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Post by LadyDi on Sept 17, 2004 19:25:50 GMT -5
Well, yes - I can be a bit naughty. But it is Karen's fault. You should see how many times she has IM'd me saying that an analysis needed "more sex." If it was all up to me, they would all be much more scholarly. Uh-huh
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Post by Nan-S'cubie Mascot on Sept 20, 2004 20:10:42 GMT -5
More gold, Spring. As has been said earlier, your interpretation of "Checkpoint" as marking the status of all the major characters at this point is so clear...once you've pointed it out.
I'll add that I think this is Buffy's highest point in the seasonal arc in terms of strength and confidence in herself. From this point, it's all downhill, culminating in her catatonic fugue in... have I got the title right?...The Weight of the World, where she's immobilized by the unthinkableness of her available choices, as she sees them, paralyzed by the probable consequences of any action she takes, and unsure of her own motivations (fantasizing that she's harmed Dawn as an infant, as a parallel to fearing the only choice is to kill Dawn, as Giles ruthlessly proposes).
I enjoy these analyses so much--all of them. But I confess I enjoy them more now that you've gotten into the substantial Spike episodes. Prejudiced? Moi?
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Post by SpringSummers on Sept 21, 2004 6:56:29 GMT -5
More gold, Spring. As has been said earlier, your interpretation of "Checkpoint" as marking the status of all the major characters at this point is so clear...once you've pointed it out. I'll add that I think this is Buffy's highest point in the seasonal arc in terms of strength and confidence in herself. From this point, it's all downhill, culminating in her catatonic fugue in... have I got the title right?...The Weight of the World, where she's immobilized by the unthinkableness of her available choices, as she sees them, paralyzed by the probable consequences of any action she takes, and unsure of her own motivations (fantasizing that she's harmed Dawn as an infant, as a parallel to fearing the only choice is to kill Dawn, as Giles ruthlessly proposes). I enjoy these analyses so much--all of them. But I confess I enjoy them more now that you've gotten into the substantial Spike episodes. Prejudiced? Moi? Hi, Nan - always good to hear from you. I definitely agree that this ep represents a highpoint for Buffy in Season 5. Lots of things begin to overwhelm her after this, and then lead to the big plunge. Prejudiced? You? Just because you enjoy my analyses more now that we're into the more Spikey eps? Don't be absurd. I enjoy writing them more now too, and I am the very soul of objectivity. Speaking of which, I am having loads of fun with Crush. It is every bit as Spikeful as Fool For Love but has a lighter touch, with so many, many funny lines and moments, along with the serious stuff. By the way - and I say this with a detached, professional eye - love the new avatar.
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Post by Lola m on Sept 25, 2004 19:06:35 GMT -5
Like several others have mentioned, I really liked your explanation of the title. An opportunity halfway through the season to stop and examine, inspect and determine everyone's location.
Following your lead, I really examined the scene where Buffy defeats the Knights to see that moment when she has her revelation about power. Oddly enough, I had never really thought about what that exact moment was. When did she really see the true power balance here. I had always kind of thought in a hazy way that it just "happened" some time after her talk with Glory. But after reading your analysis, I went back to that scene and saw the moment when she's looking at the sword and realizes . . . .
I really enjoyed the parallel use of lines. Quentin with his oh so condescending "Let me talk to Buffy. I think she's understanding me." And then Buffy at the end, turning it right back at him: "But I want an answer right now from Quentin. 'Cuz I think he's understanding me." Knowledge (understanding it, giving it or withholding of ) is used so often as weapon by the Council - a weapon that they have always enjoyed controlling.
Again, loved your analysis, Spring! You always manage to find so many threads and connections that I don't notice until you point them out. Thanks!
