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Post by William the Bloody on May 26, 2004 3:12:46 GMT -5
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Post by Sandy - lparish on May 26, 2004 8:42:26 GMT -5
Diane: Your review was...was...touching. Not just a review of the episode, a review of our emotions as well.
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Post by SpringSummers on May 26, 2004 9:46:40 GMT -5
Diane: Your review was...was...touching. Not just a review of the episode, a review of our emotions as well. Yes - thanks Diane, for sharing so much of yourself with us on this review. I couldn't cry either. And I was glad that you came to celebrate Angel, to sing the praises and the gratitude for what we got, instead of focusing on what we were denied. I liked especially your take on the preciousness of the moments between Angel & Connor. I personally believe that Angel really did sign away that Shanshu, and I think, for Angel, there is no tragedy in that. I liked the part where you pointed out how he could barely remember being human, etc. Also, I think that business with Spike winning the phony-cup earlier in the season, and Angel realizing that Spike wanted it more, speaks to this also. Angel has Connor to carry on in human form, and he - I don't think he wants to be human again. Not really. I don't think he ever did. He wanted it because he imagined Buffy wanted it; that's never a good reason to choose a path. Angel has to become what he was meant to be, and he has to follow his own heart and inclinations. Riley flirted with becoming a vampire for Buffy; Angel flirted with being human. Both, I think, come to realize what we all realize as we grow and mature: Ultimately, we have to do what we believe is right for ourselves, and for our own reasons. |
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Post by Lori on May 26, 2004 13:53:18 GMT -5
I second what Spring said. It was beautifully written and voiced what most of us were feeling.
I too liked that you brought up the importance of Connor. That scene in the coffee house, among others, will stay vividly in my mind. Connor processed what he learned after the mind wipe collapsed and he accepts Angel and sort of understands his mission.
"You drop by for coffee and the world isn't going to end?" was such a typical sort of smart ass teenage comment and observation but when he joined Angel in the battle against Hamilton, he showed that he respected Angel and was his father's son.
Your paragraph about Spike was especially poignant and so true to the character. It was so right that Angel send Spike for the baby. Despite their constant bickering, they have a deep connection and trust with each other. Angel knew that Spike could handle the Fell. He also knew Spike's heart. He would rescue the child and keep it safe.
Unlike you I cried and cannot think about the show or read a review or comments without tears filling my eyes. The show has burrowed into our souls and hearts.
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Post by Karen on May 26, 2004 15:35:53 GMT -5
I second what Spring said. It was beautifully written and voiced what most of us were feeling. I too liked that you brought up the importance of Connor. That scene in the coffee house, among others, will stay vividly in my mind. Connor processed what he learned after the mind wipe collapsed and he accepts Angel and sort of understands his mission. "You drop by for coffee and the world isn't going to end?" was such a typical sort of smart ass teenage comment and observation but when he joined Angel in the battle against Hamilton, he showed that he respected Angel and was his father's son. Your paragraph about Spike was especially poignant and so true to the character. It was so right that Angel send Spike for the baby. Despite their constant bickering, they have a deep connection and trust with each other. Angel knew that Spike could handle the Fell. He also knew Spike's heart. He would rescue the child and keep it safe. Unlike you I cried and cannot think about the show or read a review or comments without tears filling my eyes. The show has burrowed into our souls and hearts. Thank you for such a heartfelt review, Diane. The world seems a sadder place for the passing of this fantastic show. It's hard to let it go. I agree with your: I come to celebrate Angel. For one last, brief, shining moment our heroes transcended themselves. Flawed they were, as flawed they have always been, but each in his or her own way finally gave me that moment I have been waiting for—even when I didn’t know what that moment was.
