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Post by Lola m on Aug 18, 2004 15:14:32 GMT -5
<snip> naked Angel with the careful camera angles. kinda pretty. Oh, I hadn’t noticed. Well, now that you mention it, yeah, he’s not too shabby. **lusty sigh, Lola fans self** Ooooo! Hadn’t thought of it like that at all. But it makes sense. I mean, from the way Spike talks later you know all the . . . . acrobatic excess . . . is not just because of him. All the “gave me a run for my money” lines and so on. I can see why he maybe thought that, ‘cuz of how when he first got the visions TPTB told him to go find Angel and work with him. But, if he’d just think a little more about it, why would a change in Angel’s deal necessarily cut him loose? I mean, TPTB could just send him on to the next champion. Not skipping. Maybe giggling a bit, but never skipping. Yep! Yepper! Yessiree! Right there with you scooter. Both Angel and Buffy seem to set such, “black and white, all or nothing” kind of requirements for themselves and their happiness. Angel can see the grey easier than Buffy (comes with time and experience) but he has trouble applying this to himself. I go back and forth on my opinion on this being really gender related. It wouldn’t be out of the realm of possibility for it to be. But I also see this as related to: 1) Angel’s continuing feelings of guilt – how could he stand to be “responsible” if Buffy were hurt because of him (not seeing that of course it’s not “because” of him, it being her destiny and job and all, no matter the person who is in need of save-age) and 2) total freak out over a change in his own role in the world and not having a clue what that means. Frankly, I always thought if Buffy were to become that “normal girl” she wants to be so badly that she would go bonkers shortly thereafter, just from realizing the full impact of this change in her life. Well, not if you’re a good employee. Cordy, on the other hand . . . No, I totally get what you mean. I think it is just the same as how I imagine Buffy would feel if she really got her ordinary life. And how can I blame either of them for feeling that way? No easy choices for either of them, not with the lives they are working with and the rigid way they are viewing their options. Lola
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Post by Lola m on Aug 18, 2004 15:17:25 GMT -5
<snip> Man: "Temporal folds are not to indulge at - the whims of lower beings." Woman: "You are wrong." important to note, Oracles can be wrong too. look surprised about it but they disagree with each other and she says he is wrong. so one of them is wrong. but people go to them for advice. This is one of the things I really love about the way the Oracles are presented. They disagree on issues and have a ability to be wrong. Means that life and the future and the way things work is not so cut and dried. I prefer a universe that is more flexible, more adaptable (Spike would approve). Really! Does she know how to push his buttons, or what?! This last scene really does tug at the heart strings, even now when I am convinced that Buffy and Angel are really best apart. Both actors and the script and the music and everything just combine so well. Great thoughts, once again, becca. Thanks! Lola
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Post by beccaelizabeth on Aug 18, 2004 15:34:26 GMT -5
Not skipping. Maybe giggling a bit, but never skipping. and now I did the detailed viewing of the episode Angel I know the covers on Angel's bed then are all red and white. So theres a whole lot less red in his new life. which actually figures.
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Post by Onjel on Jul 30, 2006 13:30:19 GMT -5
It's time for a new week of the 2006 Sizzlin' Episode Festival! "I like Time. There is so little and so much of it."This week's episode is I Will Remember You and you have plenty of time to "chat, squee, think deep or shallow thoughts, post wild-ass theories, write fic or poems in homage, discuss arcane points of interest, post pretty pictures, and just generally wibble on about this ep. We eagerly await whatever you’ve got to say or show!" [/b] "I have this whole new life spread before me. I don't know where to begin." You actually have the whole new week spread out before you. Don't know where to begin? Go here for a transcript of the show. "Oh, please! They've got the forbidden love of all time. They have been apart for months. Now he's suddenly human? I'm sure they are down there just having tea and crackers." Love of this episode isn't forbidden, so don't waste time on tea and crackers, when Erin's insightful episode analysis is here. "I think, maybe we'd be asking for trouble rushing back into things. Not that I don't want to - rush. Believe me, I do." We think you should rush on over to this place to discuss the episode itself or over to this place to discuss Erin's analysis. "I'm finally free to go out in the world and make me own mark in the world." So go and make your mark talking about #6 on the list of all time favorite Angel episodes for 2006!
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Post by leftylady on Jul 31, 2006 19:15:05 GMT -5
Ah, ain’t love grand? And the choices we make in love.
It’s so coincidentally handy that we have both “IWRY” and “Pangs” together for our Episode Festival, for they both so speak to love, Buffy and Angel and the never to be.
In Pangs we find Buffy in full-maternal mode gathering her family in the ritual of love and thankfulness, but who’s there but not there? Angel. Outside, in the dark, walking away yet again. By his own choice, excluding Buffy from the decision. But who’s inside, at the table, invited though not entirely welcome – Spike!!
