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Post by Cal on Feb 29, 2004 17:03:03 GMT -5
So do I, Matt; so do I. By the way, Hellmouthcentral is carrying a story about 19 of The WB's affiliates. Seems they are not happy campers about the non-renewal of Angel. Methinks our cards and letters are working - at least to the locals! Let's send out some more!!! Check out the article I posted on Angel's Saviors. It gives details of this info on the WB's affiliates and their support of Angel. Cal  |
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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on Feb 29, 2004 18:55:02 GMT -5
So do I, Matt; so do I. By the way, Hellmouthcentral is carrying a story about 19 of The WB's affiliates. Seems they are not happy campers about the non-renewal of Angel. Methinks our cards and letters are working - at least to the locals! Let's send out some more!!! Uh, makd, that was my post, not Matt's - Not to nitpick, but we really don't look anything alike, last I checked... |
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Post by LadyDi on Feb 29, 2004 18:58:16 GMT -5
Spring, knew you wouldn't disappoint. I had a song in mind for this ep. too - David Bowie's Space Oddity. The thing I really twigged to in the spoilers was the cavemen vs. astronauts debate between Spike and Angel. Ground Control (cavemen) to Major Tom (astronaut).
My first instinct pegged Spike as 'astronaut' and Angel as 'caveman.' Giving it more thought, I reversed my earlier call. Only Joss could manage it. Two such dissimilar characters who could quite easily be on either side of such a debate. Two characters who are a "bit of both." I guess we all are, really; why else would the arguement spread throughout W&H? How funny - how guy - to argue about such a (seemingly) ridiculous thing. How Joss to make it matter.
OTOH, your song choice works better for the ep's focus on Fred. Not a big Cat Stevens fan, ever since he came out in favor of the fatwa (sp?) against Salman Rushdie, but the song itself is very evocative.
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Post by Nickim on Feb 29, 2004 19:07:30 GMT -5
Great review, as always, Spring. I like the point you made about the caveman being in his element, knowing his environment. The astronaut can't be in his element. He'd die without artificial support and can't even begin to change that situation. The Fang Gang need to get back to their element--fighting evil and helping people.
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Post by SpringSummers on Feb 29, 2004 20:10:36 GMT -5
Spring, knew you wouldn't disappoint. I had a song in mind for this ep. too - David Bowie's Space Oddity. The thing I really twigged to in the spoilers was the cavemen vs. astronauts debate between Spike and Angel. Ground Control (cavemen) to Major Tom (astronaut). My first instinct pegged Spike as 'astronaut' and Angel as 'caveman.' Giving it more thought, I reversed my earlier call. Only Joss could manage it. Two such dissimilar characters who could quite easily be on either side of such a debate. Two characters who are a "bit of both." I guess we all are, really; why else would the arguement spread throughout W&H? How funny - how guy - to argue about such a (seemingly) ridiculous thing. How Joss to make it matter. OTOH, your song choice works better for the ep's focus on Fred. Not a big Cat Stevens fan, ever since he came out in favor of the fatwa (sp?) against Salman Rushdie, but the song itself is very evocative. Agree - it seems obvious from the way Spike and Angel are arguing that Spike is the caveman and Angel is the astronaut type, but it is somewhat more complex than that. Spike, in his way, is much more adapted to today's world and at ease with techonology than Angel; and there are ways that Angel is more instinctual and less hesitant than Spike can sometimes be. Note that at the end, when Spike mentions New Zealand, he is doing what Angel suggested he didn't know how to do - look at the big picture. And Angel has been doing what Spike suggested he couldn't do - going from the gut to do what he needs to do for Fred. CAT STEVENS: I know very little about his politics or religion, though I know it's been through some changes and he is . . . Muslim (?). But no matter how many changes his beliefs may go through, or what he may do from this day onward, his early work remains the same - nicely done, moving, and indicative of a true, unique, and original talent. |
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Post by SpringSummers on Feb 29, 2004 20:13:35 GMT -5
Great review, as always, Spring. I like the point you made about the caveman being in his element, knowing his environment. The astronaut can't be in his element. He'd die without artificial support and can't even begin to change that situation. The Fang Gang need to get back to their element--fighting evil and helping people. Thank you, Nicki - glad you liked it. Interesting point about the astronaut can't "be" in his element at all - must have artificial support. Sounds so much like Gunn trying to fit in at W&H. |
