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Post by William the Bloody on Feb 16, 2004 6:06:33 GMT -5
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Post by Cal on Feb 16, 2004 7:53:02 GMT -5
Very interesting review, Rae. I wasn't sure if I liked this episode or not when I first watched it, but the more I watch and think about it, the more interesting I find it. There are some very interesting points raised in this story and I think that you have covered them very well in your review. I agree that Lawson wanted Angel to dust him. I also think that somehow, because Angel had a soul when he turned him, Lawson retained some of his humanity. I don't mean that he had part of Angel's soul, but that the demon within him wasn't as strong as it should have been. I think thats what I mean anyway  This wasn't the strongest episode of the season, but it was an interesting one. Again, thanks for a thoughtful and interesting review Rae. Cal |
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Post by SpringSummers on Feb 16, 2004 9:06:29 GMT -5
Nice job, Rae. I appreciate the effort that must have gone into organizing and researching.
I particularly liked your focus on Lawson's words: "There is a difference between following orders and purpose, Sir. I didn’t sign on because I needed directions." I loved that line . . . that last part. And I liked how you related it to Angel's "sign on" with W&H.
Also . . . Law's-son? Interesting catch.
Like you, I may not have this ep first on my "re-watch" list, but I thought it was enjoyable and well done.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this Rae, it was worth the wait!
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Post by Karen on Feb 16, 2004 10:09:23 GMT -5
Totally enjoyed your review, Rae! I liked this episode - and you helped me figure out why I was drawn into it. It was the great directing. We *feel* the disconnect between Angel and the FG because that's the way we are meant to feel by the way this whole season has been directed.
So, we didn't see the gang and Angel talk about Cordy - yeah, because they don't talk about the important stuff anymore.
- Who said this? No matter who did, it could pertain to each one of them. Fred is all about science - what is happening to her heart? Wesley is being absorbed into the magic - what is happening to his head? Gunn - all about the law - so what is happening to his muscle?
And Lorne - he doesn't sing anymore. What is he losing? I don't know.
And Angel - what isn't he using anymore?
Lawson said " - you reminding me of this gave me the shivers.
That last scene between Angel and Spike - he's got Angel's back - so I'm not worried. It's all gonna be ok in the end.
You've given me alot of food for thought here, Rae. Thanks so much for the effort, especially since I know you were shaken by the news of Angel's cancellation.
And I agree - dripping wet DB looked HOT in that black turtleneck.
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Post by raenstorm on Feb 16, 2004 10:32:11 GMT -5
Very interesting review, Rae. I wasn't sure if I liked this episode or not when I first watched it, but the more I watch and think about it, the more interesting I find it. There are some very interesting points raised in this story and I think that you have covered them very well in your review. I agree that Lawson wanted Angel to dust him. I also think that somehow, because Angel had a soul when he turned him, Lawson retained some of his humanity. I don't mean that he had part of Angel's soul, but that the demon within him wasn't as strong as it should have been. I think thats what I mean anyway This wasn't the strongest episode of the season, but it was an interesting one. Again, thanks for a thoughtful and interesting review Rae. Cal Thanks, Cal I'm not sure what I think about the humanity issue. I question whether the fact that Lawson had such strong purpose prior to becoming a vamp, if that affected his ability to enjoy being evil. On the other hand, I don't have enough proof from other vampire turnings to base that on (whether their human goals/soul/personality so greatly affect them as to change their capacity for enjoying vampirism). Either way, I'd agree something definitely was controlling the strength of the demon within him. |
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Post by raenstorm on Feb 16, 2004 10:40:34 GMT -5
