|
Post by William the Bloody on Jan 29, 2004 15:43:02 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by Nickim on Jan 29, 2004 17:15:57 GMT -5
Great review, Patti. Nice to finally get some answers. The cup in Destiny may not have been THE CUP, but Spike is certainly getting tormented. I loved the interaction between Spike and Andrew. I'd like to see a spin-off with Spike, Andrew and a new Slayer.
|
|
|
Post by makd on Jan 29, 2004 17:40:41 GMT -5
Patti
terrific review, and so much fun to read!! And SPEEDY!!! You are GOOD!
Laughed out loud at this: " Why are our vamps starting to look older? – With Angel it's the guilt. With Spike it was apparently bad lighting, because he looked FINE this week."
ITA, ITA.
And, oh my soul, we need to thank the director, the dp, and the lighting engineer, because we could finally see that lovely expressioned face. So worth the time.
|
|
|
Post by Julia, wrought iron-y on Jan 29, 2004 18:10:28 GMT -5
Very good read, Patti.
So much damage on so many levels; I hope that when Angel says "Didn't you hear the man, we have our own problems?" at the end, he's thinking not only about the damage that was apparent in tonight's episode but the bigger unaddressed issue of damage to the trust and working relationships within the FG.
Julia, thinking deeply.
|
|
|
Post by LadyDi on Jan 29, 2004 18:30:13 GMT -5
Nicely done, Patti, nicely done.
Damage all around...continuing the theme of BtVS, with damage as a sort of contagion. Angel gave it to Buffy, Buffy gave it to Spike, Angelus gave it to Dru, who gave it to William, etc. Who among us hasn't picked up baggage due to relationships with others who have their own baggage? I really loved the last scene of this ep. Finally Angel and Spike have a real conversation, without even the awkwardness in Hellbound. I especially appreciate Spike's acceptance of what's happened to him. He's innocent (in this case) but very guilty and he knows it. One of my favorite lines... "I won't say you're right. 'Cuz I'm physically incapable of that."
|
|
|
Post by Cal on Jan 29, 2004 18:45:43 GMT -5
Great review, Patti! Nice to get some answers at last and to finally get an update on our favourite BtVS character's.
I loved this episode. From start to finish - although it was painful to watch at times. Andrew was brilliant and his love and admiration for Spike was great to see. The FG finally got to see that Spike was appreciated and cared about when he was in Sunnydale; that he did have friends who loved him.
I agree that Spike looked great in this episode. He was indeed "beautiful". And we got to see Spike at his most sensitive and expressive best - which was the side to Spike that I had missed most this season. But did he have to be mutilated like that for us to see it? That was so painful to watch!
I was so relieved when they managed to save Spike's hands. A Spike not being able to touch anything would have been more than I could stand. That side to him is such an integral part of who he is.
The scene at the end with Angel and Spike was wonderful. Both finally opening up to each other (a little, at least). This was definitely one of the best episodes of Angel that I have seen, and I have been a viewer since the very beginning.
I look forward to what is to come with baited breath.
Again, thanks Patti, for a wonderful review.
