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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on Feb 28, 2004 20:26:11 GMT -5
Spring, this was brilliant - short and to the point, laying out one good insight after another. You have nothing to apologize for, this was a great review. Brava!
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Post by SpringSummers on Feb 28, 2004 20:27:13 GMT -5
Great review SpringSummers. Its groovy. Im a Spikester myself and love the Spikification of AtS. Right there with you. Exactly so. Spike helped Buffy love and accept her darkside and start on her way to becoming whole. I think he'll be a part of doing the same for Angel (assuming Joss gets the chance to fulfill his plans for the character - that's certainly where I think he was going with this). And a big welcome from me too, Ajonah. Thanks for your positive feedback and insightful comments. Please hang up your coat and stay awhile.
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Post by SpringSummers on Feb 28, 2004 20:31:32 GMT -5
"Travel light," my a$$!
Spring, this review had all of your usual depth and insights -- you explored nuances that would otherwise be unremarkable, and revealed them for the crucial plot points that they really are.
Nice job! Buona serra, "me, not logging in." Come' stai? Thanks for your comments. They are reassuring because really . . . I am used to ruminating and having time to add detail, and rewriting and reorganizing a bit . . . so it was a little worrying to let it fly.
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Post by SpringSummers on Feb 28, 2004 20:35:15 GMT -5
Spring, in reading your review I have come to the following conclusions: 1. You are incapable of delivering a simple review. 2. No matter how short or simple you proclaim it to be you will peel away layers and expose the layers within the layers and then the layers beneath those. 3. The damn thing will have to be reread a time or two and preferably while the episode in question is playing. 4. Anything you write will be full of surprises. 5. You will be spot-on every single time. This leads me to make a suggestion... ....keep up the good work! Because, as usual, I loved it. Thanks Diane. I tried to "boil it down" without sacrificing quality, and your opinion that I have met with success means a lot to me. It help me want to keep up the good work. My "No Place Like Home" analysis is in to Vlad, and I watched "Family" today. I felt really down after the cancellation news, and like I wanted to quit, but you all have been great with the positive thinking and encouragement.
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Post by SpringSummers on Feb 28, 2004 20:37:42 GMT -5
Spring, this was brilliant - short and to the point, laying out one good insight after another. You have nothing to apologize for, this was a great review. Brava! Gracie! I love to be told "brava!" because it was what my mom (who was from Italy) always said to me when she was really pleased with something I had done and wanted to encourage me. So it always gives me that special warm feeling to hear "brava!" in response to an effort.
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Post by makd on Feb 28, 2004 22:29:44 GMT -5
Gracie! I love to be told "brava!" because it was what my mom (who was from Italy) always said to me when she was really pleased with something I had done and wanted to encourage me. So it always gives me that special warm feeling to hear "brava!" in response to an effort. okay...I was going to say, "Excellent!", or maybe even, "good on you, Spring", but.... BRAVA! will do just fine. I like that you found the layer underneath the surface to write about: it's not just the straight story - it's the story..... Most of my comments, I think, are on the Main Board. I am still ruminating about what happened. I was never a major Fredite, but, as the only female cast member (I am not counting Harmony and Eve, since their characters are "recurring", not regular --- oh, and since they are both highly "irregular".), I am particularly stunned that Fred would die - and be replaced by a demon that would take over her body (a la Cordelia in Season 4). At the same time, I am suspending judgment of The Joss until such time as the season ends and I am able to see his reasons for the change. I am certain this wasn't done to expand and enhance AA's acting resume or to de-bore the fans. First - AA's acting resume is already quite nice, thank you, makd; Second - Angel fans are noway bored! this has been a great season!! So...why do this? what powers does Illyria possess that, coupled with Fred's strength and intelligence and bravery, will be needed in the upcoming End-of-Season-Apocalypse? (I will NOT say end-of-series until the last show has aired and the sets have been struck. Just sayin, you know: Angel ain't dusted YET.) I think that's key to understanding Fred's not-a-death-but-a-transformation. 'Cause, no death here; not this girl; not this day. Not death; transformation -- into something stronger, we can see this; into something that I am very sure will be used FOR Team Angel, not against it...
