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Post by Lola m on Nov 19, 2007 22:58:27 GMT -5
This could hurt Noah quite a bit. Now, Noah, crack his face open. GOOD daddy. And Mo-Mo reveals his nefariousness. Nefariating out all over the place. And Noah knows it. He's a nefariator, that's for sure! The ultimate threat. I'll take away your nickname, young man! ;D That's what I'm thinking. They paired them up to each keep an eye on each other and be a control on the other one, I'm thinking. They really pulled out all the stops on making West the good/heroic boyfriend in this ep, didn't they? HRG as McGyver.
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Post by Lola m on Nov 19, 2007 23:02:36 GMT -5
HRG wants to protect Claire by hiding her from everything. Bob apparently wants to protect Elle by teaching her to be a better shot and upping the SPF she wears. And in their own way, each is so very very wrong.
Excellent point, Lola. Noah's determination to protect his "little girl" has become a sort of mantra. Surely it would be better to teach Claire to be able to survive; they can't keep running forever. **nods** I keep thinking that somehow it didn't have to go to this rather ickysome extreme, if each of the sides would just be willing and able to cooperate more. I suppose in their minds, they could completely drain her and she'd still just bounce back, so why not take a lot. Because that would require Mohinder to actually use that ginormous brain to be sensible. I mean, I worship at the beauty that is Mohinder, but damn! Can I just slap some sense into him? [/color][/quote] Yes. If HRG were telling the truth about that, and I suspect that he is, it is truly sleazy.
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Post by Sara on Nov 19, 2007 23:07:10 GMT -5
HRG says that Elle was a "normal" girl until they tested her, that her dad was "leading the charge" (evil punning there, sir, while you sow doubt in her mind) and that her memory of this was wiped. Well, it sounds rather creepily plausible. And she is thinking so too, or she wouldn't say "what if he won't make a deal?". "Touch my daughter and I kill yours." Well. That kinda says it all doesn't it? And Bob is having his own convo with Claire while getting her blood. "We thought he'd be loyal to the end. And we were right." Lots of contrast compare. Bob and Elle. Claire and HRG. Claire and Elle. Bob and HRG. Bob and HRG and Matt's dad and momma P and papa Nakamura. The funeral where Hiro realizes that he needs to listen to his dad and let time unfold as it should. "Strength. Responsibility. And Justice." The moment when Hiro and papa Nakamura say goodbye because they know he'll die. And then Hiro stopping time because he needs to let things unfold as they "should", but that doesn't mean he can't learn who killed his dad - Justice! (And of course, it's Kensei!Adam!) Momma P facing off with Matt. This is gonna be totally kick-ass! ~~Are you going to read my mind?~~ "I knew your father when he could do it, I'm even less impressed with you." "Did you know him . . . when pull became push?" Oh, Matt. He pulls the truth about Adam out of her. "The truth is that our generation mortgaged their souls to protect yours. Show a little respect for that. Get over your daddy issues (ouch!) and let us be!" Damn! Classic generational stuff here, even without the superhuman powers thing. Yes, you sacrificed for them. And also, yes they never asked you to do that. And each generation needs to do what it needs to do. Just like the earlier fight with Claire and HRG. Both are right and both are wrong. But mostly? Forcing yourself into someone's mind until they bleed? Wrong!!! Bad Matt! Damn, guys! I know you're all bonding over cars and stuff, but you don't spill your plans in front of the enemy!! Dumb, dumb, dumb! Two daughters pass each other, on their different paths. Metaphor much? And of course it all goes horribly horribly wrong. Zap, goes Elle! Crash, go Claire and West! Insane-o "if you die, Bob, the company dies", goes HRG! And bang bang, got your eye, goes Mohinder. Oh, Mohinder. What the Elle hell are you doing?!? "The last thing I said to my dad is I hate you." Never get a chance to take it back. Now a montage about dads. (Definitely the ep theme, even without momma P spelling it out completely.) But not really about dads. About what's changable and what's not. Which is the longer underlying theme. And everybody has stuff to think about. Mohinder and Elle and Matt. And they're raising the dead with Claire's blood. HRG is back in the Company's clutches. Eeeep!! Quite the cautionary tale. So, here's my working theory: Noah's not being held by the Company, but has been stashed away somewhere by Mohinder—and that Mohinder shot Noah already knowing Claire's blood would save him in order to get him off the Company's radar.
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Post by Lola m on Nov 19, 2007 23:08:42 GMT -5
so claire's blood can bring people back to life?? (it looked in the end like noah was abruptly drawing in a breath, as if surprised to suddenly be alive again.) i feel very sorry for molly at the end of this episode - mohinder and matt should forfeit custody and she should go live with hiro and ando. Seriously!! With Matt and Mohinder each turning to the dark side . . . Well, Ando and Hiro would make much better two daddies. I think the seeds of doubt are very much planted in Elle. I don't think they needed much planting, actually.
