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Post by Rob on Jan 26, 2004 17:29:16 GMT -5
I'll play over here for a sec...there is a rather idiosyncratic novel called 'Daddy,' by Loup Durand. I've never seen anything else by this author that I liked very much...but this one is one of my favorite books in any genre.
It's set in World War II (I'm a sucker for a historical thriller)...and might have the strangest cast of characters for that sort of story I've ever encountered. The story itself is quite unbelievable at certain points...but I couldn't stop reading it.
If you can find the book, I urge you to give it a try.
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Post by Linda on Jan 27, 2004 0:09:00 GMT -5
Okay, this makes at least the third time I have recommended this author/this series. But, I'm on the 11th book in the series and it just keeps getting better. She's officially on my top 10 list of all time. Unbelievably well-written, entertaining, and highly readable. (I've put off reading Harry Potter to finish the last three books. I've bought the 12th book in hardback because it's not out yet in paperback. I've exerted myself to attempt to post in colored, large script.) Somebody, please go buy "The Warrior's Apprentice" and "The Vor Game" by Lois McMasters Bujold. Remember, they get even better as you follow the series. I'd send you my copy, but I've already lent it to my sister (who immediately purchased the other books in the series) plus, it's only 5.99 or 6.99. It's on Amazon if you can't get it at a local bookstore.
You know how you feel trying to convince your friends to watch Buffy. That's me and the Miles Vorkosigan (the protagonist) books. Hi Sue, For some reason, I kinda get the feeling that you like the Vorkosigan series almost as much as I do I love connections and serendipity and I just wanted to let you know that my chosen username "prokryote" was chosen for the following reasons: 1) I first noticed the word PROKARYOTE while reading Memory -- my personal favorite of the series (although I am occasionally in the mood to re-read one of the others instead). The science men were explaining what was happening to Simon Ilyan's CHIP -- which was turning to snot in his head. For some reason, the simplistic "little bug that eats things" definition that Miles chose not to be insulted by just stuck in my head. 2) Spike's chip also began turning to snot in his head during season 7 ( The Killer in Me, I think) 3) When Giles comes back with the magic stone that he needs to shove into Spike's cranium in Lies My Parents Told Me, the closed captioning guys spelled it out as "prokaryote", although Giles pronounced it "PROKRYOTE" -- but then, you know those British folk with the missing vowels (fo'c'sl' anyone?) Anyway, when it comes to fictional characters, I love Miles Naismith Vorkosigan only a little less than Spike. For a lot of the same reasons. I mean, in Memory, Miles pretty much destroys his life, and yet he is able to go onto an even better one, with his whole self (and a lot of pain and a lot of help from his family). Linda, who is looking forward to LMB writing a story about how Miles' kids drive HIM crazy...
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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on Feb 7, 2004 23:34:13 GMT -5
Here, so it won't get lost:
I recently rediscovered Barbara Hambly's two rather fine vampire novels, Those Who Hunt the Night and Travelling With the Dead. Has anyone else read them? It's been a few years, but I remember her take on the vampire psyche as being an interesting and rather sympathetic one. I'll have to dust them off and reread them, soon, I think.