Then I Will Remember You, a chance for love without impediments, and Angel gives it all away. Again by his own choice, excluding Buffy from the decision. Angel never learns.
We really should think of Something Blue with this, since it followed right after Pangs/IWRY. Buffy and Spike choosing to express their love. Yes, choosing. Willow’s spell only specified marriage. The results of lovey-dovey, kissy-face? Where did that come from if not somewhere inside them?
Angel, hanging around, choosing to be alone again. And Buffy choosing to move on? She’s flirting with Riley, but where’s the fire? We know who’s got the spark.
I love the richness in going back on these old episodes.
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Post by Onjel on Jul 31, 2006 19:53:41 GMT -5
Ah, ain’t love grand? And the choices we make in love. It’s so coincidentally handy that we have both “IWRY” and “Pangs” together for our Episode Festival, for they both so speak to love, Buffy and Angel and the never to be. In Pangs we find Buffy in full-maternal mode gathering her family in the ritual of love and thankfulness, but who’s there but not there? Angel. Outside, in the dark, walking away yet again. By his own choice, excluding Buffy from the decision. But who’s inside, at the table, invited though not entirely welcome – Spike!! Then I Will Remember You, a chance for love without impediments, and Angel gives it all away. Again by his own choice, excluding Buffy from the decision. Angel never learns. We really should think of Something Blue with this, since it followed right after Pangs/IWRY. Buffy and Spike choosing to express their love. Yes, choosing. Willow’s spell only specified marriage. The results of lovey-dovey, kissy-face? Where did that come from if not somewhere inside them? Angel, hanging around, choosing to be alone again. And Buffy choosing to move on? She’s flirting with Riley, but where’s the fire? We know who’s got the spark. I love the richness in going back on these old episodes. Exactly. Angel makes decisions for Buffy's "welfare" without even consulting her, treating her again like a little girl. This is a great crossover episode with Buffy confronting Angel on his decision to remain all shadow guy and not inform her that he was in Sunnydale during Pangs. She's growing up, because time has a way of doing that to human beings, even if some of us fight it tooth and nail. Angel has plenty of time, but chooses to remain in his prison of eternal youth and life. As Erin pointed out, Angel deprives himself of all pleasure and taste of happiness, because he fears not the demon Angelus, but the man, Liam. At this point, he is the same old high-handed Angel, broody and alone, because once again he chooses to be. Erin made the point that without Buffy, time is meaningless to Angel, and I agree. It was meaningless before Buffy and is meaningless now that she is gone, except as an eternal existence of repentence. Hell, I'd stake myself if I were Angel and that is what faced me. Where am I going with this? I haven't the foggiest idea. Funny, how we see Buffy change and Spike change. Riley, IMO, actually remains the same as does Angel. So, what does this mean for the relationships? If a relationship can't weather the changes that take place in each individual, it's not the right mix. And, I agree about the Something Blue spell. I hadn't really noticed, but you are right about Willow's spell specifying marriage, not love. Plenty of marriages have been based on things other than love, so where did the love come from? From deep within. I'm obviously rambling here, but Erin got me to thinking as did your comments Leftylady. Thanks for giving me the opportunity to babble inanely. ;d
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Post by Queen E on Jul 31, 2006 20:06:41 GMT -5
Ah, ain’t love grand? And the choices we make in love. It’s so coincidentally handy that we have both “IWRY” and “Pangs” together for our Episode Festival, for they both so speak to love, Buffy and Angel and the never to be. In Pangs we find Buffy in full-maternal mode gathering her family in the ritual of love and thankfulness, but who’s there but not there? Angel. Outside, in the dark, walking away yet again. By his own choice, excluding Buffy from the decision. But who’s inside, at the table, invited though not entirely welcome – Spike!! Then I Will Remember You, a chance for love without impediments, and Angel gives it all away. Again by his own choice, excluding Buffy from the decision. Angel never learns. We really should think of Something Blue with this, since it followed right after Pangs/IWRY. Buffy and Spike choosing to express their love. Yes, choosing. Willow’s spell only specified marriage. The results of lovey-dovey, kissy-face? Where did that come from if not somewhere inside them? Angel, hanging around, choosing to be alone again. And Buffy choosing to move on? She’s flirting with Riley, but where’s the fire? We know who’s got the spark. I love the richness in going back on these old episodes. Exactly. Angel makes decisions for Buffy's "welfare" without even consulting her, treating her again like a little girl. This is a great crossover episode with Buffy confronting Angel on his decision to remain all shadow guy and not inform her that he was in Sunnydale during Pangs. She's growing up, because time has a way of doing that to human beings, even if some of us fight it tooth and nail. Angel has plenty of time, but chooses to remain in his prison of eternal youth and life. As Erin pointed out, Angel deprives himself of all pleasure and taste of happiness, because he