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Post by LadyDi on Jan 16, 2004 22:52:07 GMT -5
My emphasis I dunno, Sunday, in "The Freshman" was pretty full of happy bouncy evil... Julia, not thinking analytically today, need to come back when the higher neural functions are, uh, functioning Forgot about Sunday, but we didn't get to know her all that well - she didn't even make it thru the ep.
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Post by Rachael on Jan 16, 2004 23:45:03 GMT -5
You do one Hell of a job here, Vladster. Lots of terrific points...you found a lot more depth in "Harm's Way" than I did. Now I see things a bit differently. I agree that Harmony's journey (if one could call it that without rolling their eyes at such a pretentious term) is unique in it's way. She is not the sort to deserve a Shanshu necessarily; but she confounds the rulebook somewhat. She was a pretty useless human overall. Her one positive action in human life - fighting at the side of the Scooby Gang on Graduation Day - resulted in an even worse debacle. Harmony is one of the most inept vampires we've ever seen...the girl didn't even get the Kung Fu attachments right away (see the hairpulling contest with Xander for reference). This, to me, begs an interesting question: Does the soul matter all that much in people who have no intellectual weight? Perhaps the deepest thing about Harmony is the very fact that she is not. Harm may not have enough DEPTH to reach great evil or goodness on her own. Harmony doesn't care WHO accepts her, just as long as they do. She's capable of going either way in terms of the Big Conflict. The only inner conflict in Harmony Kendall is which side might actually like and respect her. It's funny to watch at times...but mostly it makes me pity her. Good point about the villain of the episode...why wouldn't she fail the human blood test? Oh....wait a minute...Harmony knocked the guy out before she could be tested! Fanwank! Fanwank! The better question would be why the girl even told Harmony anything. Oh well...perhaps analyzing the plot too much misses the point. In conclusion, you do a really nice job keeping things interesting while reviewing Harm's rather limited characterization. Honestly, I've never cared much for Harmony one way or the other...but this review reminds me of some interesting things I'd forgotten. I hope you find the time to review another episode someday. I've got an answer to the blood test question - it was established early in the episode that not everyone got tested every day, so maybe Tamika had just been tested, and knew it'd be a while before she came up again. Of course, that explanation then raises the question of why Harm got tested two days running. No company would really have a "drug" test of every employee every day - not cost efficient. It looked to me almost like he just ran into her and decided "what the hell; let's do Harmony again". Which makes very little sense. As to the importance of a soul in a not-so-bright person - I'm gonna just challenge the necessity of a soul in any person. So far, in the Jossverse, the absence of a soul has been assumed to be the definition of evil - Spring was saying something about this on the Main Board today, in fact - evil being defined by the absence of good, just as dark is defined as the absence of light. But we've never been told flat out that lacking a soul makes one evil. Necessarily. And if one can be evil with a soul, then why not good without one? I'd argue that Spike wasn't exactly evil anymore by part way through Season 6. Bad, occasionally, yeah - but evil? Not always, certainly. Harmony isn't evil, IMO. Never has been. And I reserve judgement on her as a human, because, well - teenaged girl! Without seeing the adult she would have made, it's not fair to decide that she was a bad person. What makes you a "good" vs. an "evil" person? Actions or thoughts? If you're acting as a good person, does it matter why? Can a person grow a conscience without having a soul?
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Post by KMInfinity on Jan 17, 2004 13:11:46 GMT -5
Great review, Vlad.
It made me re-evaluate my opinions. I can't say I agreed with some of your conclusions but it's good to have a different POV given so well that it makes me doubt my own. ;D
In particular, I didn't feel that Harmony's character warranted an indepth focus, and still feel that way. After seeing this episode, I don't have the desire to see more of her, so in that sense it failed for me. If I found out her character got staked and dusted next episode I wouldn't even sigh.
I also am one of the folks who think that Spike's reason for not sailing to France is lame. I agree that the idea behind it might be good - he realizes that his "big moment" will be trivialized by seeing Buffy... But the bottmom line is that if he really loved her he would risk it. He would realize that the "image" of being a cool hero isn't as important as the "length and breadth and depth of love" that would remain after that image was weakened or destroyed. By having Spike refuse to face Buffy, even "off camera," the writers are negating a lot of Spike's development and character. First, the more "evolved" Spike wouldn't care so much about his image and would care more about Buffy. Second, the character of Spike wouldn't be afraid to take the chance.
Now there are many good reasons to explain why Spike doesn't pursue Buffy. The writers need to settle on one or more that makes sense. This doesn't, IMO.