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Post by Rachael on Feb 16, 2004 23:34:03 GMT -5
Copied from the Main SSS thread, and started with a discussion of Lucifer's Hammer by Larry Niven and James Pournelle: Niven and Pournelle; I love the description of the surfer catching his last wave... Have you read A Canticle for Leibowitz? or The Earth Abides? Or my least favorite John Brunner, The Sheep Look Up? All apocalypses of various flavors. Julia, or is that Apocalypsi? Yeah, the surfer scene is great, and sad in a way I hadn't expected - I guess I didn't expect to connect that much to a surfer. Seriously, though - I've been most touched by the diabetic PhD who's wrapping his books in Zip-loc bags to save them from the disaster. Because I expected the food hoarders, and the folks who fled to the hills, and the looters and murderers, but the guy who thinks to save the books so that they can use them to rebuild civilization is my hero. I haven't read A Canticle for Leibowitz yet, although I've meant to for a long while. I personally love how you can tell what the current societal fears are by reading the latest end-of-the-world novels. In the early 80's, nuclear holocaust. In the late 80's/90's, comets and diseases. Lately, global warming, diseases, and sometimes the world doesn't end, but the genetic engineering is the big bad. Somehow the "evil geneticist" character just doesn't work for me, though. Actually, apocalyptic fiction reading is what got me started on Sheri S. Tepper - I tried to read King's Blood Four, etc., when I was a teenager (my mom loved them), couldn't get into it, and then picked up The Gate to Women's Country in graduate school. Subsequently devoured everything she ever wrote, including the True Game series. What is it that's so appealing about books that take place AFTER the end of the world? Is it just the car wreck mentality? Oh, yeah - if you like your apocalyptic fiction really dark (and I'm not kidding), try Octavia E. Butler. I love her stuff, but there are some scenes that have stuck in my mind in a way that won't let me reread the novel - Clay's Ark, in particular, has a couple of real nasties in it. Oh, and hey - Elizabeth Ann Scarborough's Last Refuge and Nothing Sacred are interesting takes on the end of the world. Especially if you're interested in Tibetan Buddhism at all. And even if not, good stories. And I'm gonna take this and post it on the Recommended Reading list right now, before I forget like I did last time I went on for a page about books.
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Post by Becky H on Feb 20, 2004 10:40:44 GMT -5
I've been reading Robin McKinley's fantasy for years but she's published (2003) what looks like the beginning of new vampire-themed series: Sunshine. It's definitely adult literature but without the softcore porn overtones of the Laurell Hamilton stuff. I pretended I wasn't neglecting my coursework to finish this book. It's sort of our world, set in a semi-post-apocolyptic future (after the Voodoo wars) in which magic is a given, vampires own a significant portion of the world's wealth, and all signs are pointing to a major war in 100 years or so. Sunshine, the heroine, is forced into an alliance with a vampire and much gothic horror goodness ensues. Plus, there are appreciative blurbs from both Neil Gaiman and Amber Benson so read this book!
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Post by beccaelizabeth on Feb 21, 2004 12:05:08 GMT -5
finished reading the gatekeeper trilogy last night I realised why the Buffy books never grab my attention- reset to zero. I mean character development just doesnt happen, everyone wanders off at the end, earth shattering events are all wiped out of existence and memory. It's... like Twinkies, dont leave you with that heavy food feeling. That plus what I consider shaky adherence to canon, especially on styles of magic. They just feel like fanfic I have to pay money for. Also some author's habit of referring to their own previous books as if they were as canonical as the TV series is just kinda irritating, because we all know they arent. In a fanfic series we know it goes into its own little world, but the books are supposed to fit in the cracks of Buffy's TVworld.
OTOH they managed a 2.5 dimensional Ethan Rayne, so bonus points. Giles beats him up for no readily apparent reason, even though there were reasons to be had with just a couple extra lines. And Ethan throws magic around like a D&D mage, rather than the enchanter we've seen him to be, but then so does Everyone else. Buffy makes a pop culture reference, I think to that guy who gets turned into a giant spider in the Lost in Space movie. That was who Ethan was being in this book. Which is way unsubtle and rather less fun that I could have had with him.
My least favourite use of Ethan is as random plot device. This time they gave him plausible connections to the plot. Also the end of the world does tend to be everybody's business.
They did miss what I'd consider an obvious and important line- the bad guys are the Sons of Entropy. They say they worship Chaos, but they really just want to tear it all down. Entropy is not Chaos. Entropy is simplest natural law. Entropy says things fall apart. Chaos says they fall together again, in new and interesting ways. Ethan should have had something to say about poseurs invoking Chaos without understanding it, and then thinking they can control it. Given Ethan's ability to roll with the punches I think he is well aware he doesnt rule the Chaos he creates, he is simply (re)created by it- a son of Chaos. My Ethan was having sarky words every time the Sons of Entropy said something 'in Chaos name!' But I think the authors honestly didnt understand the distinction, so naturally their versions of the characters didnt either.
