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Post by William the Bloody on May 14, 2004 14:43:19 GMT -5
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Post by Patti - S'cubie Cutie on May 14, 2004 19:55:57 GMT -5
Spring, excellent review - well thought out, beautifully written as always. Brava, bella! (did I say that right?) I don't agree with you that Angel betrayed Drogyn or that he drank from a human, but as they say, 'results may differ.' I think that Drogyn was 'in on it' with Angel...I think they planned this together, that Drogyn sacrificed his immortality to help Angel get into the Black Thorn because Drogyn is good, and pure. When we see Drogyn speak to Spike and Illyria he is young and strong and has dark hair...and he tells them that Angel betrayed him. Next time we see him, he is being beaten by the Black Thorn, but I didn't even recognize him. He's losing his hair which is now lifeless and dull, his face is aged, he's clearly dying at a very swift pace. How can an Immortal die? I think this one can by telling a lie. I think he lied to Spike and to others about Angel being evil - and when he tells Angel 'thank you' I believe he means it - he is thanking Angel for his courage in facing evil for the world, and for stopping his torture. Angel drinks him, but Drogyn's not human. He is, or was an Immortal being, not a human one. I think Angel will come out of this series a hero and champion. Else we have five years of a tale without meaning. And Wesley said there is hope.
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Spring with a login that quit
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Post by Spring with a login that quit on May 14, 2004 20:35:53 GMT -5
Spring, excellent review - well thought out, beautifully written as always. Brava, bella! (did I say that right?) I don't agree with you that Angel betrayed Drogyn or that he drank from a human, but as they say, 'results may differ.' I think that Drogyn was 'in on it' with Angel...I think they planned this together, that Drogyn sacrificed his immortality to help Angel get into the Black Thorn because Drogyn is good, and pure. When we see Drogyn speak to Spike and Illyria he is young and strong and has dark hair...and he tells them that Angel betrayed him. Next time we see him, he is being beaten by the Black Thorn, but I didn't even recognize him. He's losing his hair which is now lifeless and dull, his face is aged, he's clearly dying at a very swift pace. How can an Immortal die? I think this one can by telling a lie. I think he lied to Spike and to others about Angel being evil - and when he tells Angel 'thank you' I believe he means it - he is thanking Angel for his courage in facing evil for the world, and for stopping his torture. Angel drinks him, but Drogyn's not human. He is, or was an Immortal being, not a human one. I think Angel will come out of this series a hero and champion. Else we have five years of a tale without meaning. And Wesley said there is hope. Patti - Thanks for the feedback. Angel is a hero; he's the star of the show; he's our champion. I agree that the plan was surely for Angel to come out of the series a hero and a champion . . . I'm just not sure it was the plan for the end of Season 5. And I agree there is hope - I just think the set up is for Angel to make it to another Season where he finds that hope, and gets back where he needs to be. Drogyn: So Angel lied to his friends, when he said that Drogyn wasn't in on it? Why would he do that? That Drogyn couldn't lie was an essential part of Angel's plan - according to what Angel himself said to Spike, et al. Even if you believe that Drogyn could and did lie, why would Angel lie to his friends? I do agree there is some wiggle room with the Drogyn thing, as far as whether he is really dead or not. Drogyn is a human given immortal life . . . I felt comfy calling his blood human blood. But again, I agree the point is unclear - I mean, whether it's kosher to really call Drogyn human. Angel calls him a "person," but that is somehow more generic, I think.
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Post by KMInfinity on May 15, 2004 7:45:59 GMT -5
I really liked the theme you focused upon in your review Spring! In some psych book or self help book I read something that stuck - amazing since most of it seemed phony and useless. It was the idea that, just as children "put on roles" when playing in order to figure out what they will be when the "grow up" all people, even adults sometimes (often?) need to "pretend" to be better than they really are in order to achieve/succeed/grow. For example, you may not have the courage to speak in public, but by "pretending" you do, you actually succeed and then you really do. The idea was also tied up in how that may work out negatively - if you are always whining about your troubles, just for attention, you may convince yourself you are overwhelmed and sink into despair. That's where I think Angel may be. I order to achieve a goal, he has to "pretend" to be evil - but that resonates sooooo closely to his spirit/soul that he is in danger of losing his rational understanding of his choice to do this thing, and so he fears he may become what he is only pretending to be. I was thinking, repetition is not always a bad thing. Shakespeare reused plots. Becoming.... I think the final episode here will be similar to BtVS 2; what are all of our people becoming? Is Angel becoming evil? or becoming a hero? or becoming human? Is Wes becoming cynical? becoming heartless? crazy? Is Gunn becoming the balanced action+intelligence guy he's always wanted to be? Is Illyria becoming Fred? or at least human? Is Lorne becoming a hero? or a morally ambiguous cypher? And, in counterpoint to all of this... What has Spike become? He's the character who already went through his "baptism by fire" and has been reborn. Throughout the season, he's been the one constant - the conscience of the group, the unambiguous hero. I still have hope....
