Post by Queen E on Dec 4, 2006 6:55:46 GMT -5
karen said:
mt said:
Thanks, Onjybaby! It was an intriguing episode to write about.
As for the cosmology of the Angel-/Buffyverse, it's tricky; perhaps they did not think out all the implications of "soul/not soul." Or perhaps the word "soul" is merely the shorthand for conscience. If one views Ryan as a sociopath, he knows right and wrong but he lack empathy and things he's above it. Often times "soulless" is used as a shorthand for "sociopath," which is what I felt they were pushing for.
And I think it's useful to view the Ethros as a vampire of a sort; he starves without being "fed" the corruption of innocence. The "nothing" he gets from Ryan is starving him, and he is seeing his own death inside this boy and no way to escape...
Onto the good v. evil, and the notion of choice, I think the scariest part is that neither Ryan nor Angelus nor Spike really do have the choice whether or not to commit evil. Ryan, according to the ideas presented in this episode, was born that way. And until Angelus and Spike have their demons forcibly leashed, they either (and this is where it gets murky) lack the equipment or the motivation to deny the impulses of the demon inside.
I'm not sure I'm making any sense anymore, but those are my initial thoughts...
I really enjoyed re-reading this thread. You all are so insightful!
Re: in red - In Sanctuary, when Faith turned herself, she basically forcibly leashed herself to get the help she needed to help her deny her evil impulses. But you got to want it change, and you have to have someone who believes in you - like Angel does.
WESLEY: I don't know how much my opinion counts for, but I think you did the right thing.
ANGEL: Yelling at Buffy?
WESLEY: No. The other thing.
ANGEL: I didn't do it. Faith did.
WELSEY: I hope she's strong enough to make it. Peace is not an easy thing to find.
ANGEL: She has a chance.
One thing that struck me while reading your comments was how Ethros parallels Angelus's feelings that he talks about in Orpheus. ANGELUS: Worst were the concerts. (Angel watches hungrily as a couple walks by) You know what that's like? Every time he gets close, I feel it. Wanting to tear their flesh apart. The hunger. It's like a blade in my gut. You could say that Angelus was slowly starving inside Angel, as Ethros was starving inside Ryan.
Angel was on his way to find some peace - most probably why he got the offer from W&H to take over the law firm. //tangent//
I love how all the Jossverse eps tie together in one way or another!!
Me too! And thanks for commenting on my stuff!
You are absolutely right; excellent connection. It's funny, too, that the scene takes place in a diner; it gives a whole new meaning to "on the menu." Hunger for power, hunger for connection; Angelus will feed on anything that might give him the advantage. Even when he was in the cage and couldn't hunt, he just did it more subtly in that trio of episodes.
Yet Angelus hadn't yet reached that level of desperation that the Ethros had...he was angry at being leashed; the Ethros was ready to die. It would be easier (and I think what Angel wants) to be able to "expel" Angelus like he did the Ethros, but that's not possible. Faith is an excellent example (thank you!) for this episode and for Season 4; Angel and Faith have mirrored each other since "Consequences" and those impulses to do evil will always be there...
And, oh yeah. Mind you, it wouldn't have been a very happy peace, but definitely a plateau of understand. The only question I have is, if W & H hadn't offered to "save" Connor, would Angel have been able to talk him down?