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Post by SpringSummers on Feb 28, 2004 23:44:50 GMT -5
okay...I was going to say, "Excellent!", or maybe even, "good on you, Spring", but.... BRAVA! will do just fine. I like that you found the layer underneath the surface to write about: it's not just the straight story - it's the story..... Most of my comments, I think, are on the Main Board. I am still ruminating about what happened. I was never a major Fredite, but, as the only female cast member (I am not counting Harmony and Eve, since their characters are "recurring", not regular --- oh, and since they are both highly "irregular".), I am particularly stunned that Fred would die - and be replaced by a demon that would take over her body (a la Cordelia in Season 4). At the same time, I am suspending judgment of The Joss until such time as the season ends and I am able to see his reasons for the change. I am certain this wasn't done to expand and enhance AA's acting resume or to de-bore the fans. First - AA's acting resume is already quite nice, thank you, makd; Second - Angel fans are noway bored! this has been a great season!! So...why do this? what powers does Illyria possess that, coupled with Fred's strength and intelligence and bravery, will be needed in the upcoming End-of-Season-Apocalypse? (I will NOT say end-of-series until the last show has aired and the sets have been struck. Just sayin, you know: Angel ain't dusted YET.) I think that's key to understanding Fred's not-a-death-but-a-transformation. 'Cause, no death here; not this girl; not this day. Not death; transformation -- into something stronger, we can see this; into something that I am very sure will be used FOR Team Angel, not against it... Oh yay! Another "brava!" Thank you, makd. I am not spoiled so I could surely be dead wrong, but I don't think there's any "Fred" left in that shell - not her strength, not her intellegence, not her bravery. Illyria may or may not be Season 5's Big-Bad, and I do think "her boys" will bring Fred back, but I think Fred is dead right now . . . dead and gone and that's just her shell that Illyria is using.
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Post by Karen on Feb 29, 2004 0:20:05 GMT -5
Gosh darn it, Spring. That Cat Stevens song always makes me tear up. Very appropriate. Poor, sweet, endearing Fred. A child dying is the worst kind of pain - and to be so helpless to stop the inevitable and to have to sit by and let it happen, just compounds the despair. Fred dying by mystical means might mean that she can be brought back - but at what price? I liked your "our Hostile Sub-Terrestrials, as Riley might call them, are uncomfortable up so high, in the rarified air (creatures of the night, saving the day - cavemen turned astronauts, airborne pathogens)". I never thought about how much they really are out of their element. W&H is affecting them. Can they work together to cut off its head? Today I watched the episode where Anya takes back her vengeance and Halfreck pays the price. I wonder if we'll see Angel try to get out of his contract with W&H - and what the price will be. Thanks, Spring. Your review rocked! Brava!
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Post by Linda on Feb 29, 2004 4:09:49 GMT -5
Hi Spring, Most excellent review. I am in awe, especially in your proving that speed AND depth are not mutually exclusive. And I appreciate your point at the end that all of them are both caveman and astronaut. It reminds me of one of the messages I got out of Damage: Heart & head -- you need both to survive. Not one or the other. Both. And thanks for Whistler's words. In my mind, I also compared the inevitable pain that Angel, Wes, Gunn, Lorne & Spike will be going through to the devastation that Buffy faced in Becoming. Things will never be the same for any of them, even when (not if!) Fred comes back. I only hope that we'll all be able to share in their journey beyond the seven remaining episodes this season. Linda, who loved this episode, despite the colossal Jossian pain. P.S. Brava!
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Post by SpringSummers on Feb 29, 2004 9:09:46 GMT -5
Gosh darn it, Spring. That Cat Stevens song always makes me tear up. Very appropriate. Poor, sweet, endearing Fred. A child dying is the worst kind of pain - and to be so helpless to stop the inevitable and to have to sit by and let it happen, just compounds the despair. Fred dying by mystical means might mean that she can be brought back - but at what price? I liked your "our Hostile Sub-Terrestrials, as Riley might call them, are uncomfortable up so high, in the rarified air (creatures of the night, saving the day - cavemen turned astronauts, airborne pathogens)". I never thought about how much they really are out of their element. W&H is affecting them. Can they work together to cut off its head? Today I watched the episode where Anya takes back her vengeance and Halfreck pays the price. I wonder if we'll see Angel try to get out of his contract with W&H - and what the price will be. Thanks, Spring. Your review rocked! Brava! Thanks, Karen. I hadn't thought about what price Angel might have to pay, to "take back" what he's wrought with the mind-wipe and associated badness. He's paying everyday right now, with his disassociation from everyone. I don't think Joss is ready to resolve things for Angel by the end of Season 5, the way he was for Buffy at the end of Season 7. At the end of 7, Buffy is on her way to true integration of the self, and adulthood. She's learned to accept and love and respect her darkside, she's understood that the freedom to become your true self comes from sharing the burden and accepting the world and others as they are, rather than trying to Master it all. Angel seems to be making this journey as well, with a stronger and wiser Spike-guide by his side than Buffy had, so I think Angel's journey will be uniquely his, not an exact copy of Buffy's. But surely he is heading for the same realizations. Just not by the end of the season, though. Dammit! This just has to get picked up. It's not ready to end in 7 eps. I want Joss to get the opportunity to wrap it up the way he wants to wrap it up.