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Post by SpringSummers on May 15, 2004 8:32:45 GMT -5
I really liked the theme you focused upon in your review Spring! In some psych book or self help book I read something that stuck - amazing since most of it seemed phony and useless. It was the idea that, just as children "put on roles" when playing in order to figure out what they will be when the "grow up" all people, even adults sometimes (often?) need to "pretend" to be better than they really are in order to achieve/succeed/grow. For example, you may not have the courage to speak in public, but by "pretending" you do, you actually succeed and then you really do. The idea was also tied up in how that may work out negatively - if you are always whining about your troubles, just for attention, you may convince yourself you are overwhelmed and sink into despair. That's where I think Angel may be. I order to achieve a goal, he has to "pretend" to be evil - but that resonates sooooo closely to his spirit/soul that he is in danger of losing his rational understanding of his choice to do this thing, and so he fears he may become what he is only pretending to be. I was thinking, repetition is not always a bad thing. Shakespeare reused plots. Becoming.... I think the final episode here will be similar to BtVS 2; what are all of our people becoming? Is Angel becoming evil? or becoming a hero? or becoming human? Is Wes becoming cynical? becoming heartless? crazy? Is Gunn becoming the balanced action+intelligence guy he's always wanted to be? Is Illyria becoming Fred? or at least human? Is Lorne becoming a hero? or a morally ambiguous cypher? And, in counterpoint to all of this... What has Spike become? He's the character who already went through his "baptism by fire" and has been reborn. Throughout the season, he's been the one constant - the conscience of the group, the unambiguous hero. I still have hope.... Great insights. Thanks for the feedback KMInfinitym- there were a lot of things going on in this episode, but the effects of pretense was the one that gripped me. I agree with your assessment of Spike as the constant throughout the Season - an interesting role for the guy whose arrival on BtVS always meant that all hell was about to break loose. AH - I love that character. Man, I am going to miss the Buffyverse.
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Post by Karen on May 15, 2004 11:27:14 GMT -5
Great insights. Thanks for the feedback KMInfinitym- there were a lot of things going on in this episode, but the effects of pretense was the one that gripped me. I agree with your assessment of Spike as the constant throughout the Season - an interesting role for the guy whose arrival on BtVS always meant that all hell was about to break loose. AH - I love that character. Man, I am going to miss the Buffyverse.*sigh* Me, too. *keeping fingers and toes crossed in Erinland for a Spike spin-off* Very nice review, Spring! Thank you so much for all your reviews this season of Angel. They always give me so much more food for thought. I've always loved Angel. I've especially enjoyed watching his growth and his setbacks and have really enjoyed watching his interaction with Spike this year. I like your statement about the power of what you pretend to be and that appearances can be devastating. That is what this whole season has been about. Image and the power it has, and how it can also destroy you. That's what has been happening to Angel and the FG ever since they took the deal with W&H. Angel hasn't liked being under W&H's yoke from the beginning - even though he tried control that power. Lorne and Gunn were the only ones who embraced W&H fully from the start. Fred and Wesley also had doubts, but were soon sucked in by the power. Fred especially suffered the effects by having her "image" or "appearance" completely taken over - literally. You said: Yes, Angel has been on that high wire. He's doing a balancing act ever since he took the deal with W&H. IMO when he says that he doesn't like what he sees or what he is, I think he's referring to what he's been doing all season - signing his name in blood, etc. - playing the W&H game. Now Angel is taking a stand. Something too awful to imagine happened - Fred was killed. It (along with a vision from the PTB) gave him the impetus to take that stand. He doesn't expect to come out of it alive, but I don't think he put his plan in motion because he has a death wish. Angel doesn't fear death - and that is growth in itself - because early on in BtVS - he was often fearful. In Amends, he was afraid to live because he thought that The First would be able to control him - and he was afraid of who he was. He wanted to die because it was too painful to live. It took Buffy to show him what real courage was - and faith. He doesn't want to die now. He's