Lola
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Post by SpringSummers on Sept 25, 2004 22:59:53 GMT -5
Like several others have mentioned, I really liked your explanation of the title. An opportunity halfway through the season to stop and examine, inspect and determine everyone's location. Following your lead, I really examined the scene where Buffy defeats the Knights to see that moment when she has her revelation about power. Oddly enough, I had never really thought about what that exact moment was. When did she really see the true power balance here. I had always kind of thought in a hazy way that it just "happened" some time after her talk with Glory. But after reading your analysis, I went back to that scene and saw the moment when she's looking at the sword and realizes . . . . I really enjoyed the parallel use of lines. Quentin with his oh so condescending "Let me talk to Buffy. I think she's understanding me." And then Buffy at the end, turning it right back at him: "But I want an answer right now from Quentin. 'Cuz I think he's understanding me." Knowledge (understanding it, giving it or withholding of ) is used so often as weapon by the Council - a weapon that they have always enjoyed controlling. Again, loved your analysis, Spring! You always manage to find so many threads and connections that I don't notice until you point them out. Thanks! Lola Thanks for the feedback, Lola. As always, it means a lot to me when folks take the time to share their thoughts. Yes - I also loved the way Quentin's words came back to him when Buffy said "I think he's understanding me." So perfect!
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Post by Lissa on Sept 28, 2004 11:24:08 GMT -5
I want to say two things about this little ep. I love the eop, by the way.
1. Spike being questioned by the watchers was really funny! ;D
2. Buffy speech towards the Council was excellent. ( Hey, were those speeches in S7?) But, why the hell didn't she demand (ask) for some money??
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Oct 7, 2004 17:25:28 GMT -5
2. Buffy speech towards the Council was excellent. ( Hey, were those speeches in S7?) But, why the hell didn't she demand (ask) for some money?? Buffy's speeches in season 7 always make me think of how comparatively eloquent she was in this episode as well. I haven't really wrapped my brain around why her speeches were so dull in season 7 either, although I'm thinking it has something to do with Buffy's struggle with being an authority figure; acting as one vs being one. About the money issue, there's a pretty good discussion on the Angelphile board (for "In the Dark" I think) about why Angel set up his detective agency while Buffy refused to get paid for slaying.
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Post by Lissa on Oct 9, 2004 6:13:53 GMT -5
Buffy's speeches in season 7 always make me think of how comparatively eloquent she was in this episode as well. I haven't really wrapped my brain around why her speeches were so dull in season 7 either, although I'm thinking it has something to do with Buffy's struggle with being an authority figure; acting as one vs being one. Yeah, I think that's the case. She really tried to force her authority on others. That struck me the most in Empty Spaces.
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Post by Michelle on Aug 23, 2006 21:26:31 GMT -5
I really enjoyed reading this analysis, Spring! It's a good, solid episode, but after reading your thoughts, my opinion of it was definitely raised a couple notches. I've read it before, but I had forgotten your comment about the similarity of the hat she wears in this episode and the one she wears in Becoming II. I went back and checked, and by jove, you're right. It is the same hat! There is no way that can be a coincidence. Here's proof: From Becoming II: From Checkpoint: Also, Xander is wearing a cast on his right arm in both episodes. Xander's body took a lot more abuse than I originally remembered!
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Post by SpringSummers on Aug 24, 2006 7:53:10 GMT -5
I really enjoyed reading this analysis, Spring! It's a good, solid episode, but after reading your thoughts, my opinion of it was definitely raised a couple notches. I've read it before, but I had forgotten your comment about the similarity of the hat she wears in this episode and the one she wears in Becoming II. I went back and checked, and by jove, you're right. It is the same hat! There is no way that can be a coincidence. Here's proof: From Becoming II: From Checkpoint: Also, Xander is wearing a cast on his right arm in both episodes. Xander's body took a lot more abuse than I originally remembered! Thanks, Fotada. Ah -yep. There is no way that hat is coincidence. Good catch on the right arm of Xander also. Both eps feature the "Joyce & Spike trying to get comfortable together" scene, but the contrast between how it goes - this time as compared to last - is telling, when it comes to "where Spike is right now," and compliments the contrast in the way Buffy & Spike "make their deal," in this ep, as compared to last. I mean, when Spike says "yeah, yeah, I've heard it all before," (paraphrasing) he's talking about that scene in Buffy's house, in Becoming II. For both characters, the comparison to Becoming II gives us a clear look at their movement - as people in general and in their relationship - since the end of Season 2. The ep serves, as it's title says, as a Checkpoint for all our characters. It's like it's pointing right to a sign that says: Hey, look! Our characters have gone from point A, to point B! (which for this season, is about heading into "the woods").