Nice job, Rae. I appreciate the effort that must have gone into organizing and researching. I particularly liked your focus on Lawson's words: "There is a difference between following orders and purpose, Sir. I didn’t sign on because I needed directions." I loved that line . . . that last part. And I liked how you related it to Angel's "sign on" with W&H. Also . . . Law's-son? Interesting catch. Like you, I may not have this ep first on my "re-watch" list, but I thought it was enjoyable and well done. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this Rae, it was worth the wait! Thanks Spring - Glad you enjoyed. I, too, think (obviously!) it is interesting Lawson points out that he didn't sign on for directions... This is exactly what Angel is struggling with. Yes, he's the one in charge but, ultimately, he's not. We've even seen that hinted out throughout the season with Gunn making decisions, Eve forcing him to talk to Fred about her spending, and even Wes taking his place with Harm while he was upstairs trapped in his nightmares. |
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Post by raenstorm on Feb 16, 2004 10:49:05 GMT -5
Totally enjoyed your review, Rae! I liked this episode - and you helped me figure out why I was drawn into it. It was the great directing. We *feel* the disconnect between Angel and the FG because that's the way we are meant to feel by the way this whole season has been directed. So, we didn't see the gang and Angel talk about Cordy - yeah, because they don't talk about the important stuff anymore. - Who said this? No matter who did, it could pertain to each one of them. Fred is all about science - what is happening to her heart? Wesley is being absorbed into the magic - what is happening to his head? Gunn - all about the law - so what is happening to his muscle? And Lorne - he doesn't sing anymore. What is he losing? I don't know. And Angel - what isn't he using anymore? Lawson said " - you reminding me of this gave me the shivers. That last scene between Angel and Spike - he's got Angel's back - so I'm not worried. It's all gonna be ok in the end. You've given me alot of food for thought here, Rae. Thanks so much for the effort, especially since I know you were shaken by the news of Angel's cancellation. And I agree - dripping wet DB looked HOT in that black turtleneck. Thanks, Karen Something else about the directing I've noticed... or, just in general about the way we're seeing things, lately we've been seeing less and less of the hustle and bustle of W&H and just our Gang. Granted, this episode was supposed to be evening time so it's less likely there'd be people around but, past experience tells us that W&H employees tend to keep late hours. So, I think it is intentional... the isolation of everyone within W&H. Lawson made the comment about how you lose your mind if you don't use it... Which relates back nicely to Fred popping Angel's raisin of a heart into her mouth back in Soul Purpose (or taking away his soul). I wasn't thinking of it that way. Thanks Karen! I just liked Lawson referring to how he's lost a bit of his mind. |
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Post by Julia, wrought iron-y on Feb 16, 2004 11:15:18 GMT -5
Rae, Thanks for a great review; it's helped me organize my thoughts, and raised one issue I hadn't thought of before: What does Lawson mean when he says "Evil's spreading, and not just over there"? What evil has he seen "over here", I wonder? Was he a midwesterner who'd been disturbed by the strength of the German-American Bund? Was he from an agricultural valley in the west and saw all his Japanese schoolmates sent to internment camps? Or did he see the same evil Eisenhower described as "the military industrial class"? Or maybe the rising tide of television executives?  Julia, for an episode I couldn't actually enjoy, it's certainly interesting to think about |
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Tesla
Junior S'cubie
the ice is getting thinner
Posts: 11
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Post by Tesla on Feb 16, 2004 13:43:48 GMT -5
I can only be pleased that someone else liked DB
in that black turtleneck. And the hair. I think the
hair stylings in this season have been....random.
(and what up with Gunn having hair? That bugs me)
JM's hair in the flashback was evil in itself.
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Post by Patti - S'cubie Cutie on Feb 16, 2004 14:35:58 GMT -5
Rae, to reiterate what I told you privately - you did an outstanding job with this episode. It's no secret I disliked the ep very much on first viewing. Now, after the 3rd watching, I don't think it was so bad. It was still incredibly depressing, of course.
Your review though really sparked my mind - I love the way you approached it, the insights you gave - likening Hitler's hold on the populace with WR&H...
and my praise has nothing to do with the shout out you gave me. I'm not that shallow.