Thank you for expressing so beautifully what I feel about Angel, too. I also loved that we were shown what each of the FG would do if it was their last day on earth. Spike on stage - glowing one last time - had me in tears. Gunn connecting with his roots had me cheering for him. Lorne singing made me realize how much I missed the old Lorne. And even though Wesley had nowhere to go, it was fitting that he chose to spend it taking care of the god who took his love away. I agree with Lori, that seeing Connor and Angel reconcile was very important and the highlight of the episode. And Angel to Connor "as long as you're ok, I'll be ok" (not exact quote) is the way I feel about my kids. Like Spring, I believe that Angel signed away the Shanshu. Whether or not the Black Thorn's document is actually "valid", we'll never know. The important thing is that Angel believed that it was, and I don't think that he signed it easily. I believe that the Shanshu still meant a great deal to Angel, and that is why he signed his signature so badly. It's not easy to keep your penmanship at its best when you're signing under duress. I think that his conversation with Harmony showed how much he longed to remember what it was like to be human. It wasn't easy to give up that dream, but he did it because he felt it was the right thing to do. The ending was like the Alamo, like you said, and I think it was also a noble and fitting ending. It's what many of us do every day - try to slay our dragons, make a difference in the world, and never surrender. |
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Post by Cal on May 26, 2004 17:49:18 GMT -5
Thank you for such a heartfelt review, Diane. The world seems a sadder place for the passing of this fantastic show. It's hard to let it go. I agree with your: I come to celebrate Angel. For one last, brief, shining moment our heroes transcended themselves. Flawed they were, as flawed they have always been, but each in his or her own way finally gave me that moment I have been waiting for—even when I didn’t know what that moment was.
Thank you for expressing so beautifully what I feel about Angel, too. I also loved that we were shown what each of the FG would do if it was their last day on earth. Spike on stage - glowing one last time - had me in tears. Gunn connecting with his roots had me cheering for him. Lorne singing made me realize how much I missed the old Lorne. And even though Wesley had no where to go, it was fitting that he chose to spend it taking care of the god who took his love away. I agree with Lori, that seeing Connor and Angel reconcile was very important and the highlight of the episode. And Angel to Connor "as long as you're ok, I'll be ok" (not exact quote) is the way I feel about my kids. Like Spring, I believe that Angel signed away the Shanshu. Whether or not the Black Thorn's document is actually "valid", we'll never know. The important thing is that Angel believed that it was, and I don't think that he signed it easily. I believe that the Shanshu still meant a great deal to Angel, and that is why he signed his signature so badly. It's not easy to keep your penmanship at its best when you're signing under duress. I think that his conversation with Harmony showed how much he longed to remember what it was like to be human. It wasn't easy to give up that dream, but he did it because he felt it was the right thing to do. The ending was like the Alamo, like you said, and I think it was also a noble and fitting ending. It's what many of us do every day - try to slay our dragons, make a difference in the world, and never surrender. Wonderful, moving review, Diane. Karen said it all. |
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Post by Laura on May 26, 2004 21:46:46 GMT -5
Thank you for such a heartfelt review, Diane. The world seems a sadder place for the passing of this fantastic show. It's hard to let it go. I agree with your: I come to celebrate Angel. For one last, brief, shining moment our heroes transcended themselves. Flawed they were, as flawed they have always been, but each in his or her own way finally gave me that moment I have been waiting for—even when I didn’t know what that moment was.
Thank you for expressing so beautifully what I feel about Angel, too. I also loved that we were shown what each of the FG would do if it was their last day on earth. Spike on stage - glowing one last time - had me in tears. Gunn connecting with his roots had me cheering for him. Lorne singing made me realize how much I missed the old Lorne. And even though Wesley had no where to go, it was fitting that he chose to spend it taking care of the god who took his love away. I agree with Lori, that seeing Connor and Angel reconcile was very important and the highlight of the episode. And Angel to Connor "as long as you're ok, I'll be ok" (not exact quote) is the way I feel about my kids. Like Spring, I believe that Angel signed away the Shanshu. Whether or not the Black Thorn's document is actually "valid", we'll never know. The important thing is that Angel believed that it was, and I don't think that he signed it easily. I believe that the Shanshu still meant a great deal to Angel, and that is why he signed his signature so badly. It's not easy to keep your penmanship at its best when you're signing under duress. I think that his conversation with Harmony showed how much he longed to remember what it was like to be human. It wasn't easy to give up that dream, but he did it because he felt it was the right thing to do. The ending was like the Alamo, like you said, and I think it was also a noble and fitting ending. It's what many of us do every day - try to slay our dragons, make a difference in the world, and never surrender.
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Post by LadyDi on May 28, 2004 11:51:57 GMT -5
Loved your review, tho' I must say I agree w/the others who think Angel has signed away his shanshu. He hasn't been Liam for a very long time.
Angel's fatalism in this ep implies he's given up hope of any future. It is Spike, as always, who thinks of possibilities.
Thing is, to shanshu, the vampire with a soul must die as a vampire. Now (at last) it makes sense to me why they brought Spike back the way they did. Chosen was just the qualifying round! Presumably, if Spike got dusty in the big fight, he'd come back yet again (hinted at in Damaged).