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Post by baunger1 on Jul 27, 2012 9:40:09 GMT -5
Please forgive me in advance if this is less than coherent. I'm massively jet-lagged, but I really wanted to comment on this analysis.
The comparisons you point out between this episode and Becoming are so interesting. In Becoming, there is so much foreshadowing about the future formation of each character's identity. In Checkpoint, we see how far they've come, in the council interview scenes, and in Buffy's assessment in the final scene: Willow and Tara, in a relationship, and both powerful witches; Anya and Xander in a relationship, Anya an ex-demon and Xander a fighter with enormous field experience, and the heart of the Scoobies; Giles, an independent store-owner and restored Watcher; Spike, a vampire who helps Buffy fight but who really wants her to need him.
The scene in the crypt is incredible -- an echo of the bargain struck in Becoming, only then, Spike did out of love for Dru, and now he does it out of love for Buffy. They've crossed the checkpoint with each other here. The look on his face when he commits to her -- "I'm in" -- is absolutely beautiful. He starts the episode helping her slay a vampire in hopes of getting her gratitude. Instead, he gets something better -- her needing him (which she claims in the earlier scene she never will), and trusting him with her family, and with Dawn, the most precious part of herself.
The scene also put me in mind of their early encounter in School Hard. There, Spike says the weapon he's using to fight her makes him feel "all manly." Violence is manliness to him, but even then, he's willing to set it aside and be vulnerable in order to get his actual hands on her (which of course she suggests). Here, when she asks him to protect her family, he says, "That's a boatload of manly responsibility to come flying out of nowhere." Manliness has become responsibility -- responsibility for others, and to others. But it's hardly come out of nowhere -- he's been proving himself to her with good actions, slowly but surely.
There is something about this scene I can't quite grasp, though. Spike questions why Buffy can't protect Dawn and Joyce herself, asking, "Did they put a chip in you?" The chip has allowed that buried spark of goodness in Spike to begin to flame. It feels like the writers are deliberately making a comparison to what's going on with Buffy, but I'm not sure what. Something about accessing her buried darkness? Any thoughts?
And again, thank you for getting me thinking.
Apologies to baunger, I accidentally modified instead of replied . . . I think I got this post back to how it was originally posted by baunger.
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Post by SpringSummers on Jul 28, 2012 15:01:08 GMT -5
OK, you are forgiven right up front.
Well said - I love that scene in the crypt from beginning to end.
I never thought about the "manly" word there, but interesting thoughts about it. Weapons (to fight Buffy) made Spike feel manly, now responsibility (from Buffy) makes him feel manly.
Another example of how the characters have changed . . . moved from Point A in season 2, to their current location.
Yes, I think you are right, the writers are comparing what is happening to Buffy to what happened to Spike when he got a chip in his head.
And that gets me to thinking about what Spike did, when he realized he had a chip in his head and he was desperate for help: He turned to Buffy. He knocked on her door (well, it was Giles's door, in Pangs, but he was seeking out Buffy) and asked for help.
Spike is asking, in effect, "What's got you so desperate you've come to ME for help? What's made you so helpless?"
Of course, Buffy, is heading into the woods . . . and starting to get in touch with her darkness - let's see the chip helps Spike toward the light, what is comparable in Buffy, that is helping her into the woods?
This kinda makes my head spin, but I do think you are right about the deliberate mention of chip, meaning to compare what happened to Spike because of the chip, to what is happening to Buffy, as she heads into the woods, and starts making contact with her darkness.
You're welcome, and same to you.
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