Also there was a slightly bizarre paragraph where Ethan thinks about how he sacrifices goats to the dark powers in order to stay young looking, like 30ish looking. What??? The guy that plays him is 50ish, so are the authors trying to be funny, making a point about vanity, making a point about poor eyesight, or just on something??? Seeing as its crucial to my understanding of Ethan that he has let himself age naturally this kinda bugged me. What are they seeing?
Have I just been getting lucky with which books I read or does Ethan get used a lot in the novels?
And yes, I know its a whole trilogy and Ethan was only in the last one, but obviously thats the important parts...
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makd hurrying toward RL
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Post by makd hurrying toward RL on Feb 21, 2004 12:26:37 GMT -5
Here, so it won't get lost: I recently rediscovered Barbara Hambly's two rather fine vampire novels, Those Who Hunt the Night and Travelling With the Dead. Has anyone else read them? It's been a few years, but I remember her take on the vampire psyche as being an interesting and rather sympathetic one. I'll have to dust them off and reread them, soon, I think. I LOVE Barbara Hambly's books! She also has a series of detective novels set in the early 19th century - in New Orleans. The hero is a Free Man of Color - a doctor - and the mysteries are really good. She's one of my faves. So glad to hear that someone else likes her work.
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Post by beccaelizabeth on Feb 21, 2004 13:11:03 GMT -5
what to say about this book... well my Amazon review is titled 'Bleeding awful'. Pretty much sums it up. Actually thats my second review- my first one was never put up on the site. Guess they didnt like it.
The synopsis is misleading, as is the front cover with Faith and Ethan- they only turn up 1/3rd and 2/3rds of the way through the book. Ethan is mr plot device again, but so is everyone else. This 'book' is the novelization of the game, and it reads like it. They fight, fight, fight, break for really graphic and oozy descriptions, then fight some more. No characterization, barely any conversation, just hitting things. Its ghastly, deadly boring.
The only good thing about the entire book is the spark of an idea- that Ethan would make a bet with the First Evil. That is so very much Ethan's style. The trouble is then the exact bet he makes- it depends not at all on his own skill or art, and completely on the skill of the Slayer and some random companions. If he took a few people and transformed them into something then set them into the game, that would be in character- his art against the champions of the first. Just hiding behind the Slayer is technically something he has done before, but I dont feel its something he would put such a huge bet on.
The culmination of the game and book also got Jossed- if there was a dagger which you could kill the First with then season 7 would have played out very different. But the idea of Hope defeating Evil isnt all bad.
If the author had taken some elements of the game and used them as plot bunnies, something worth reading could have resulted. As it is apparently you can use this book as a cheat sheet for the game, its that faithful to the action. Bad, bad, bad.
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Post by Cal on Feb 21, 2004 13:14:40 GMT -5
what to say about this book... well my Amazon review is titled 'Bleeding awful'. Pretty much sums it up. Actually thats my second review- my first one was never put up on the site. Guess they didnt like it. The synopsis is misleading, as is the front cover with Faith and Ethan- they only turn up 1/3rd and 2/3rds of the way through the book. Ethan is mr plot device again, but so is everyone else. This 'book' is the novelization of the game, and it reads like it. They fight, fight, fight, break for really graphic and oozy descriptions, then fight some more. No characterization, barely any conversation, just hitting things. Its ghastly, deadly boring. The only good thing about the entire book is the spark of an idea- that Ethan would make a bet with the First Evil. That is so very much Ethan's style. The trouble is then the exact bet he makes- it depends not at all on his own skill or art, and completely on the skill of the Slayer and some random companions. If he took a few people and transformed them into something then set them into the game, that would be in character- his art against the champions of the first. Just hiding behind the Slayer is technically something he has done before, but I dont feel its something he would put such a huge bet on. The culmination of the game and book also got Jossed- if there was a dagger which you could kill the First with then season 7 would have played out very different. But the idea of Hope defeating Evil isnt all bad. If the author had taken some elements of the game and used them as plot bunnies, something worth reading could have resulted. As it is apparently you can use this book as a cheat sheet for the game, its that faithful to the action. Bad, bad, bad. ITA be, I really disliked this book. In fact, I couldn't even bring myself to finish it, it was that bad! Cal
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Dori
S'cubie
Jumping 'Ship...