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Post by Karen on Jan 17, 2004 13:20:26 GMT -5
Great review, Vlad. It made me re-evaluate my opinions. I can't say I agreed with some of your conclusions but it's good to have a different POV given so well that it makes me doubt my own. ;D In particular, I didn't feel that Harmony's character warranted an indepth focus, and still feel that way. After seeing this episode, I don't have the desire to see more of her, so in that sense it failed for me. If I found out her character got staked and dusted next episode I wouldn't even sigh. I also am one of the folks who think that Spike's reason for not sailing to France is lame. I agree that the idea behind it might be good - he realizes that his "big moment" will be trivialized by seeing Buffy... But the bottmom line is that if he really loved her he would risk it. He would realize that the "image" of being a cool hero isn't as important as the "length and breadth and depth of love" that would remain after that image was weakened or destroyed. By having Spike refuse to face Buffy, even "off camera," the writers are negating a lot of Spike's development and character. First, the more "evolved" Spike wouldn't care so much about his image and would care more about Buffy. Second, the character of Spike wouldn't be afraid to take the chance. Now there are many good reasons to explain why Spike doesn't pursue Buffy. The writers need to settle on one or more that makes sense. This doesn't, IMO. Poor Spike. I think he really did believe it when he responded to Buffy's "I love you, Spike", with "no you don't". And I think he's reflected and come to terms with it. Not that he doesn't "give a damn". But more like - what's the use? I'm glad he's realized this. Of course, this will make it even harder for SMG to change her mind and make an appearance - because, frankly, I don't see a place for her anymore. Not in Spike's life or Angel's. I'd like to see "Buffy's Place". But, I don't think I'll get my wish. And that makes me sad, because I think she'd have a great story to tell.
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Post by makd on Jan 17, 2004 14:27:58 GMT -5
Just want to remind Guests that there are more comments germane to episode 5.9 at Nan Dibble's Review: "Angel's Investigation", on our Angel's Investigation thread, and at the Main Board, Post #97, (5.9).
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Post by Patti - S'cubie Cutie on Jan 17, 2004 15:23:21 GMT -5
Just want to remind Guests that there are more comments germane to episode 5.9 at Nan Dibble's Review: "Angel's Investigation", on our Angel's Investigation thread, and at the Main Board, Post #97, (5.9). But if you are because of Vlad's review, you are in the right place!
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Post by RAKSHA on Jan 17, 2004 15:57:16 GMT -5
Great review, Vlad. It made me re-evaluate my opinions. I can't say I agreed with some of your conclusions but it's good to have a different POV given so well that it makes me doubt my own. ;D In particular, I didn't feel that Harmony's character warranted an indepth focus, and still feel that way. After seeing this episode, I don't have the desire to see more of her, so in that sense it failed for me. If I found out her character got staked and dusted next episode I wouldn't even sigh. I also am one of the folks who think that Spike's reason for not sailing to France is lame. I agree that the idea behind it might be good - he realizes that his "big moment" will be trivialized by seeing Buffy... But the bottmom line is that if he really loved her he would risk it. He would realize that the "image" of being a cool hero isn't as important as the "length and breadth and depth of love" that would remain after that image was weakened or destroyed. By having Spike refuse to face Buffy, even "off camera," the writers are negating a lot of Spike's development and character. First, the more "evolved" Spike wouldn't care so much about his image and would care more about Buffy. Second, the character of Spike wouldn't be afraid to take the chance. Now there are many good reasons to explain why Spike doesn't pursue Buffy. The writers need to settle on one or more that makes sense. This doesn't, IMO. I'm still smarting over the lameness of the excuse for the lack of contact between Spike and Buffy. I wonder whether the HARM'S WAY writers (Fain & ?) thought it up (they're not the best writers in the JW stable) themselves or if JW or someone else did.
I can spin Spike's excuse into something that makes remote sense by remembering that for the past six months or so he's been in practically helpless, and listening to Angel reject him, tell him how awful he is and how Buffy loved Angel more or how Spike didn't do much to help Buffy, etc. As a result, we saw Spike questioning his own heroism in the scene where he told Fred that he didn't do much in the last battle against the First, just 'stood there'. Maybe Spike truly believes now that he isn't right for Buffy, that she never loved her, that there's no future for them.
