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Post by Queen E on Jun 18, 2004 12:01:55 GMT -5
Feel free to rock us like a hurricane with your insights.
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Post by Cal on Jun 18, 2004 16:37:40 GMT -5
Another great analysis, Erin. Very interesting and well thought out. Thanks!
Can't wait until the next one!
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Post by Lola m on Jun 19, 2004 15:17:45 GMT -5
Erin – another keen analysis/review - thanks! I really noticed the themes of role playing and acting too. Like when Doyle tells Cordy she needs to be more subtle than just going up to folks, handing them the card with a “Hi! Are you in trouble?” – she responds with “I’m an actress!” Then just a brief moment later we meet Kate and my first thought was “but she is really the actress tonight, isn’t she?”, followed by “ahhh, but how much is she acting and how much is she saying how she actually feels?”. ‘Cuz like you said Yep, role-playing and “who are you” are everywhere in this ep. Angel and Kate introducing themselves – she’s asking the typical introductory stuff, “what do you do?” and he fumbles for a bit and ends up with veterinarian? Then, again just a brief while later, Kate says “It’s not like anybody is gonna come up and show you who they really are.” Now, I happen to believe that another major theme in AtS is finding your way as a young adult, particularly in a big urban environment (there’s that noir thing again). Not looking at quite the same time of life as in BtVS – the HS/College/right after “gosh what am I going to do now” time. More like the 20’s-30’s, working/career decisions, creating family and friends, actually being an adult, time of life. I liked your point about the multiple examples of characters trying to “make a connection”. ‘Cuz I think that was this episode’s particular point to make about that young adult time. Certainly not in any subtexty way, it’s right out there as text. Singles bars, the dating scene, the difficulty of meeting someone, the loneliness and anonymity of the big city, etc. I think of Kate’s lines, “Ragging on this place, I still come here most every night. How else are you going to meet somebody outside of work?” as the classic modern day young adult lament. Or after the bar fight, the conversation between Angel, Cordy and Doyle is particularly telling. Phew. Wordy, much? I better save some of my thoughts for when we are all discussing this ep again a week or two from now. Anyway, nice job. I'm enjoying your "speculations" as much as Spring's "ebulgeometric analyses". Lola
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Post by Queen E on Jun 19, 2004 18:34:22 GMT -5
Erin – another keen analysis/review - thanks! I really noticed the themes of role playing and acting too. Like when Doyle tells Cordy she needs to be more subtle than just going up to folks, handing them the card with a “Hi! Are you in trouble?” – she responds with “I’m an actress!” Then just a brief moment later we meet Kate and my first thought was “but she is really the actress tonight, isn’t she?”, followed by “ahhh, but how much is she acting and how much is she saying how she actually feels?”. ‘Cuz like you said Yep, role-playing and “who are you” are everywhere in this ep. Angel and Kate introducing themselves – she’s asking the typical introductory stuff, “what do you do?” and he fumbles for a bit and ends up with veterinarian? Then, again just a brief while later, Kate says “It’s not like anybody is gonna come up and show you who they really are.” Now, I happen to believe that another major theme in AtS is finding your way as a young adult, particularly in a big urban environment (there’s that noir thing again). Not looking at quite the same time of life as in BtVS – the HS/College/right after “gosh what am I going to do now” time. More like the 20’s-30’s, working/career decisions, creating family and friends, actually being an adult, time of life. I liked your point about the multiple examples of characters trying to “make a connection”. ‘Cuz I think that was this episode’s particular point to make about that young adult time. Certainly not in any subtexty way, it’s right out there as text. Singles bars, the dating scene, the difficulty of meeting someone, the loneliness and anonymity of the big city, etc. I think of Kate’s lines, “Ragging on this place, I still come here most every night. How else are you going to meet somebody outside of work?” as the classic modern day young adult lament. Or after the bar fight, the conversation between Angel, Cordy and Doyle is particularly telling. Phew. Wordy, much? I better save some of my thoughts for when we are all discussing this ep again a week or two from now. Anyway, nice job. I'm enjoying your "speculations" as much as Spring's "ebulgeometric analyses". Lola Wow. I don't know if I'm worthy of such a compliment, but thank you! And I like wordy. It was a bit overwhelming, watching this episode, because there were so many examples of the central theme; it's hard to cull out which ones are the most vital to the episode. And this is the episode in which the line, "High school's over" actually appears and you can see the notable difference in the amounts of dark and light from Angel to Buffy. And establishes another major difference between the two shows in how much more interaction the AI crew has with their living environment than do the Scooby gang. I am so glad to have your insights on this; they really challenge me to write something worth commenting on! Thanks, Lola!