As for the complete absence of Buffy, I am of two minds on the issue. Yes, it's good Angel (the character & series) got to stand alone. OTOH, I very much hoped Spike and Buffy would have an opportunity - however brief - to renew their connection. I will go to my grave believing TGiQ to be the set-up for a punchline ME just didn't have time for.
On reading the spoilers for this ep, I had the crazy and oh-so-Spuffy idea that Spike could give the baby to Buffy, rather than return him to the parent(s) who gave him up in the first place. She would be a better guardian for the boy, and we'd have another vamp/love interest/baby set-up to explore.
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Post by Lola m on May 30, 2004 17:03:01 GMT -5
Diane - what can I say that hasn't already been said by others? Very wonderful summary of all our feelings about the show - how great it was to see the gang circling back to their roots during that "last day" - the moments with Angel and Connor.
Loved how you mentioned the mirroring in that final fight with Hamilton back to Buffy's fights with Caleb and Glory. "It's always got to be blood" indeed.
Thanks, Diane. A fitting last guest review for a great last ep.
Lola
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Post by Patti - S'cubie Cutie on May 30, 2004 22:57:06 GMT -5
Diane, that was an excellent job, and I meant to tell you so much earlier. You took us out properly. Thank you! *hug*
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Post by S'ewing S'cubie on May 31, 2004 8:54:59 GMT -5
Wow. I sweated blood over that review. Thank you all so much for your kind comments.
I honor and respect the disagreement on various points and will only comment on the discussion of Angel's signature. I still question whether signing the Shanshu away was in any real sense binding in that:
1. Angel didn't sign his real name. His name's Liam. He still relates to it.
2. I'm not sure the word on the document is really "Angel" because none of us can read it. I'd have been more inclined to an initial than to that almost Arabic-looking scrawl.
3. Documents signed under duress aren't ususally binding.
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Post by Sara on May 31, 2004 9:57:10 GMT -5
Just wanted to add my voice to the chorus of those who loved and were moved by your review: incredibly well done, Diane. You said everything I'd been thinking, and some things I hadn't realized I'd felt. I particularly loved your summations of the ways in which the FG spent their afternoons.
Again, amazing job.
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Post by makd on May 31, 2004 18:46:10 GMT -5
Diane
Just got in from Slayage, and so I wasn't able to read your review earlier.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts and feelings - which so many of us share - in this review.
Hard for me to comment, since I'm still sad about the ending, and looking for fanfic that'll help me to cope.
I still can't believe we face an autumn without any new Weed's Works.
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Post by RAKSHA on Jun 6, 2004 4:45:05 GMT -5
Loved your review, tho' I must say I agree w/the others who think Angel has signed away his shanshu. He hasn't been Liam for a very long time. Angel's fatalism in this ep implies he's given up hope of any future. It is Spike, as always, who thinks of possibilities. Thing is, to shanshu, the vampire with a soul must die as a vampire. Now (at last) it makes sense to me why they brought Spike back the way they did. Chosen was just the qualifying round! Presumably, if Spike got dusty in the big fight, he'd come back yet again (hinted at in Damaged). As for the complete absence of Buffy, I am of two minds on the issue. Yes, it's good Angel (the character & series) got to stand alone. OTOH, I very much hoped Spike and Buffy would have an opportunity - however brief - to renew their connection. I will go to my grave believing TGiQ to be the set-up for a punchline ME just didn't have time for. On reading the spoilers for this ep, I had the crazy and oh-so-Spuffy idea that Spike could give the baby to Buffy, rather than return him to the parent(s) who gave him up in the first place. She would be a better guardian for the boy, and we'd have another vamp/love interest/baby set-up to explore.
LadyDi, cute idea for Spike giving the rescued baby to Buffy; but I have the feeling that Buffy is nowhere ready for a child yet. She's still baking.
But you're right in that the baby should not have been returned to its natural parents; they aren't equipped to care for it if they'd give it up to demons because of their medical/financial woes. [glow=purple,2,300]GAIL[/glow] [/b] |
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Post by RAKSHA on Jun 6, 2004 4:48:01 GMT -5
Just wanted to add my voice to the chorus of those who loved and were moved by your review: incredibly well done, Diane. You said everything I'd been thinking, and some things I hadn't realized I'd felt. I particularly loved your summations of the ways in which the FG spent their afternoons. Again, amazing job.
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