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Post by SpringSummers on Feb 29, 2004 9:14:57 GMT -5
Hi Spring, Most excellent review. I am in awe, especially in your proving that speed AND depth are not mutually exclusive. And I appreciate your point at the end that all of them are both caveman and astronaut. It reminds me of one of the messages I got out of Damage: Heart & head -- you need both to survive. Not one or the other. Both. And thanks for Whistler's words. In my mind, I also compared the inevitable pain that Angel, Wes, Gunn, Lorne & Spike will be going through to the devastation that Buffy faced in Becoming. Things will never be the same for any of them, even when (not if!) Fred comes back. I only hope that we'll all be able to share in their journey beyond the seven remaining episodes this season. Linda, who loved this episode, despite the colossal Jossian pain. P.S. Brava! Two more bravas! I am cookin'! The Fred-choice for Angel reminds me more of the choice Buffy faced for Dawn, in The Gift, than the one she faced for Angel in Becoming, though these are very similar. I lean toward The Gift though, because Angel is more in the same place that Buffy was, emotionally, at the end of Season 5, I think - on the edge of feeling about life in general as he said he was feeling about Spike's presence: He just can't take it anymore. He can't take dealing with Spike anymore - Spike, a metaphor for the very gritty, very real world, if there ever was one. He's "SPIKE" not "ANGEL"- he lives in THIS world, he pins you right to the ground.
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makd just before brekkie
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Post by makd just before brekkie on Feb 29, 2004 9:55:04 GMT -5
Two more bravas! I am cookin'! The Fred-choice for Angel reminds me more of the choice Buffy faced for Dawn, in The Gift, than the one she faced for Angel in Becoming, though these are very similar. I lean toward The Gift though, because Angel is more in the same place that Buffy was, emotionally, at the end of Season 5, I think - on the edge of feeling about life in general as he said he was feeling about Spike's presence: He just can't take it anymore. He can't take dealing with Spike anymore - Spike, a metaphor for the very gritty, very real world, if there ever was one. He's "SPIKE" not "ANGEL"- he lives in THIS world, he pins you right to the ground. So very true, Spring. That's one of the character's traits that's so attractive: Spike is the most alive "dead" character we've ever seen! I don't think William was as alive when he was breathing!
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Post by Lola m on Feb 29, 2004 15:05:39 GMT -5
"Travel light," my a$$!
Spring, this review had all of your usual depth and insights -- you explored nuances that would otherwise be unremarkable, and revealed them for the crucial plot points that they really are.
Nice job! Had to quote this because it so sums up my reaction to your review. You followed the advice given to the gang - don't waste time - and got right to the soul of this ep. While also linking it into the arc of the season as well as one of the underlying meanings of the whole series. Live your life until the last moment. It was time for the whole fang gang to get crackin', and they did. A big brava to you (especially taking this on at the last minute). And a big bravi to the whole cast of Angel - every single one of them did a phenomenal job with this one. Lola
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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on Feb 29, 2004 15:21:27 GMT -5
So very true, Spring. That's one of the character's traits that's so attractive: Spike is the most alive "dead" character we've ever seen! I don't think William was as alive when he was breathing! Eetah! "School Hard", going off with Dru to watch the telly. That wonderful speech about how much he loves our world. "Becoming", wasn't it? Watching TV with Joyce, telling scary stories to Dawn. Trying to fight for good. Spike relishes his (un)life, he loves being a vampire, he's happy in his own skin. Which raises an interesting question - given that Buffy accepted souled Spike, vampire and all, would he really Shanshu, given the choice? On the other hand, Spike might just take it as a new experience to be enjoyed. I hope we get to find out.
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Post by makd on Feb 29, 2004 16:58:25 GMT -5
Eetah! "School Hard", going off with Dru to watch the telly. That wonderful speech about how much he loves our world. "Becoming", wasn't it? Watching TV with Joyce, telling scary stories to Dawn. Trying to fight for good. Spike relishes his (un)life, he loves being a vampire, he's happy in his own skin. Which raises an interesting question - given that Buffy accepted souled Spike, vampire and all, would he really Shanshu, given the choice? On the other hand, Spike might just take it as a new experience to be enjoyed. I hope we get to find out. So do I, Matt; so do I. By the way, Hellmouthcentral is carrying a story about 19 of The WB's affiliates. Seems they are not happy campers about the non-renewal of Angel. Methinks our cards and letters are working - at least to the locals! Let's send out some more!!!
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