Posts: 33
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Post by Dori on Feb 21, 2004 15:54:52 GMT -5
I realised why the Buffy books never grab my attention- reset to zero. I mean character development just doesnt happen, everyone wanders off at the end, earth shattering events are all wiped out of existence and memory. It's... like Twinkies, dont leave you with that heavy food feeling. That plus what I consider shaky adherence to canon, Well, the reset to zero is a function of the guidelines set down by Fox, who is the licensor. Same with shaky canon. Tie-in writers aren't allowed to follow canon exactly, for some reason I've never figured out. Guidelines for Angel novels right now specify that the books be set sometime in the 4th season, pre-Jasmine, but post-Cordy's return, and Wes is still officially on the outs with AI, but they're starting to have a rapprochement. Now, I ask you, if you're going to stick strictly to canon, where in the heck can you place a story like that? Oh, and in the guidelines, it also says that Lorne is still running Caritas. So a lot of the problems you're having with the Buffy and Angel books come from the restrictions Fox is placing on the writers. Toys have to go back neatly in the box when we're done playing with them. <G>
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Post by beccaelizabeth on Mar 1, 2004 6:13:14 GMT -5
Lost Slayer books, all bound as one book now, were... well if you mix the everybody-dies scenes in The Wish with a grindingly obvious chirpy little message, you could get that story. Buffy tries to split her life in two, all Slayer, and all Buffy, both at once, therefore trying to lead two lives with one body. Buffy gets her spirit sent to go live literally two lives in one body. Oh, isnt it clever! And of course because she didnt rely on her friends they all die horrible deaths. Except Willow, because she's cute. And an uber powerful witch throwing D&D style spells around with abandon and no noticeable consequences. But hey, by the end of the books it never happened, so whatever.
Oz is there the whole time, and all werewolfy, but I didnt recognise a thing he said as being Oz words. Everyone was all caricatures. Total lack of believing them. And also a total lack of understanding from the author about how much they could change in five years. I mean yes, big trauma, big tragedy, big changes- but not stopping there. Would have moved on, maybe made relationships that werent all about their high school friendships. *sigh* except that would involve new characters. But oh look, there are new characters. They just dont interact with canon characters in any significant way, so what is the point of them being there? And Wesley is very stuck in early Wes mode, hardly any growth. I wouldnt mind so much if the author hadnt put so much time in between- take it AU and have everyone emotionally scarred, yes, no problem, but give them so much time to get over it yet still be exactly the same??? Eesh.
Plus they seem to think that surprising the reader and surprising the enemy are equally good. Pulling a new magic or priestly ability out of the hat in the middle of a battle, rather than knowing the good guys can do that and just waiting to watch the bad guys react. Its my least favourite story teller trick, you pull out a rabbit at the last minute instead of having it all integral to the characters and plot. annoying muchly.
If this was fanfic I'd be annoyed. As it is I payed money for the privelege of being this bored.
Trouble is the things I like in fanfic, character development, relationships, the heart and meaning in a story, they just dont seem to be what these tie in novels are about. Killing lots of monsters messily yes, characters, not so much. I wasn't expecting slashy goodness, but I was expecting, oh, characters I care about, maybe even recognise.
I might be being extra down on this book because the timing of me reading it coincided with losing the show and Fred, so this everyone dies vibe sucked major league. But I just did not like this book.
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Post by beccaelizabeth on Mar 1, 2004 6:19:25 GMT -5
I quite liked this one. Still a lack of major character development, but I recognised everyone (possibly even Oz, though there were a couple of lines that struck me as well wrong). I dont like what they did with Hern the Hunter, because I think of him as a small god and spirit of Britain, so making him a bad guy annoys. But I did rather like the way the plot wove together, and the runaways and lost people theme worked in to add to it all (instead of the way too obvious Lost Slayer thing). I liked the mentions of the main characters families. Believeable.