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Post by Lola m on Nov 19, 2007 23:11:39 GMT -5
West flies HRG to the moon and let's him play among the stars . . . OK, no, he just wants to know if Claire is for real and so on. And HRG did take him, so really West is an OK guy and I've been suspicious of him for no good reason. Mea culpa! ;D HRG knows you're not telling the truth, Mo-mo. So he's makin' plans. Mr Bob Bishop. Come to talk to you about the seriousness of underage drinking. Tsk tsk, Miss [/i]Bennett[/i]. Oopsie! Interesting how the first thought that HRG has is "do they have Molly". He's seeing everything thru his lens of watching out for Claire. Mohinder thinks that Mr. BB will just "give" them Claire? What has he been smoking? And we're back to the heart of the dilemna this season. Is the Company doing good or bad? All good or all bad? Sort of good and sort of bad? Are all the people opposing it going good? Or bad? Or sort of both? Wooo! Fly boy gets Elle in the first swoop. Noooooooo! Don't shoot my pretty pretty Mohinder!! I know he often doesn't have the common sense of a piece of lint, but he's so pretttty!! Collateral. He's gonna try to trade Elle for Claire. And puts her in a water foot bath to keep all her electricity to herself. "Stings like a bitch, doesn't it?" Which is a nice snotty play on words. But also makes me think he's been zapped by her before. [/quote] LOLOLOLOL! What a great line![/quote]
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Post by Lola m on Nov 19, 2007 23:15:16 GMT -5
HRG says that Elle was a "normal" girl until they tested her, that her dad was "leading the charge" (evil punning there, sir, while you sow doubt in her mind) and that her memory of this was wiped. Well, it sounds rather creepily plausible. And she is thinking so too, or she wouldn't say "what if he won't make a deal?". "Touch my daughter and I kill yours." Well. That kinda says it all doesn't it? And Bob is having his own convo with Claire while getting her blood. "We thought he'd be loyal to the end. And we were right." Lots of contrast compare. Bob and Elle. Claire and HRG. Claire and Elle. Bob and HRG. Bob and HRG and Matt's dad and momma P and papa Nakamura. The funeral where Hiro realizes that he needs to listen to his dad and let time unfold as it should. "Strength. Responsibility. And Justice." The moment when Hiro and papa Nakamura say goodbye because they know he'll die. And then Hiro stopping time because he needs to let things unfold as they "should", but that doesn't mean he can't learn who killed his dad - Justice! (And of course, it's Kensei!Adam!) Momma P facing off with Matt. This is gonna be totally kick-ass! ~~Are you going to read my mind?~~ "I knew your father when he could do it, I'm even less impressed with you." "Did you know him . . . when pull became push?" Oh, Matt. He pulls the truth about Adam out of her. "The truth is that our generation mortgaged their souls to protect yours. Show a little respect for that. Get over your daddy issues (ouch!) and let us be!" Damn! Classic generational stuff here, even without the superhuman powers thing. Yes, you sacrificed for them. And also, yes they never asked you to do that. And each generation needs to do what it needs to do. Just like the earlier fight with Claire and HRG. Both are right and both are wrong. But mostly? Forcing yourself into someone's mind until they bleed? Wrong!!! Bad Matt! Damn, guys! I know you're all bonding over cars and stuff, but you don't spill your plans in front of the enemy!! Dumb, dumb, dumb! Two daughters pass each other, on their different paths. Metaphor much? And of course it all goes horribly horribly wrong. Zap, goes Elle! Crash, go Claire and West! Insane-o "if you die, Bob, the company dies", goes HRG! And bang bang, got your eye, goes Mohinder. Oh, Mohinder. What the Elle hell are you doing?!? "The last thing I said to my dad is I hate you." Never get a chance to take it back. Now a montage about dads. (Definitely the ep theme, even without momma P spelling it out completely.) But not really about dads. About what's changable and what's not. Which is the longer underlying theme. And everybody has stuff to think about. Mohinder and Elle and Matt. And they're raising the dead with Claire's blood. HRG is back in the Company's clutches. Eeeep!! Quite the cautionary tale. So, here's my working theory: Noah's not being held by the Company, but has been stashed away somewhere by Mohinder—and that Mohinder shot Noah already knowing Claire's blood would save him in order to get him off the Company's radar. Oh I soooooooooo hope you are right and that my sweet baboo Mohinder is slightly less of a jackass than he looks right now.