Cal
|
|
|
Post by Patti - S'cubie Cutie on Jan 29, 2004 22:03:52 GMT -5
Great review, Patti! Nice to get some answers at last and to finally get an update on our favourite BtVS character's. I loved this episode. From start to finish - although it was painful to watch at times. Andrew was brilliant and his love and admiration for Spike was great to see. The FG finally got to see that Spike was appreciated and cared about when he was in Sunnydale; that he did have friends who loved him. The scene at the end with Angel and Spike was wonderful. Both finally opening up to each other (a little, at least). This was definitely one of the best episodes of Angel that I have seen, and I have been a viewer since the very beginning. I look forward to what is to come with baited breath. Again, thanks Patti, for a wonderful review. Cal Thank you for the kind words Cal. I too loved this episode, and especially like what they did with Andrew's character, and the way they filled in the holes for us about our Sunnydale 'alums'as Andy called them. Not spoiled, but I just knew they wouldn't leave Spike with no hands (and is there some wood around for me to knock on?) - he's too good a fighter to waste him that way! What a great trip they are taking us on this season - in fact, to me, Angel has been more consistent in that way than BtVS was. (heresy!) Nicely done, Patti, nicely done. I really loved the last scene of this ep. Finally Angel and Spike have a real conversation, without even the awkwardness in Hellbound. I especially appreciate Spike's acceptance of what's happened to him. He's innocent (in this case) but very guilty and he knows it. One of my favorite lines... "I won't say you're right. 'Cuz I'm physically incapable of that." Glad you enjoyed it LadyDi! I was lucky to get an ep with a lot of comedy, though it was certainly dark enough as well. And I agree - that line was priceless. I wanted to quote them all, but that would have been a transcript instead of a review, so I stopped! *grin* Very good read, Patti. So much damage on so many levels; I hope that when Angel says "Didn't you hear the man, we have our own problems?" at the end, he's thinking not only about the damage that was apparent in tonight's episode but the bigger unaddressed issue of damage to the trust and working relationships within the FG. Julia, I agree, and I think they are addressing that - in the very beginning of the ep with that discussion about Eve and her 'alleged' attack on Angel, and at the end with Andrew's startling revelation of the opinion the Scoobies hold on the FG's association with WR&H. We're exactly halfway through the season now...I think the arc is developing just right... Patti terrific review, and so much fun to read!! And SPEEDY!!! You are GOOD! Laughed out loud at this: " Why are our vamps starting to look older? – With Angel it's the guilt. With Spike it was apparently bad lighting, because he looked FINE this week." ITA, ITA. Thank you makd! Kind words! And actually, I'm not so speedy...I just worked all night on it...from the time the show began til 6am then from 11am to right before Vlad posted it this afternoon...so it actually should be a lot better than it is! ;D Glad you agree - Spike was muy delicioso this week...and Andrew thought so too! Great review, Patti. Nice to finally get some answers. The cup in Destiny may not have been THE CUP, but Spike is certainly getting tormented. I loved the interaction between Spike and Andrew. I'd like to see a spin-off with Spike, Andrew and a new Slayer. Oh man Nicki! Now that would be a GREAT show! But...not Dana, ok? She was an excellent actress, but ...I think he deserves to hang with some sane chicks for awhile. (Cause Buffy...MUST have been nuts, right?
|
|
|
Post by Nan-S'cubie Mascot on Jan 30, 2004 2:37:58 GMT -5
Patti, a fine, lively review. When you see my review, you'll find you and I caught a lot of the same points. You were more concise, and undoubtedly funnier, in commenting on them. This one was the longest reviews I've done yet. All those crucial quotes to be recognized and saluted!
|
|
|
Post by Linda on Jan 30, 2004 4:14:18 GMT -5
Thank you, Patti, for your wonderful review. I have to admit that whenever I try to think about the episode, I have to stop and laugh about something Andrew said or did. I appreciate that your review also gave me some other hooks upon which to hang a few thoughts. You brought up so many good points, that in the interest of brevity, I'll just thank you for bringing up Gunn's comment about fingers and souls. It does sound ominous in retrospect. Just a random thought: I noticed that Angel's and Spike's respective methods of getting things done were actually complimentary. If they could have brought themselves to cooperate, combined the research with the instinct, they could have, perhaps, brought things to a slightly less damaging conclusion. (Although I think Andrew would still have smacked them in the end...hee.) Oh, and I just had to bring up one of my favorite Andrew bits: The demon horns gesture he did to Fred during his VamPYRE lecture. For some reason, it reminded me of Cordy's "Rm W/A Vu" cockroach "antlers." I just hope Andrew isn't prophetic in any way, shape or form... Linda, who is planning to watch the episode yet again...
|
|
|
Post by Karen on Jan 30, 2004 8:58:07 GMT -5
Patti - I really enjoyed your review. I had to laugh at your comment about a "spy" lurking among us. We got many answers and not a whole lot of new questions in this episode. One exception - "where's Faith?. I too loved hearing the "beloved names" that were woven back into the story. I feel sorry those who have never watched Buffy, because they are missing that feeling of belong to the Buffy family. Lots of laughs, and tender moments helped to balance out the pain and grief that was shown. I have missed the laughter lately. Even in "Harm's Way", although it seemed to be played for laughs, left me feeling sad. 'Damage' didn't. Like you said - we got to see Angel and Spike actually talk. "Not the end of the damage, but it's a good start." Very good insight! Thanks!!! PS. I rewatched 'Damage' last night and got a good laugh out of Spike's comment to Angel: "I'd give you the finger, but apparently I won't have the motor skills until the drugs wear off." I hope that "apparently" really means that he won't have trouble with those hands. Someone mentioned that the W&H doctors might have done more to Spike than reattach his hands. I hope Spike's comment was just being said for laughs.
|
|
Pet
S'cubie
Mmm..Thinkin' of you, Pet!!