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Post by Matthew on Mar 2, 2004 1:15:12 GMT -5
Uh, makd, that was my post, not Matt's - Not to nitpick, but we really don't look anything alike, last I checked... I adore you, Anne, for the reason that makd mistook you for me -Matthew |
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Post by makd guesting on Mar 2, 2004 10:14:21 GMT -5
I adore you, Anne, for the reason that makd mistook you for me -Matthew  I am SO embarrassed! How could I have ever thought that Matt was Anne? Could it have been old age (mine)?  or...Matt's 4" heels? ;D Apologies all round to both of you.  |
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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on Mar 2, 2004 10:28:30 GMT -5
I am SO embarrassed! How could I have ever thought that Matt was Anne? Could it have been old age (mine)? or...Matt's 4" heels? ;D Apologies all round to both of you. Apology accepted, makd Have to say, Matt looks way better in that dress than I would  , and as for 4" heels  - Birkies for me, thanks! |
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Post by LadyLavinia on Sept 1, 2004 15:16:29 GMT -5
I have a few problems with this episode:
1) Wes and Fred's relationship - BORING as hell! They must be the most boring and infantile couple in Jossverse history.
2) Fred's death scene - unecessarily long. I found myself longing for her death.
Other than the above mentioned points, this was a very interesting episode. The whole cavemen vs. astronaut was very interesting. It's strange, considering the show has established Angel's tendency to think things through, in compare to Spike's rashness. And yet, it seemed as if the two had changed places.
*Note - was Fred in love with Wes? Or was she in love with the idea of someone being in love with her? I had the feeling that the latter was closer to her true feelings.
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Post by S'ewing S'cubie on Sept 4, 2004 17:23:17 GMT -5
I have a few problems with this episode: 1) Wes and Fred's relationship - BORING as hell! They must be the most boring and infantile couple in Jossverse history. 2) Fred's death scene - unecessarily long. I found myself longing for her death. Other than the above mentioned points, this was a very interesting episode. The whole cavemen vs. astronaut was very interesting. It's strange, considering the show has established Angel's tendency to think things through, in compare to Spike's rashness. And yet, it seemed as if the two had changed places. *Note - was Fred in love with Wes? Or was she in love with the idea of someone being in love with her? I had the feeling that the latter was closer to her true feelings. Ah, Lavinia, to some of the members here you're skirting perilously close to heresy! I had the temerity to mention that I didn't think Fred was beautiful (where she's concerned, I think the issue of beauty is irrelevant) and heard a barrage of how wrong I was-isms. Nevertheless, I honor your opinion. I'm not sure if I agree with your assessment about the length of Fred's death scene, but I'm going to think hard about your feelings about Fred/Wes. |
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Post by cancergirl41 on Jun 15, 2005 13:46:34 GMT -5
If you would look at episodes like "Damage", it seemed to indicate that Angel - in the methodical way he had went about finding Dana - is the astronaut type; and Spike - in a more instinctual manner - was the caveman type. Yet, this episode seemed to hint that perhaps this image we have of the two vampires might be a facade . . . or a shell . . . and that we would have to dig a little deeper to know a person. Something that very few in our society might be willing to do.
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Post by SpringSummers on Jun 15, 2005 15:27:27 GMT -5
If you would look at episodes like "Damage", it seemed to indicate that Angel - in the methodical way he had went about finding Dana - is the astronaut type; and Spike - in a more instinctual manner - was the caveman type. Yet, this episode seemed to hint that perhaps this image we have of the two vampires might be a facade . . . or a shell . . . and that we would have to dig a little deeper to know a person. Something that very few in our society might be willing to do. Yes, the episode suggests that the issue is complex, as are Spike & Angel. Underneath it all after all, the "William" in Spike is hardly a caveman type, and the "Liam" in Angel is no astronaut. Thanks for your input cancergirl4. And WELCOME to the S3. Post away, in this thread or any other, any time! |
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, and as for 4" heels 
- Birkies for me, thanks!