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Post by Joshua Adams on Jun 19, 2004 21:13:47 GMT -5
Now, I happen to believe that another major theme in AtS is finding your way as a young adult, particularly in a big urban environment (there’s that noir thing again). Not looking at quite the same time of life as in BtVS – the HS/College/right after “gosh what am I going to do now” time. More like the 20’s-30’s, working/career decisions, creating family and friends, actually being an adult, time of life. I liked your point about the multiple examples of characters trying to “make a connection”. ‘Cuz I think that was this episode’s particular point to make about that young adult time. Certainly not in any subtexty way, it’s right out there as text. Singles bars, the dating scene, the difficulty of meeting someone, the loneliness and anonymity of the big city, etc. I think of Kate’s lines, “Ragging on this place, I still come here most every night. How else are you going to meet somebody outside of work?” as the classic modern day young adult lament. Or after the bar fight, the conversation between Angel, Cordy and Doyle is particularly telling. Lola Sounds like a bloody wonderful world you humans have gone and created for me. Oh well, it's still brighter than Buffy in Season Seven.
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Post by Queen E on Jun 19, 2004 22:13:42 GMT -5
Sounds like a bloody wonderful world you humans have gone and created for me. Oh well, it's still brighter than Buffy in Season Seven. Well, you could decide to be a perpetual student and get multiple PhDs and avoid the whole thing completely. Or get married before you graduate college. Other than that...
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Post by Rachael on Jun 21, 2004 12:12:36 GMT -5
Well, you could decide to be a perpetual student and get multiple PhDs and avoid the whole thing completely. Or get married before you graduate college. Other than that... Stop it. It's depressing.
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Post by Queen E on Jun 21, 2004 15:32:53 GMT -5
Stop it. It's depressing. Sorry. I did mean it to be rather facetious.
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Post by Rachael on Jun 21, 2004 17:17:29 GMT -5
Sorry. I did mean it to be rather facetious. I know. . .but it's so true it's scary. Over 30 and a wallflower in a singles-bar world. . . .
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Post by Karen on Jun 21, 2004 18:02:49 GMT -5
Feel free to rock us like a hurricane with your insights. Great review, Erin. I don't have anything earthshattering to add. I love the "who are you" aspect of your review. It takes a long time for some of us to figure that out. Like the demon in this ep, trying to find the right fit, many of us try to find the perfect fit in a mate - one that will make us feel whole - and we'll know it when we find "the one". It just doesn't usually work that way. I think that I had the most sympathy and revulsion for this demon out of all the demons on "Angel". And Angel's "ANGEL: Good. I'm going to get back to the bar, see if I can find this thing. CORDELIA: What makes you think that it will show? It knows that you're after it. ANGEL: It'll be out there. It's got to keep trying to make a connection. CORDELIA: Why? ANGEL: Because that's what lonely people do." made me sad because that is what Angel feels about himself. Ah, I must run. But I had to chime in with many kudos! You rock, Erin!
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Post by Queen E on Jun 21, 2004 18:56:19 GMT -5
Great review, Erin. I don't have anything earthshattering to add. I love the "who are you" aspect of your review. It takes a long time for some of us to figure that out. Like the demon in this ep, trying to find the right fit, many of us try to find the perfect fit in a mate - one that will make us feel whole - and we'll know it when we find "the one". It just doesn't usually work that way. I think that I had the most sympathy and revulsion for this demon out of all the demons on "Angel". And Angel's "ANGEL: Good. I'm going to get back to the bar, see if I can find this thing. CORDELIA: What makes you think that it will show? It knows that you're after it. ANGEL: It'll be out there. It's got to keep trying to make a connection. CORDELIA: Why? ANGEL: Because that's what lonely people do." made me sad because that is what Angel feels about himself. Ah, I must run. But I had to chime in with many kudos! You rock, Erin! I had forgotten, 'til I got the DVD, how jam-packed full of riches these episodes are; due to the WB's stupidity of never rerunning Angel, it was nearly like seeing them again for the first time. Thank you, Karen; so glad to have your thoughts on this episode, and for your kudos!