willing - but that's doesn't mean he has a death wish. It means he's a hero. He's been struggling for years to find his place and to come to terms with his dark side (I think he'll always have that struggle). He thought he could make W&H his own - maybe he still will. By disrupting the SPs minions on earth - the Black Thorn. Lindsey decribed them as, "The people that grease the wheels. Keep the parts in place. Make sure that man's inhumanity to man keeps rolling along." Angel's plan is not really such a wild plan or stupid plan. I'd compare it to a plan to disrupt a terrorist group to keep the terrorism at bay. You know you'll never rid the world of the evil that uses terrorism, but you have to fight it or get taken over by it. Angel doesn't like what he was becoming under W&H's name. He was becoming a part of W&H - and now he's making that horrible event matter - just like he decided to use Fred's death. He's using W&H's own inner circle to stop the wheels from turning. (I like that the Black Thorn symbol looks like a machine gear.) The PTB sent a vision through Cordelia. Angel then decided what he had to do. It was a good thing, if we are to believe that the PTB are working on the side of good. I don't think Angel's counting on the fall to kill him - but I do think that if need be, he would be willing to sacrifice himself. His statement that he wants to kill every --- single --- member of the Black Thorn worries me. He is a member now. Being branded like that is going to be something he'll have to live with if he does survive. In "Conviction", Angel said "They came to W&H because it was a powerful weapon. They'll figure out how to use it". Wesley said "Or kill ourselves with it." Prophetic? Which way will it be? Angel said that the odds are 10-1 that they're gone when the smoke clears. I'd take those odds - not good odds, but they can be beat. "Heroes don't accept the world the way it is." Spike never did. Angel doesn't either. I'm going to miss all of the Jossverses.
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Ajonah
S'cubie
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Post by Ajonah on May 15, 2004 11:41:09 GMT -5
Brilliant review.
I agree with others who have raised the point that these last few episodes seem rushed. Particularly Power Play. In fact the whole season whilst good in many many respects seems to be heading for an anti-climax.
When did Angel hatch to plan to infiltrate the Balck Thorn? Normally Angel would have been expected to go to Wesley and discuss his visions following the kiss with Cordy.
Back in the Hole in the World Droygn refused to answer any of Spike's questions but was happy to entertain Angel's questions. Had Angel and Droygn already began to hatch a plan to work together by then? Its a remote possibility but an explanation nevertheless.
I like the message being conveyed with Gunn's return to his old dress sense albeit with a spruced up brain. The message: we can beeter ourselves by aquiring new skills knowledge etc but not at the expense of who we already are and what we already have. Nice.
The evil female senator who wants be president of the United States in 2008 is clearly a reference to hilarry Clinton. In any event if the Black Thorn is so powerfull and the Senator is a member of that group why would she need Angel's help to smear her rival?
If im not mistaken Illyria is falling in love with Wesley, if not in love with him already. I dont think its just a matter of Fred's emotions/memories asserting themselves. I think its Illyria enjoying/liking the connection with Wesley. Perhaps this love is one of the reasons she is compelled to play on the game of life?
Lorne has been underused recently. He no longer has any purpose or function in the gang any more. if anyone, he should be the one that dies in the season finale.
Angel is smart but is he smart enough to hack into the magics to transmit coded warnings to Wesley and to pull the wool over the eyes of onlookers for 6 minutes? I doubt it. I think this is one of the reasons why the episode felt rushed.
Spike as always was cool. Great lines and his bonding with Illyria is promising. A Spike spin off will no doubt have Illyria as a regular character.
Talking of spin offs many have argued that Spike and others like Illyria are not strong enough characters to lead a successful spin off. Well no one wants a Buffy or Angel clone if there is a spin off. Spike Illyria and the likes of Andrew are about "cool" "style" and "humour". One interesting prospect is for the group to be working for the new Watchers' Council tackling the evil of the world at a global level. The Immortal cold pop up now and again to give Spike grief too.
Buffy, Angel, Spike and Fred have died and in a fashion resorrected. I wont loose sleep over whoever else dies in the last episode. He or she can always be ressorected again.