Another spin is that Spike is getting tired of competing with Angel. He's just won the Cup contest; yet told Angel that Angel could keep the Shanshu. I wonder if Spike is questioning his own feelings and motivations to the point of wondering how much of his love for Buffy was real and how much was sparked by her prior love for Angel. Introspection is rare for Spike, and could lead to better things, or whining self-doubt. GAIL
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Post by Vlad on Jan 18, 2004 8:25:29 GMT -5
First off, let me thank everyone for their exceptionally kind words about my first attempt at a review. I must admit that I was nervous about penning one when so many great ones have gone before me. Also, with the likes of Nan, and Spring, and so many other observent non-fiction writers occupying this board, I was a little intimidated. How could I possibly write anythign to measure up to their skills? So thanks! I enjoyed the experience and I am glad you have all found something worthy in it. I would now like to go thru some of the points many of you have made: The consideration of that crossed my brain as I was writing my review. In the course of writing, I rewatched key Harmony scenes from the AtS Season 5 premeire as well as the Harmony scenes from BtVS Season 4 & 5. In the season premeire, Wesley gives Angel a "look" when he tells him the "familiar face" line. I am still unsure what it meant. However, your suggestion makes some sense, as does the idea that it might actually be beneficial for Angel...to see another vampire actually trying to be good..or at least not "evil." Eitehr way, I think it a fascinating study and ,unlike many, I don't believe it goes against Joss vampire canon...I believe it enhances it. Each creature is unique and this is a "Harmony" vampire. I think we are supposed to question what a soul means, and its importance and even if Buffy's job as Slayer was so darned "good and righteous" after all. Perhaps with love and care, many of those she staked could have become honest citizens. Maybe this whole thing is a metaphore for the struggle against the death penalty? *shrugs* I think BtVS and AtS may be exploring a lot of ideas and issues through the veil of fantasy. And doing it in a very non-transparent way. No doubt about it...some of hte best TV ever written. I like that idea Rob! Angel used to function under the "save 'em one at a time" philosophy. Now he is into the corporate world where numbers matter. Yet, right in front of him is a creature that is trying very, very hard to be good. Can she do it? Who knows? But I know her chances have to be better with a helping hand and some belief in her. Yet, Angel, til possibly this episode, has overlooked this startling opportunity to save someone. Just liek he was able to set Faith on the right path, he has that opporunity here again. Will he accept the challenge or write it off as not "worthwhile" and no percentage in it. I think what he does here will be a good indicator of many things to come from him. Thank you Cal! Yes, I think we need much more closure on the Buffy/Spike issue beyond this mention. To set the record straight, I wasn't nuts about how it was handled myself. My first reaction was "oh man.. damn.. that jsut sucks." It was after repeated viewings and focussing on what he was actually saying that I learned to appreciate it more. If you look at it in the context of him trying to help Harm, it takes on a decidedly different tone. He knows Harmony is no intellectual heavy weight so "he kept it simple for her." And i think there is a lot of half truth in what Spike said aobut hte hero thing. At the very least, I think he wants to convince himself that is the reason while he has other doubts. I would also liek to officially welcome you to the S3, Cal. I have read your posts and I think you are fitting in here great! I am sorry I haven't had a chance to really meet you before, but such is the life of hte Arch-Technopagan. I feel a lot of empathy for Angel anymore. *L* Ellie... what can I say? I love the fact that you read and re-read my review. I will pretend it was becausae you wanted to mull my ideas over and not because you were trying to make sense of my ramblings *wink* Seriously, thank you for the very sweet words. I am glad that maybe I altered your percption of Harmony somewhat. I know that this episode did that, infact, for me. The quote from whistler is one of my personal favorites. While it's not an entirely original idea at all, i too find it well phrased and thoughtful. And, in my own opinion, very true. *Laughing so hard* I had completely missed that it could be taken that way. And what is so funny about that is that I replayed that snippit many times for a reason beyond it jsut being funny. The audio is "off" there... It's obviously a "dub over" as Angel walks into his office. I thought to myself that they must have simply had to dub it because his back was turned to the mic...but now I find myself wondering. Was it a sly jab at SMG for deciding to not appear on Angel? The way that Spike chuckles in response jsut didn't seem correct for what was said. I wonder if they, in fact, said soemthign else there and at the last minute over dubbed it with the cute line that we all heard. I would like to see a shooting script for this episode for that reason alone. I would not have put it past Whedon to slip that little jibe in like that, as a very, very inside joke that is "deniable." Thank you for pointing it out to me and everyone else. Oh listen to you! You palmed THIS one off on me back around episode 5, you sly vixen! And THANK YOU! *L* I am so happy that I got this particular one. It was such a great episode that the review was ... well not easy to write, but I didn't have to really look hard for somethign to make it interesting. It was nice really liknig the episode that I had to watch multiople times. *L* As to when will I do another? I don't know...I am agreeable to writing another one or two this season but I'll have to think about when. Probably one in the later teens, perhaps. * * * * * * Well, that about does it. I know I didn't respond to everyone that brought up great points and I might yet still. Alas, I am tired and my brain is pretty well shot for now. I hope everyone keeps talking. Vlad
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Post by Cal on Jan 18, 2004 19:43:21 GMT -5
Thanks for your kind words of welcome Vlad! I am enjoying being part of such a friendly group. It is by far the most interesting site that I have visited. I am looking forward to getting to know you all better and to making lots of contributions! I am still a little shy, but I am sure that I will get over that! I have enjoyed reading all of the reviews, essays, fiction etc. so far. A very talented bunch of people, I must say Cal
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Post by Reetta on Jan 19, 2004 10:39:40 GMT -5
I can't think of much that has not already been said, just wanted to add my job well done to you, Vlad. I thoroughly enjoyed reading your examination of Harmony's character.
