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Post by William the Bloody on Sept 15, 2004 15:00:03 GMT -5
Let hte discussion begin!
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Post by Patti - S'cubie Cutie on Sept 15, 2004 15:40:35 GMT -5
Spring, I really got a lot from your analysis of Checkpoint. I have always loved this episode, - it just works for so many reasons - the small but delicious spike moments, the cutting from interview to interview and each person's attempts to help, and that awesome scene in the shop when Buffy lets the Council know who is REALLY in charge - with her gang watching from above.
But it just amazes me how deeply you see into these episodes and pick out things that I never would have seen - but when you write about them, I go...ohhhhh....of course...
I'm so glad you are giving us these gifts. Thank you!
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Post by Nickim on Sept 15, 2004 16:30:30 GMT -5
Spring,
You've hit the mark again. I love the look on the female watcher's face when Spike smiles at her. It's so obvious she wishes her "protectors" would just go away. I don't think we ever got to see Spike move the same on Angel. He just didn't seem as graceful.
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Post by LadyDi on Sept 15, 2004 19:44:58 GMT -5
Ah, Spring - you are such a naughty girl sometimes. My only criticism of this analysis: too short.
Again the mutuality of feeling btwn Buffy and Spike comes thru loud and clear. It's very similar to the scene in Smashed which is, BTW, totally hot even with the commentary playing over it. It is this mutuality that convinces me Buffy and Spike are, if not the perfect match, then pretty d*mn close. I read somewhere that shared values and experiences make for more successful relationships. Now they have sacrifice and (reluctant) resurrection to add to the list.
I've always loved the scene btwn Spike and Lydia. Wasn't really too upset when the council went kablooie, except for her. The scene btwn Spike and Joyce bonding over Passions is one of their best moments (2nd only, I think, to the cocoa scene from Lovers Walk). Joyce never bonded with Angel, didn't like him, and Buffy mostly kept their involvement from her. So very different. Nor do we have as great an emphasis on the age difference btwn Buffy and Spike as we did w/Buffy and Angel.
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Post by SpringSummers on Sept 15, 2004 21:15:54 GMT -5
Spring, I really got a lot from your analysis of Checkpoint. I have always loved this episode, - it just works for so many reasons - the small but delicious spike moments, the cutting from interview to interview and each person's attempts to help, and that awesome scene in the shop when Buffy lets the Council know who is REALLY in charge - with her gang watching from above. But it just amazes me how deeply you see into these episodes and pick out things that I never would have seen - but when you write about them, I go...ohhhhh....of course... I'm so glad you are giving us these gifts. Thank you! I appreciate the image of my analyses as gifts, because it really feels that way to me, and I get a strong "joy of giving and sharing" feel from it. Thanks for your nice feedback. I love this episode too. Buffy just makes us proud.
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Post by SpringSummers on Sept 15, 2004 21:19:03 GMT -5
Spring, You've hit the mark again. I love the look on the female watcher's face when Spike smiles at her. It's so obvious she wishes her "protectors" would just go away. I don't think we ever got to see Spike move the same on Angel. He just didn't seem as graceful. Yes, I love the way that actress portraying the female watcher handles her role. The nervous, star-struck way she behaves - she, like Spike and Scoobies, just gives herself away. I do agree that Spike was not "the same" on Angel. The show was much darker and much more male, and that just wasn't optimal for showing off the best of a character like Spike. He needs those brighter surroundings, and he's all about women bringing out the most (the best, the worst) in him.
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Post by SpringSummers on Sept 15, 2004 21:26:19 GMT -5
Ah, Spring - you are such a naughty girl sometimes. My only criticism of this analysis: too short. Naughty? This is maybe a reference to my reference to the tight jeans? Dahling - I must please my public!! On the too short - I agree. It's a significant ep and I coulda written more. I confess I had such a hard time getting this one done that as soon as it seemed "good enough" I sent if off. I love Spike and Joyce together. They didn't have many scenes together, but each one - from School Hard to Crush - was gold.
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Post by Laura on Sept 15, 2004 22:53:14 GMT -5
Spring, you've done it again. I feel kind of stupid always saying "you're brilliant!", because I feel like I should be coming up with something else to say -- but "you're brilliant!" pretty well covers it.
Things I really appreciate about this analysis -- the concept of the "checkpoint" -- I've always interpreted the title of the ep as simply relating to the re-introduction of the "military" with the Knights of Byzantium (now that Riley's gone, it was (to me) the obvious interpretation). I'm fascinated with how you've extrapolated the "checkpoint" of "where is each character right now in terms of development," in addition to the whole overlay of officialdom.