Posts: 123
|
Post by Pet on Jan 30, 2004 16:34:13 GMT -5
Patti, I luved your review. Very lively and funny. I especially like the focus on damage. This cause me to review a lot of my thinking in that light. Your comments on Andrew...priceless. Like many of us, I grew very fond of Andrew in BtVS. Especially his singing..."I think you luuuuve them." But nothing gets me like him sucking on a juice box. Heeee!
Kudos.
|
|
|
Post by Sue on Jan 30, 2004 17:43:43 GMT -5
Patti,
I enjoyed your review. Especially because you so clearly enjoyed the episode so much. (I really dislike reviewers who seem to think the goal is to point out all the weak spots and stuff they didn't like.
My favorite section:
Damage…we see so much of it, and it's so widespread. Who fits into the category of the damaged in this episode? Pretty much everyone.
*The first Slayer – damaged by the demons who created her, and all subsequent slayers and potential slayers, who, we are reminded, experience vivid dreams, more like nightmares, of previous slayers, and who, if chosen, usually suffer short and violent lives. *Dana, the psychotic slayer who was tortured as a child, was perhaps irretrievably damaged. Dana looks very like our previous 'psychotic slayer' Faith – not only the eyes, the hair, the build, but the hospital gown, the escape from an institution, the 'waking' from a drugged or trancelike state. But here we see the real thing. Faith was a rock of reason compared to this literally tortured soul. *Spike is physically damaged. His hands are chopped off, to our horror, and we see the same images he saw in 'Hellbound' – he echoes the woman without arms, the man who severs his own fingers - we even hear those sounds, as Dana cuts off the head of the asylum guard. *Spike and Angel talk of the damage they caused to all those they hurt or killed during their vampire existence. *Gunn has surely been damaged – intellectually, mentally, and perhaps morally he is completely changed. And Gunn is wrong isn't he? Because he says We made it through with all our fingers and souls still attached'. It was fingers this week…is he equally wrong about the souls? *Spike and Angel were spiritually damaged by having been turned into "monsters". *The moral credibility of the Fang Gang has been damaged by their relationship with Wolfram & Hart. *And in something I never would have predicted, the emotional relationship between Buffy and Angel has been damaged by that same association.
Mostly because I hadn't paid any attention at all to the title of the episode, so hadn't given it any thought. That's a great list and very "spot on." Sums things up nicely.
Sue
|
|
|
Post by KMInfinity on Jan 30, 2004 18:39:22 GMT -5
Great review Patti - I too didn't notice the title, and hence missed that theme...
Why doesn't JW put the episode titles at the beginning of the show?
|
|
|
Post by Nan-S'cubie Mascot on Jan 31, 2004 8:04:52 GMT -5
Great review Patti - I too didn't notice the title, and hence missed that theme... Why doesn't JW put the episode titles at the beginning of the show? KM, I've always wondered that too. BtVS was the same, and Babylon 5--no ep titles unless you're online and can look them up. Anybody know why some series omit the titles in the episodes as shown, revealing them only online? I'll have to check whether TV Guide lists the ep titles in their listings.... I've looked, and TV Guide DOES list the episode by title. So it seems all the more wrong-headed that it's not shown in the episode itself.
|
|
|
Post by Patti - S'cubie Cutie on Jan 31, 2004 13:45:04 GMT -5
KM, I've always wondered that too. BtVS was the same, and Babylon 5--no ep titles unless you're online and can look them up. Anybody know why some series omit the titles in the episodes as shown, revealing them only online? I'll have to check whether TV Guide lists the ep titles in their listings.... I've looked, and TV Guide DOES list the episode by title. So it seems all the more wrong-headed that it's not shown in the episode itself. I've noticed that FX and TNT provide that info now (apparently) because its listed on my online cable guide, but last year, it wasn't - only the description was given. My spec on why Joss doesn't do that is...the title is a big piece of clueage about the episode, and he's very much into surprises. So they'd be onscreen spoilers...?
|
|