Excuse me while I go put on my Harmony avatar. *wink*
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Post by Nan-S'cubie Mascot on Feb 16, 2004 19:03:29 GMT -5
Rae, I thought you did a fine job on the review, independent of the trying circumstances. Your insights into the directing and shot/angle choice is something I didn't (and wouldn't) notice, and so was particularly interesting to me.
That's one of the delights of the guest reviews, and of the S'cubie board in general: although each of us can only see what we can see, we bring such a variety of perspectives that the result is multi-faceted and discursive--more than any of us could observe alone.
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Post by makd on Feb 16, 2004 20:22:17 GMT -5
Rae
Terrific review! Thank you so much for writing it; your analysis was not just entertaining; it was insightful. Really appreciate it!
Karen: "So, we didn't see the gang and Angel talk about Cordy - yeah, because they don't talk about the important stuff anymore." Ha! Bloody Ha! They don't TALK AT ALL anymore. Except: Fred is talking to Spike, and Spike talks to Angel. Guess Reborn!Spike is turning out to be needed after all.
On the losing if you're not using: ITA. Gunn has complained that he misses the fights; Lorne isn't doing the empath thing anymore; Angel has already admitted that he misses fists and fangs. Good point this: What are they not doing that they used to do? What are they losing: Their feeling of connectedness; their feeling of family; their mission. They are all on disconnect. Even Spike; he's trying to figure out why he's back and what's his purpose.
"That last scene between Angel and Spike - he's got Angel's back - so I'm not worried. It's all gonna be ok in the end." Absolutely. Spike clearly has Angel's back. In fact, I think Angel should hire Spike and Gwen to do the security.
Lastly: DB in a black turtleneck and black pants? mmmm. Angel.
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Post by makd on Feb 16, 2004 20:24:29 GMT -5
Rae, I thought you did a fine job on the review, independent of the trying circumstances. Your insights into the directing and shot/angle choice is something I didn't (and wouldn't) notice, and so was particularly interesting to me. That's one of the delights of the guest reviews, and of the S'cubie board in general: although each of us can only see what we can see, we bring such a variety of perspectives that the result is multi-faceted and discursive--more than any of us could observe alone. Right there with you, Scooter. And, starting in May - let's do reviews of previous seasons of Buffy and Angel? We can live the life..... |
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Post by Lola m on Feb 16, 2004 21:51:30 GMT -5
Rae - Very interesting points raised. And, as usual when I read a review, I’m most captivated by the angles others see that I missed completely. The propaganda idea, for example, that ties so neatly back to “Harm’s Way” and the opening “promotional” (just one step away from propaganda) W&H film. And the mention of overhead shots as a way to distance the viewer from the gang. As you point out, overhead shots of a group splitting are an excellent way to emphasize the separation between them all. It’s not as though this hadn’t been used to great effect in previous Buffy eps and I still hadn’t noticed it here. You have a very good eye……
And a nifty way with a quote. Loved your use of timely WWII era quotes that comment perfectly on the current W&H situation as well as your choices of notable lines from the show’s characters. I’ve mentioned it before, but I was struck right away by Lawson’s line “there’s a difference between following orders and purpose”. I think that line is key to what this whole season is about. But you also very nicely included the whole exchange between Angel and Lawson, reminding me of the two other important parts of that conversation: Lawson’s following line of “I didn’t sign on because I needed directions” and Angel’s “I don’t need you to understand every detail”. I definitely agree with you and everyone else that this last line is a reflection back to Angel’s mind-wipe.
Gosh – you all just keep giving me more and more to think about!
Lola
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Post by LadyDi on Feb 17, 2004 1:31:21 GMT -5
Rae, thanks for the background on Capra's Why We Fight. I've heard of it, but never seen it. Can't say I'm big on militaryl/war stuff.
Watching this season so far, I keep thinking about the saying: Lead, Follow, or Get Out of the Way. Angel leading (where?); the FG following (why?); Spike getting in the way (always). And thank the PtB he is. Spike and Mulder - yeah, I know - getting in the way. More power to 'em.
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