch the eps when they arrive on our satellite and (eventually) terrestrial TV. I buy the dvds too! Me too, Riff! Welcome to the board. It's nice to have another fellow UK member here! Cal  |
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Post by Riff on Apr 17, 2004 5:16:15 GMT -5
Hello! Riff |
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Post by nmcil on Apr 19, 2004 0:59:40 GMT -5
This does raise an interesting question, though – where are vampire’s souls? Presumably they exist somewhere. This is a point that has not been addressed by Joss. As you note be with cranky boardness, Angel and Spike have no memories of heaven, hell or anywhere else. In fact, when Angel’s soul returns at end of BtVS season two, he has no memory of past months (at least I think so; hope my memory’s working better than his). Perhaps vampire’s souls exist in some kind of limbo? The question of where the soul exist is really interesting - I see the potential answer in describing The Soul as one component of The Life Force - a component that has meaning in our normal human existence only within the physical/corporeal world. Even with the non-corporeal Spike, his "soul energy" can exist because he still maintains some semblance of his human physical self - he retains his memories as Spike/William. Without any source for the spiritual or The Soul to manifest in a corporeal form or ghost with memories, it becomes sheer Life Force Energy that returns into a universal force. Of course, on this level, there would be a disconnect with its human life form - this is the problem with the Soul Retrieval Theory - For a soul to be able to reconnect with its human counterpart, it would have to keep the memory connections, otherwise their could be no recognition or reconnect. I think that is one of the reason that Illyria/Fred are described as sharing memories. Illyria describes Fred's memories as energy form with connection - synapses if I remember correctly. Did I make any sense? |
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Post by dr76 on Dec 14, 2009 12:44:55 GMT -5
I feel that this description of both Charles and Angel is rather binding. Both are very intelligent individuals. More intelligent than others seemed to assume. The mistake that both Charles and Angel made was that each made a choice that led to what they believed was an easier path.
Instead of facing Connor's actions of S4 and dealing with the consequences, Angel chose the easier path of making the deal with Wolfram and Hart to erase what had occurred from Connor's mind and erase all memories of Connor from his friends' minds. The mind wipe didn't seem to have much impact upon the others - aside from Wes, who nearly freaked out over the memories of Connor's kidnapping in S3. But Angel did face the consequences of his deal with W&H.
Instead of taking the trouble to attend and finish school in order to become an attorney, Charles chose the easier path by allowing Wolfram and Hart to transform him into an "instant" lawyer via magic. And believe or not, Charles had the brains to become one. He has proven in the past that he is a very intelligent person. But he has been brainwashed by others - especially Fred - and his own insecurities that he was nothing more than muscle.
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