It is a testimony for how "good" and reliable a friend Spike is that he was the last one to doubt Angel and the first one to join him in the plan to kill the members of the Black Thorn.
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Ajonah
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Spikester
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Post by Ajonah on May 15, 2004 11:52:01 GMT -5
*sigh* Me, too. *keeping fingers and toes crossed in Erinland for a Spike spin-off* Very nice review, Spring! Thank you so much for all your reviews this season of Angel. They always give me so much more food for thought. I've always loved Angel. I've especially enjoyed watching his growth and his setbacks and have really enjoyed watching his interaction with Spike this year. I like your statement about the power of what you pretend to be and that appearances can be devastating. That is what this whole season has been about. Image and the power it has, and how it can also destroy you. That's what has been happening to Angel and the FG ever since they took the deal with W&H. Angel hasn't liked being under W&H's yoke from the beginning - even though he tried control that power. Lorne and Gunn were the only ones who embraced W&H fully from the start. Fred and Wesley also had doubts, but were soon sucked in by the power. Fred especially suffered the effects by having her "image" or "appearance" completely taken over - literally. You said: Yes, Angel has been on that high wire. He's doing a balancing act ever since he took the deal with W&H. IMO when he says that he doesn't like what he sees or what he is, I think he's referring to what he's been doing all season - signing his name in blood, etc. - playing the W&H game. Now Angel is taking a stand. Something too awful to imagine happened - Fred was killed. It (along with a vision from the PTB) gave him the impetus to take that stand. He doesn't expect to come out of it alive, but I don't think he put his plan in motion because he has a death wish. Angel doesn't fear death - and that is growth in itself - because early on in BtVS - he was often fearful. In Amends, he was afraid to live because he thought that The First would be able to control him - and he was afraid of who he was. He wanted to die because it was too painful to live. It took Buffy to show him what real courage was - and faith. He doesn't want to die now. He's willing - but that's doesn't mean he has a death wish. It means he's a hero. He's been struggling for years to find his place and to come to terms with his dark side (I think he'll always have that struggle). He thought he could make W&H his own - maybe he still will. By disrupting the SPs minions on earth - the Black Thorn. Lindsey decribed them as, "The people that grease the wheels. Keep the parts in place. Make sure that man's inhumanity to man keeps rolling along." Angel's plan is not really such a wild plan or stupid plan. I'd compare it to a plan to disrupt a terrorist group to keep the terrorism at bay. You know you'll never rid the world of the evil that uses terrorism, but you have to fight it or get taken over by it. Angel doesn't like what he was becoming under W&H's name. He was becoming a part of W&H - and now he's making that horrible event matter - just like he decided to use Fred's death. He's using W&H's own inner circle to stop the wheels from turning. (I like that the Black Thorn symbol looks like a machine gear.) The PTB sent a vision through Cordelia. Angel then decided what he had to do. It was a good thing, if we are to believe that the PTB are working on the side of good. I don't think Angel's counting on the fall to kill him - but I do think that if need be, he would be willing to sacrifice himself. His statement that he wants to kill every --- single --- member of the Black Thorn worries me. He is a member now. Being branded like that is going to be something he'll have to live with if he does survive. In "Conviction", Angel said "They came to W&H because it was a powerful weapon. They'll figure out how to use it". Wesley said "Or kill ourselves with it." Prophetic? Which way will it be? Angel said that the odds are 10-1 that they're gone when the smoke clears. I'd take those odds - not good odds, but they can be beat. "Heroes don't accept the world the way it is." Spike never did. Angel doesn't either. I'm going to miss all of the Jossverses. I agree with many of your points. Some thoughts: Angel said that the Black Thorn were the real powers. Are they more powerful than the Powers that Be? where are the Powers that be? Terrorism is an evil but not a good analogy for what Angel is doing. Angel did not set up, support, promote or otherwise cuase the Black Thorn to exist. On the otherhand those in the modern world who claim to be fighting terrorism either set up terrorist organisations, supported them, promoted them or otherwise cuased them to exist Yes evil exists and it should be faught but if it is faught in an evil way then its just a matter of evil fighting evil not good vs evil. This is why i think Angel insited that he was "still Angel" at the Black Thorn gatherng (he could easily have pretended that he was Angelus) so that it remains a good vs evil thing.