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Post by Sara on Nov 19, 2007 23:22:09 GMT -5
[/color][/quote] Yes. If HRG were telling the truth about that, and I suspect that he is, it is truly sleazy. [/quote] I don't think they cast a petite blond in the role of Elle by accident; as I understand it they wanted her character to embody what could have happened to Claire right from the start, beginning with a physical resemblance between the two women. In fact, I doubt it's coincidental that they cast a guy who wears glasses and shares many physical attributes (roughly the same age, height, and hair color) with Noah to play Elle's father. So I suspect what Noah told her is indeed the truth. Besides, what would he gain by lying to her about it? He only wanted to use her as leverage, and getting her pissed off at him wasn't exactly going to make her want to cooperate with that plan. It's possible he was trying to undermine Elle's relationship with Bob, but it also seemed like Noah had every intention of killing Bob going into the meeting—so why try to destroy their trust in each other if Bob's too dead for any conflict between him and his daughter to pay future dividends?
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Post by RAKSHA on Nov 19, 2007 23:50:31 GMT -5
so claire's blood can bring people back to life?? (it looked in the end like noah was abruptly drawing in a breath, as if surprised to suddenly be alive again.) i feel very sorry for molly at the end of this episode - mohinder and matt should forfeit custody and she should go live with hiro and ando. Seriously!! With Matt and Mohinder each turning to the dark side . . . Well, Ando and Hiro would make much better two daddies. I think the seeds of doubt are very much planted in Elle. I don't think they needed much planting, actually. Ando and Hiro don't really have as much life experience as at least Matt does in order to make good daddies for Molly. Besides, Hiro is a HERO, a temporal adventurer, not a working stiff; and couldn't really, in my opinion, give Molly a stable home - especially now, when I suspect he is going to go Rambo on Adam for killing Kaito.
Maybe Molly could be sent to New Orleans with Granny Uhura - Micah would be happy to see her, I'm sure. Probably won't happen, though .
GAIL
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Post by Rachael on Nov 20, 2007 2:08:15 GMT -5
And again I say: Mohinder is too stupid to live. 'Course, I knew they'd use Claire's blood to bring Noah back. And fulk NBC anyway. "Last two episodes."
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Post by Rachael on Nov 20, 2007 2:12:37 GMT -5
And you know, I really hope Adam's issues are over the 400 years or whatever it was of captivity, and not just about revenge on Hiro. 'Cause really - a few centuries is plenty of time to get over someone else macking on your girl....
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Post by artemis on Nov 20, 2007 9:05:55 GMT -5
And you know, I really hope Adam's issues are over the 400 years or whatever it was of captivity, i thought he said they'd only been holding him captive for 30 years? ("only" being relative, obviously!) ;D it's an interesting question as to whether adam was aware that hiro was kaito's son. it seems like if it really was just about hiro, he'd have gone for ando instead or in addition.
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Post by artemis on Nov 20, 2007 9:21:40 GMT -5
I don't think they cast a petite blond in the role of Elle by accident; as I understand it they wanted her character to embody what could have happened to Claire right from the start, beginning with a physical resemblance between the two women. In fact, I doubt it's coincidental that they cast a guy who wears glasses and shares many physical attributes (roughly the same age, height, and hair color) with Noah to play Elle's father. i agree, and i think it would have been more apparent to me if i hadn't been distracted by KB's acting up until this episode. again, i agree. i also think that with how he felt about claire, he probably sort of ... felt he owed it to her to tell her the truth, presuming (seemingly correctly) that she wouldn't have found out another way. this episode seemed to me to be pretty good at illustrating noah's conflicting feelings of guilt, responsibility, defensiveness, etc over the things he had done while with the Company.
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Post by artemis on Nov 20, 2007 9:41:06 GMT -5
Ando and Hiro don't really have as much life experience as at least Matt does in order to make good daddies for Molly. until matt and mohinder turned to the dark side. i picked hiro and ando in particular simply because they are a contrast in choices with what matt and mohinder have done in the past episode or two. yes, it will be interesting to see if hiro reacts like HRG did to threats on claire. so far, hiro only has the overheard conversation between angela petrelli and kaito to clue him in to the fact that it's not an isolated murder, right? i don't think ando knows about the other murders, and i don't recall any other character telling hiro. that's a great idea, actually.
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Post by Sharky on Nov 20, 2007 9:49:04 GMT -5
So, here's my working theory: Noah's not being held by the Company, but has been stashed away somewhere by Mohinder—and that Mohinder shot Noah already knowing Claire's blood would save him in order to get him off the Company's radar. I tend to agree, although I've been excessively Pollyannaesque before...
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Post by Pixi on Nov 20, 2007 9:53:48 GMT -5
So, here's my working theory: Noah's not being held by the Company, but has been stashed away somewhere by Mohinder—and that Mohinder shot Noah already knowing Claire's blood would save him in order to get him off the Company's radar. I tend to agree, although I've been excessively Pollyannaesque before... This was my first thought also. Excellent episode. Finally. I spent most of the last half hour going awesome over and over.
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