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Post by Lola m on Jun 21, 2004 19:23:51 GMT -5
Great review, Erin. I don't have anything earthshattering to add. I love the "who are you" aspect of your review. It takes a long time for some of us to figure that out. Like the demon in this ep, trying to find the right fit, many of us try to find the perfect fit in a mate - one that will make us feel whole - and we'll know it when we find "the one". It just doesn't usually work that way. I think that I had the most sympathy and revulsion for this demon out of all the demons on "Angel". And Angel's "ANGEL: Good. I'm going to get back to the bar, see if I can find this thing. CORDELIA: What makes you think that it will show? It knows that you're after it. ANGEL: It'll be out there. It's got to keep trying to make a connection. CORDELIA: Why? ANGEL: Because that's what lonely people do." made me sad because that is what Angel feels about himself. Ah, I must run. But I had to chime in with many kudos! You rock, Erin! And when Angel says that line, both Cordy and Doyle get these... looks. Like he just made them realize something icky about their own lives. But I liked how at the end, when he wants to go out and they say no and Angel is alone in the dark, he looks happy this time. As though he realized something about himself and is more, maybe, content? Lola
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Post by Queen E on Jun 22, 2004 19:29:51 GMT -5
And when Angel says that line, both Cordy and Doyle get these... looks. Like he just made them realize something icky about their own lives. But I liked how at the end, when he wants to go out and they say no and Angel is alone in the dark, he looks happy this time. As though he realized something about himself and is more, maybe, content? Lola I think it's both that, and the fact that he is happy that he at least made an effort to think of what Cordelia and Doyle might want, and was willing to make a sacrifice on their behalf, and then found he didn't need to. Which is doubly sad given the huge sacrifices he'll make for them both later on; maybe perhaps his last moment of rest?
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Post by Nickim on Jul 24, 2004 8:32:26 GMT -5
Another thought about the demon looking for the "right one". When someone marries and has troubles and decides to bail instead of working it out--if possible--they usually take the same troubles into a new relationship. We need to work out the problems in ourselves before we look for that "right one." If we're selfish and unhappy before we're in a relationship, we'll be selfish and unhappy in a relationship + we'll be making someone else unhappy.
We need to be whole without another person in our lives, instead of looking for someone to "make us complete" or "make us happy." The best relationships, the ones that last, are the joining of 2 people who are happy as singles, and want to share that happiness with someone.
I don't know if I expressed this very well, but I hope it makes sense.
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Post by Linda on Aug 1, 2004 23:46:02 GMT -5
Hi Erin!
Another great analysis! This was *not* one of my favorite episodes, but thanks to your analysis, I got to look beyond the meh-ness and into the meanings behind it.
Eetah on the role-playing. And the connections between Talamour and Angel/Angelus.
And thanks for including the lyrics to the featured song "Touched." I see how you connected the song to what was happening to Angel & Kate as well as to Talamour. However, in reading the lyrics, what jumps out at me is how well it describes Angel's feelings for Buffy:
i'll never find someone quite like you again i looked into your eyes and saw a world that does not exist i looked into your eyes and saw a world i wish i was in ... i'll never love someone quite the way that I loved you
And because the lyrics brought Buffy to my mind, I was wondering, since it was playing over that Kate/Angel/Talamour montage, whether Kate was being set up as Angel's "Riley." Because one of the things that Angel and Talamour had in common was a fatal vulnerability to fire.
Fire in the Jossverse is passion & true emotion. You know: Spike! (Oh, that's just to me. And to Buffy. And to 80% of the S'cubies...) Where was I? Oh, yeah... Whenever you see the "afterglow" of the Talamour couplings, the bed partners seemed very isolated and disconnected, their body language saying "I'm soooo uncomfortable right now," pretty much stating that there was no true passion involved in the sex.
And, when you look at the series over its entire run, no fiery passion for Angel except for Buffy in IWRY. And *that* got erased. Darla? Despair. Nina? Pleasant intimacy. Even his love for Cordy did not strike me as a fiery passion-thing. For example, during Awakenings in Season 4, it was Buffy's name that he called out just before his soul was extracted, not Cordy's.
All of this makes me wonder if, from the very beginning, they were saying: No perfect smoochies for you, Angel. And that the reason Angel was so happy about being alone in the dark at the end of the episode was that he doesn't have to be in any danger of making another connection like his connection with Buffy.
You know, so Cordy doesn't have to end up working for a homicidal maniac.
So, thanks Erin, for the analysis. And for making this episode *much* more interesting than it was before.
Linda, hmmm ... Spike ...
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