I'm actually trying not to spoil the plot completely because I think its worth reading. Cool.
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Post by beccaelizabeth on Mar 25, 2004 12:14:38 GMT -5
If I ignore the fact this is supposed to be a Buffy book, it was quite good, albeit slightly incoherent right at the end. Seeing as it is supposed to be about Buffy, Giles, Angel, Willow, Xander, Cordelia, Oz, Faith, it would have been nice if more of it were about them and less about the original characters.
One golden rule of fanfic is if you can have a canon character do a job, let them do it. Do not invent a character to duplicate someone elses skills. Sometimes you can get away with it if you are using them to illuminate the emotions or journey of a canon character- rather like Wesley's original introduction to the Buffyverse. The duplication was the point. In this book however it just seems like they got carried away with their characters and forgot it was supposed to be mostly about the canon characters.
They also treat their previous Buffy novels as just as canonical as the series, or perhaps more so since we certainly got more references to previous novels than to episodes. This irritates me greatly.
Not as much as the Willow & Cordy woke up all okay and didnt remember a thing ending though. The it was all a dream gambit is unutterably cheap.
The incoherency was less in the story, more in the message. I mean somewhere at some point this novel was about sacrifice. I just cannot figure out what it is saying about sacrifice. Too many things. I mean theres donation of blood, bone marrow, and bits of soul by the good guys, and sacrifice of unwilling victims by the bad guys, and thats all pretty clear (although, BITS of soul? Since when is it divisible?). But the big climactic battle has dumb sacrifices, and smart sacrifices, and dream sacrifices, and sacrifices that didnt count later, and... I just cannot figure what it is trying to say. If anything.
Yes, I'm a bit harsh on these books. I mean it only took me three or four attempts to read the whole thing. Just because I usually read a book cover to cover doesnt mean its that awful that it didnt grab me, right? But I paid money for this and its all... wonky.
And why does it always have to be another apocalypse? Events on that scale CANNOT have happened in between episodes, so I have to take it as an AU. Okay, fair enough. But also kind of frustrating. The novels should be about giving us a peek into the characters minds, showing us more layers, showing the in between. Instead its all big huge battles and Angel smoochies (ick ick ick dreamy high school Buffy gets more annoying every time).
Anyway, I dont want to wash my brain out after reading this, but I doubt I'll ever want to read it again. I'm thinking my local library is going to get a whole lot of Buffy books in the near future.
I have maybe £40 worth of books left to read, and I'm just not looking forward to it, because so far? Fanfic way the hell better. Not always, but often.
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Post by beccaelizabeth on Mar 25, 2004 22:17:42 GMT -5
Comic that tries to reconcile movie, script and series canon about the early days of Buffy. Works pretty well. I hate the art, the covers falling off already, and there are occaisional mistakes in the lettering style that make it convey false information, but I'm still glad I bought it. It makes sense. And makes various references to burning the gym make sense. So, good enough.
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Post by beccaelizabeth on Mar 25, 2004 22:24:11 GMT -5
Finally, a Buffy book I very much like. Brings back Pike, fills in gaps in canon history, resolves a bunch of emotional stuff. Does character development despite the between episodes limitation. Has a lovely twisty multiplayer plot. Uses only canon characters plus some love interest and bad guys (thankyou! no dumb duplicate people). Brings all its threads together by the end. And focuses on Giles. It stomps the message home a bit in the last few pages, and a couple of times takes time out in the middle of a fight to point out someone is being brave rather than relying on the readers to notice that by virtue of seeing them fighting, but these are minor, minor flaws. I *like* this book. I'm actually glad I paid money for this book. It is better than a lot of fanfic. And it mentions Ethan Rayne. So aside from the whole lack of gay sex it has all the stuff I'm looking for in a story. Happy.
Makes more sense if you read The Origin comic first, because I'm pretty sure it takes that as canon on Pike, rather than the movie.
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