Fab job. I'm sorry you've had to struggle so long to get this one out.
(And would you really really hate me if I asked when you'll gift us with the next one?)[/size]
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Post by SpringSummers on Sept 16, 2004 6:56:32 GMT -5
Spring, you've done it again. I feel kind of stupid always saying "you're brilliant!", because I feel like I should be coming up with something else to say -- but "you're brilliant!" pretty well covers it.
Things I really appreciate about this analysis -- the concept of the "checkpoint" -- I've always interpreted the title of the ep as simply relating to the re-introduction of the "military" with the Knights of Byzantium (now that Riley's gone, it was (to me) the obvious interpretation). I'm fascinated with how you've extrapolated the "checkpoint" of "where is each character right now in terms of development," in addition to the whole overlay of officialdom.
Fab job. I'm sorry you've had to struggle so long to get this one out.
(And would you really really hate me if I asked when you'll gift us with the next one?) [/size][/quote] Thanks for the nice feedback, Laura. Always good to hear from you. A person can't get too many pats on the back, especially when there is so much more to do. And no, I don't hate you for asking when the next one will be, I love you for providing the segue for me to let you know that I just finished Blood Ties! I hope to work on Crush this weekend, and at least get a good start on it.
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Post by LadyDi on Sept 16, 2004 11:03:12 GMT -5
Naughty? This is maybe a reference to my reference to the tight jeans? Dahling - I must please my public!! Actually, I was thinking of the strip search and frisking.;D
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Post by Karen on Sept 16, 2004 13:08:42 GMT -5
Spring - I thoroughly enjoyed reading your Checkpoint analysis. I liked how you explained that 'killing the messenger' was about fear and frustration over the lack of power. And the Spike extras were so funny! I totally get the "dry mouth" syndrome. Thanks so much! Karen
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Post by Onjel on Sept 16, 2004 16:38:54 GMT -5
Spring:
Another spot on analysis. I love this episode because of the way each character interacts with the Council upon first arrival and how they subtly change in demeanor and bearing by the end of the episode. Each of Buffy's friends was bolstered by her strength and, brass ovaries, and seemed to sit just a little straighter and a little taller. Part of that would be pride, but it seemed they got strength from her telling the Council the facts of life.
I never thought about the significance of killing the messenger, but now that you mention it, of course! An aha moment. I get it now!
Thanks again, and I am looking forward to the next analysis. ;D
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Post by SpringSummers on Sept 17, 2004 7:16:25 GMT -5
Actually, I was thinking of the strip search and frisking.;D Well, yes - I can be a bit naughty. But it is Karen's fault. You should see how many times she has IM'd me saying that an analysis needed "more sex." If it was all up to me, they would all be much more scholarly.
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Post by SpringSummers on Sept 17, 2004 7:23:51 GMT -5
Spring - I thoroughly enjoyed reading your Checkpoint analysis. I liked how you explained that 'killing the messenger' was about fear and frustration over the lack of power. And the Spike extras were so funny! I totally get the "dry mouth" syndrome. Thanks so much! Karen I am glad you approved. (What did I tell you, Lady Di?)Seriously, thanks for the feedback. I did see Glory's "murder" of the mailman as symptomatic and symbolic of of her massive feeling of powerlessness and alienation. I liked Glory as a Big Bad - we went from Adam, who felt supremely confident and entirely self-contained (he doesn't even eat), to the other extreme with Glory, who feels extremely insecure and can't survive a day without feeding off others. And we're finding out that neither extreme works.
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Post by SpringSummers on Sept 17, 2004 7:28:06 GMT -5
Spring: Another spot on analysis. I love this episode because of the way each character interacts with the Council upon first arrival and how they subtly change in demeanor and bearing by the end of the episode. Each of Buffy's friends was bolstered by her strength and, brass ovaries, and seemed to sit just a little straighter and a little taller. Part of that would be pride, but it seemed they got strength from her telling the Council the facts of life. I never thought about the significance of killing the messenger, but now that you mention it, of course! An aha moment. I get it now! Thanks again, and I am looking forward to the next analysis. ;D Thanks, Onjel. Yes - Buffy is the leader and her attitude trickles down. I do think all the S'cubies were energized by her show of power. Also, thanks for the encouragement. My next analysis is done and to-be-posted soon; and I am hoping to get the one after that done this weekend. It is looking like it will be a very bleak and relentlessly rainy weekend, which helps with a stay-indoors activity.
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