|
|
Post by Cal on May 16, 2004 9:19:34 GMT -5
Thanks for a great review Spring! I don't believe that Drogyn was in on Angel's plan, either. Angel needed him to believe that he had gone bad so that the Black Thorn would accept him. I'm not sure how I feel about Angel's sacrifice of Drogyn. Hopefully, things will fall into place in the finale. (  ) I loved this episode. And it had lots of pretty Spike, which is always a good thing.  |
|
|
|
Post by Karen on May 16, 2004 10:07:21 GMT -5
Hi Spring! Wow & brava! Thank you for clarifying the central moral issue of the episode for me. This is how I now see the episode: Angel's decision to perform those evil acts -- to become evil through action & omission, if not intention -- in order to effect the greater good is ALREADY a sacrifice on his part. His probable death in the upcoming fight is only a fraction of what he's paid to get to this point. He's let go of just about everything that made him Good. Because Good is more than just the opposition to Evil. He's concentrating on this one goal of breaking the bad guy cabal. This is the ultimate fulfillment of the pronouncement he made to Lindsey in You're Welcome -- he's about beating the bad guys. Not about helping people anymore -- except indirectly. Unless there's some deeper game within a game that he's playing (which seems like a very un-Jossian cop-out to me), the atonement he had to do in Season 2 will seem like paradise in comparison to what he'll be facing when he's still standing after the smoke clears. Linda, although I admit I may have to revise my opinion when I see the next episode ... Linda, I know what you mean aoout maybe revising your opinion until the next episode. I've been doing that all season. Angel is sure in the gray area - just right where the SPs want him. When he is in that gray area, there is a chance that he'll step over to the dark side. I can't wait to see what is going to trigger him to step back from the edge. Or will he? We really need a 6th season. Power Play - it's like a big rush to "win". Where all rules are discarded and the only goal is winning - no matter what the cost. Video games are like that. You go along picking up rewards, etc all along the way - and then you make your move. And you are compelled to MASTER that game. Hmmmmm. The last hour will be his finest, the WB says. I hope that this is what we are going to see. |
|
|
|
Post by SpringSummers on May 16, 2004 11:50:11 GMT -5
Great review, Spring, as always. Your reviewing this episode is especially appreciated as we know your main project is the Spikecentricity column of reviews. So little time, so much story to tell, and wondering if, aside from fanfic, we will ever finish the story.... Most of my comments are on the main board, so won't bore anyone here. Just, continued concern about where Angel has gone and to where he is leading his friends. I have the same feeling - so much story left to tell. I have yet to find any fanfic that truly seems to me to possibly be "the story Joss would have told" if he had had the time. Or even seems to be trying to do that. Not that it can't be fun and not that some of it isn't marvelously in-character - but still, it's usually the story that the fanfic writer wanted to see told, without much real attempt to try to stay true with any set up there might be in the actual eps. I find very little comfort in fanfic, though maybe someone is out there who will really try to do "the Season 6 ME would likely have done," instead of "the Season 6 I just really wanted to see." |
|
|
|
Post by SpringSummers on May 16, 2004 11:55:38 GMT -5
Hi Spring! Wow & brava! Thank you for clarifying the central moral issue of the episode for me. This is how I now see the episode: Angel's decision to perform those evil acts -- to become evil through action & omission, if not intention -- in order to effect the greater good is ALREADY a sacrifice on his part. His probable death in the upcoming fight is only a fraction of what he's paid to get to this point. He's let go of just about everything that made him Good. Because Good is more than just the opposition to Evil. He's concentrating on this one goal of breaking the bad guy cabal. This is the ultimate fulfillment of the pronouncement he made to Lindsey in You're Welcome -- he's about beating the bad guys. Not about helping people anymore -- except indirectly. Unless there's some deeper game within a game that he's playing (which seems like a very un-Jossian cop-out to me), the atonement he had to do in Season 2 will seem like paradise in comparison to what he'll be facing when he's still standing after the smoke clears. Linda, although I admit I may have to revise my opinion when I see the next episode ... Thanks Linda. Great additional thoughts here. I like the way you put it "His probable death in the upcoming fight is only a fraction of what he's paid to get to this point." Yep. And a good point about Good being more than just the opposition to Evil. So very true. I must agree with everyone though, who is holding their breath and keeping final judgements about what is going on and what we're being told, until the finale. |
|
|
|
Post by LadyDi on May 17, 2004 13:29:33 GMT -5
I have the same feeling - so much story left to tell. I have yet to find any fanfic that truly seems to me to possibly be "the story Joss would have told" if he had had the time. Or even seems to be trying to do that. Not that it can't be fun and not that some of it isn't marvelously in-character - but still, it's usually the story that the fanfic writer wanted to see told, without much real attempt to try to stay true with any set up there might be in the actual eps. I find very little comfort in fanfic, though maybe someone is out there who will really try to do "the Season 6 ME would likely have done," instead of "the Season 6 I just really wanted to see." I understand how you feel. While some fanfic is quite good, it's just not the same. I'm almost as blue now as I was last year about this time. |
|
|
|
Post by makd on May 17, 2004 19:18:36 GMT -5
I have the same feeling - so much story left to tell. I have yet to find any fanfic that truly seems to me to possibly be "the story Joss would have told" if he had had the time. Or even seems to be trying to do that. Not that it can't be fun and not that some of it isn't marvelously in-character - but still, it's usually the story that the fanfic writer wanted to see told, without much real attempt to try to stay true with any set up there might be in the actual eps. I find very little comfort in fanfic, though maybe someone is out there who will really try to do "the Season 6 ME would likely have done," instead of "the Season 6 I just really wanted to see." I opened a thread on the main board about fanfic writers who are collaboratively writing virtual season 6's. One is non-canonical - The Brat Queen's writing one that'll be "probably definitely" slash. However, a group of fanfic writers who usually post at Sparklies - including Paratti and BuffyX are going to do a close to canonical season 6. You might want to surf over there and grab a look. |
|
|
|
Post by beccaelizabeth on May 19, 2004 16:37:54 GMT -5
“on a calf”
I missed that
I knew it was an odd thing to say but, Harmony
which is why she is a great way of slipping stuff like that in
|
|
|
|
Post by beccaelizabeth on May 19, 2004 16:50:02 GMT -5
Angel is smart but is he smart enough to hack into the magics to transmit coded warnings to Wesley and to pull the wool over the eyes of onlookers for 6 minutes? I doubt it. Angel has used magics before, like the living flame thing to burn that glove as threw lightning. And now he has all the books and the clever stuff in the vault. |
|
|
|
Post by SpringSummers on May 20, 2004 15:02:04 GMT -5
“on a calf” I missed that I knew it was an odd thing to say but, Harmony which is why she is a great way of slipping stuff like that in I almost missed that myself, becca. But when I watched them brand Angel, I suddenly remembered the reference. We had a reference to burning cows in Life of the Party - an ep where Harmony calls Angel "Bossy" - don't know if this is true in the UK, but that is a common cow name. Something going on there - not so sure it wasn't more about next Season foreshadowing than this one. Could have been just about Angel's willingness to sacrifice himself this Season, I guess. But it seemed to be so much more about Angel being set up to be a sacrifice. |
|
|
|
Post by efepeohcur on Jul 31, 2019 10:54:01 GMT -5
|
|
)