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Post by Karen on May 15, 2004 13:58:16 GMT -5
I agree with many of your points. Some thoughts: Angel said that the Black Thorn were the real powers. Are they more powerful than the Powers that Be? where are the Powers that be? Terrorism is an evil but not a good analogy for what Angel is doing. Angel did not set up, support, promote or otherwise cuase the Black Thorn to exist. On the otherhand those in the modern world who claim to be fighting terrorism either set up terrorist organisations, supported them, promoted them or otherwise cuased them to exist Yes evil exists and it should be faught but if it is faught in an evil way then its just a matter of evil fighting evil not good vs evil. This is why i think Angel insited that he was "still Angel" at the Black Thorn gatherng (he could easily have pretended that he was Angelus) so that it remains a good vs evil thing. Hi Ajonah! I like your ideas for a Spike spinoff. And having Illyria on board would be a lot of fun. Andrew is too much of a Spikester to be much of a truth-teller, but I suppose that could be Illyria's role. Amy Acker was really excited for a next season and so was JM. I'm hopeful. Who knows? I don't think that the Black Thorn are more powerful than the PTBs. The PTBs are on another plane - like Lindsey said the SPs are. I think that that Angel and the FG used to be the PTBs "instrument on earth", like the Black Thorn is the SPs'. The PTBs have been absent because it has seemed that Angel is working for W&H. Just like Buffy said - Angel is "working for the other side" now. But they have helped - by sending Cordelia and giving Angel a vision. He said that it didn't hit him "until later", so he couldn't have told Wesley right after the kiss. Maybe later on, he figured Wesley was in no condition to hear about it. And he wanted to suss out a plan alone, much like Wesley did when he took Connor from Angel. (They've never been much on sharing.) I do think Angel is smart enough to have made the glamour, though. He's done things like that before. (Or maybe he somehow contacted Willow and she helped him.) About evil fighting evil. As much as I don't like it, sometimes evil means are what it takes to fight evil, that is, if we are to consider weapons and armies as evil means. I'll have to think on your comment about Angel making sure that the Black Thorn knew it was Angel and not Angelus they branded. You mean that because Angel said that, it shows that Angel is sliding towards evil?
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Post by Guesting Josh on May 15, 2004 16:24:44 GMT -5
About evil fighting evil. As much as I don't like it, sometimes evil means are what it takes to fight evil, that is, if we are to consider weapons and armies as evil means. "I'm not talking about fighting the good fight here..." I beleive those were Angel's words. And he's certainly right. Doing more evil to fight an existing evil is, I think, by the definition of all the words involved, creating more evil. At best, he will be supplanting WR&H as the head of evil on the earth, which is what he clearly realizes when he tells Nina he's the thing that will hurt her, if not specifically her, then people in general. Angel has decided not to be an everyday, fight the good fight hero, just the guy in charge of controling it. Which is exactly what he has been all season, but perhaps only now understands.
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Post by SpringSummers on May 15, 2004 16:40:33 GMT -5
*sigh* Me, too. *keeping fingers and toes crossed in Erinland for a Spike spin-off* Very nice review, Spring! Thanks! I think it means both - I think he's a hero with a death wish - just as Buffy was at the end of Season 5 BtVS. One doesn't exclude the other. The plan to thwart evil, the willingness to sacrifice self = the stuff of heroes. Choosing a plan almost certain to kill you, along with other indications this season that he is very tired of the world, his virtual imprisonment through the curse, and the "dark side" of statements about not accepting the world = death wish. I never knew any Jossverse besides the Buffyverse (I consider Angel part of the Buffyverse) so I can't say I miss Firefly or any other effort. But oh how I will miss the end of seeing some of my favorite characters!