I never expected I would enjoy a Harmony-centric episode as much as I did. I still have my reservations about her, but I do now care a bit more about what happens to her in the next episode than I used to. And now that I think about it, I never really thought about what drove her to act the way she acted before this episode. So, I'd say that the episode accomplished its task and your review helped me to understand it a little bit better.
I also like yours and Rob's theory about how Harmony might choose between good and evil and how she is capable of going either way in terms of the Big Conflict and how that might be combined with her group/herd mentality.
An excellent, excellent review (that's all I wanted to say really).
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Post by Nan-S'cubie Mascot on Jan 20, 2004 13:31:22 GMT -5
Really excellent, thoughtful and insightful review, Vlad. I made sure I'd completed my review before reading it, so as not to be influenced, making sure yours shone in its own well deserved light.
Your view of Harmony is kinder than mine. Somehow she hasn't sufficient angst or depth for me to take her anything but lightly as a character. At least your analysis persuaded me to consider her in her own terms, her own context, which always must be done to truly understand a character. And she will be (a bit) deeper and more poignant for me when next I see her because of your commentary.
I join the chorus of those hoping you'll contribute another review along the way.
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Post by thelittlestvampire on Jan 21, 2004 9:38:24 GMT -5
Hey VLad, asI said on the MB, great review!
I was thinking about point of view with this ep, and I wanted to see what people think.
This ep is told from Harm's point of view. I was just watching the Zeppo (for the first time, don't know how i missed it!) the other day and noticed how artfully that ep was done from Xander's POV.
Have there been any other ep's that used this? There was an ep about andrew that maybe fell into that category, but was nowhere as good.
Another thing that struck me is what you said about Harmony and the Cordettes as teenage girls. It occurred to me that those episodes were from the pouint of view of Buffy and the scubies. It made me wonder what HS would have looked like from the POV of those girls. As this ep shows, we are all the hero of our own mini-dramas.
I love the way this sort of ep goes between the heros, characters and story and an outsider's view. In the Zeppo- as Spring said in her review, Xander acts as a sort of everyman and allows the audience more access to the show. I'm not sure if the same was true of Harm's role, but then why would they show things from her perspective.
I assume it was to demonstrate one side of how Angel is perceived in his work world (by one person at least.)
Anyway, don't want to rant...too early on this coast for that,
TLV
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Post by LadyDi on Jan 21, 2004 19:22:08 GMT -5
I was actually a bit put out with the idea of Angel dissing Buffy, but everybody else seems to find it amusing. I must be taking this stuff too seriously again. Angel's been taking a lot of things for granted, Buffy and the shanshu included. Now he's in danger of losing either/both to Spike! "What if I'm not the one?" could just as easily apply to one situation as the other. Face it, Angelcakes, you're not all that and a bag of chips. It's time and past to get over yourself.
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Post by Kerrie on Apr 13, 2004 18:25:10 GMT -5
Excellent review, Vlad. I think it is a sign of an excellent reviewer when they can make something interesting out of a "fluffy" episode. Thankyou. You greatly enhanced my appreciation of the episode. I know it is off-track, but Harmony makes me think of Harriet Smith (another brainless, pretty girl) in Jane Austen's "Emma" and it seems to me that this type of person must be careful in choosing their associates if they want to be good, useful members of society. It also raises duty of care issues when they (the airheads) are so obviously incapable of choosing wisely for themselves.
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