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Post by SpringSummers on May 15, 2004 16:44:27 GMT -5
Brilliant review. I agree with others who have raised the point that these last few episodes seem rushed. Particularly Power Play. In fact the whole season whilst good in many many respects seems to be heading for an anti-climax. When did Angel hatch to plan to infiltrate the Balck Thorn? Normally Angel would have been expected to go to Wesley and discuss his visions following the kiss with Cordy. Back in the Hole in the World Droygn refused to answer any of Spike's questions but was happy to entertain Angel's questions. Had Angel and Droygn already began to hatch a plan to work together by then? Its a remote possibility but an explanation nevertheless. I like the message being conveyed with Gunn's return to his old dress sense albeit with a spruced up brain. The message: we can beeter ourselves by aquiring new skills knowledge etc but not at the expense of who we already are and what we already have. Nice. The evil female senator who wants be president of the United States in 2008 is clearly a reference to hilarry Clinton. In any event if the Black Thorn is so powerfull and the Senator is a member of that group why would she need Angel's help to smear her rival? If im not mistaken Illyria is falling in love with Wesley, if not in love with him already. I dont think its just a matter of Fred's emotions/memories asserting themselves. I think its Illyria enjoying/liking the connection with Wesley. Perhaps this love is one of the reasons she is compelled to play on the game of life? Lorne has been underused recently. He no longer has any purpose or function in the gang any more. if anyone, he should be the one that dies in the season finale. Angel is smart but is he smart enough to hack into the magics to transmit coded warnings to Wesley and to pull the wool over the eyes of onlookers for 6 minutes? I doubt it. I think this is one of the reasons why the episode felt rushed. Spike as always was cool. Great lines and his bonding with Illyria is promising. A Spike spin off will no doubt have Illyria as a regular character. Talking of spin offs many have argued that Spike and others like Illyria are not strong enough characters to lead a successful spin off. Well no one wants a Buffy or Angel clone if there is a spin off. Spike Illyria and the likes of Andrew are about "cool" "style" and "humour". One interesting prospect is for the group to be working for the new Watchers' Council tackling the evil of the world at a global level. The Immortal cold pop up now and again to give Spike grief too. Buffy, Angel, Spike and Fred have died and in a fashion resorrected. I wont loose sleep over whoever else dies in the last episode. He or she can always be ressorected again. It is a testimony for how "good" and reliable a friend Spike is that he was the last one to doubt Angel and the first one to join him in the plan to kill the members of the Black Thorn. Thanks for the great thoughts and feeback, Ajonah, and so nice to hear from you! Don't know about if the Senator was a deliberate reference to Hillary, but speaking of references to the real world, I thought Angel's plan was very "suicide bomber" in the way he presented it: we're the underdogs, we can never really beat them, but we're going to get their attention, we're going to deal them a blow that will rock them."
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Post by SpringSummers on May 15, 2004 16:59:05 GMT -5
"I'm not talking about fighting the good fight here..." I beleive those were Angel's words. And he's certainly right. Doing more evil to fight an existing evil is, I think, by the definition of all the words involved, creating more evil. At best, he will be supplanting WR&H as the head of evil on the earth, which is what he clearly realizes when he tells Nina he's the thing that will hurt her, if not specifically her, then people in general. Angel has decided not to be an everyday, fight the good fight hero, just the guy in charge of controling it. Which is exactly what he has been all season, but perhaps only now understands. Hi Josh - good to hear from you. And I think this is heavily related to having a plan that means he isn't likely to have to live with himself when it's all over. And I don't mean this is a conscious plan of his; I mean it's no coincidence that he's letting himself turn into "the thing that will hurt you," while cooking up a plan likely to end in his destruction.
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Post by makd on May 15, 2004 19:09:03 GMT -5
Great review, Spring, as always. Your reviewing this episode is especially appreciated as we know your main project is the Spikecentricity column of reviews.
So little time, so much story to tell, and wondering if, aside from fanfic, we will ever finish the story....
Most of my comments are on the main board, so won't bore anyone here.
Just, continued concern about where Angel has gone and to where he is leading his friends.
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Post by Linda on May 16, 2004 6:52:04 GMT -5
Hi Spring!
Wow & brava!
Thank you for clarifying the central moral issue of the episode for me.
This is how I now see the episode: Angel's decision to perform those evil acts -- to become evil through action & omission, if not intention -- in order to effect the greater good is ALREADY a sacrifice on his part. His probable death in the upcoming fight is only a fraction of what he's paid to get to this point. He's let go of just about everything that made him Good. Because Good is more than just the opposition to Evil.
He's concentrating on this one goal of breaking the bad guy cabal. This is the ultimate fulfillment of the pronouncement he made to Lindsey in You're Welcome -- he's about beating the bad guys. Not about helping people anymore -- except indirectly.
Unless there's some deeper game within a game that he's playing (which seems like a very un-Jossian cop-out to me), the atonement he had to do in Season 2 will seem like paradise in comparison to what he'll be facing when he's still standing after the smoke clears.
Linda, although I admit I may have to revise my opinion when I see the next episode ...
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