fears not the demon Angelus, but the man, Liam. At this point, he is the same old high-handed Angel, broody and alone, because once again he chooses to be. Erin made the point that without Buffy, time is meaningless to Angel, and I agree. It was meaningless before Buffy and is meaningless now that she is gone, except as an eternal existence of repentence. Hell, I'd stake myself if I were Angel and that is what faced me. Where am I going with this? I haven't the foggiest idea. Funny, how we see Buffy change and Spike change. Riley, IMO, actually remains the same as does Angel. So, what does this mean for the relationships? If a relationship can't weather the changes that take place in each individual, it's not the right mix. And, I agree about the Something Blue spell. I hadn't really noticed, but you are right about Willow's spell specifying marriage, not love. Plenty of marriages have been based on things other than love, so where did the love come from? From deep within. I'm obviously rambling here, but Erin got me to thinking as did your comments Leftylady. Thanks for giving me the opportunity to babble inanely. ;d Not inane at all! Very excellent points. I wonder why it is that Riley remains stagnant. Perhaps an argument can be made that just as Angel is hamstrung by his demon (and his past), Riley is hamstrung by his inability to effectively resist authority. Much like Angel, he was "made" into the adult Riley Finn by the influence of Maggie Walsh. Much like Angel, picking out which pieces of yourself are yours and which were thrust upon you (by vampirism or the Initiative), is an insanely difficult process. Spike, however, has always been aware of his created myth; perhaps that gives him more flexibility?
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Post by Onjel on Jul 31, 2006 20:34:07 GMT -5
Exactly. Angel makes decisions for Buffy's "welfare" without even consulting her, treating her again like a little girl. This is a great crossover episode with Buffy confronting Angel on his decision to remain all shadow guy and not inform her that he was in Sunnydale during Pangs. She's growing up, because time has a way of doing that to human beings, even if some of us fight it tooth and nail. Angel has plenty of time, but chooses to remain in his prison of eternal youth and life. As Erin pointed out, Angel deprives himself of all pleasure and taste of happiness, because he fears not the demon Angelus, but the man, Liam. At this point, he is the same old high-handed Angel, broody and alone, because once again he chooses to be. Erin made the point that without Buffy, time is meaningless to Angel, and I agree. It was meaningless before Buffy and is meaningless now that she is gone, except as an eternal existence of repentence. Hell, I'd stake myself if I were Angel and that is what faced me. Where am I going with this? I haven't the foggiest idea. Funny, how we see Buffy change and Spike change. Riley, IMO, actually remains the same as does Angel. So, what does this mean for the relationships? If a relationship can't weather the changes that take place in each individual, it's not the right mix. And, I agree about the Something Blue spell. I hadn't really noticed, but you are right about Willow's spell specifying marriage, not love. Plenty of marriages have been based on things other than love, so where did the love come from? From deep within. I'm obviously rambling here, but Erin got me to thinking as did your comments Leftylady. Thanks for giving me the opportunity to babble inanely. ;d Not inane at all! Very excellent points. I wonder why it is that Riley remains stagnant. Perhaps an argument can be made that just as Angel is hamstrung by his demon (and his past), Riley is hamstrung by his inability to effectively resist authority. Much like Angel, he was "made" into the adult Riley Finn by the influence of Maggie Walsh. Much like Angel, picking out which pieces of yourself are yours and which were thrust upon you (by vampirism or the Initiative), is an insanely difficult process. Spike, however, has always been aware of his created myth; perhaps that gives him more flexibility? Thanks. I don't spend a lot of thinky time on these, so when I post, it's off the cuff and the top of my head, so I appreciate the compliment, coming from someone who actually does put time into thinking about the show. I think you've hit on something interesting. Spike was very aware that his persona was a thing of his own creation, and not the William underneath. William may have been an early version of today's metrosexual, in Spike's mind, but he wasn't a wastrel or ne'er do well. That explains why he went in the opposite direction with his Spikeness. But, still, he knew who he was, and, as the Smurf said, he retained some humanity. That helped him to be more adaptable, I think. Angel knew who Liam was, but his dislike for his human, wastrel self was so intense, and his actual nature so rigid, that once he got his soul, he had to make sure he wasn't going to be Liam, but would atone not only for Angelus' sins, but Liam's, I think. I also think that Angel really has a very rigid unforgiving personality and that prevents him from changing and adapting to things. Just look at how Spike eats human food, for example! He's not one to deny himself any pleasure, gastronomic or otherwise. Even without a soul, Spike was more human than Angel would let himself be.
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Post by Matthew on Aug 2, 2006 13:42:35 GMT -5
(Initial thoughts before reading all the thinky goodness already here) Regarding "I will Remember you" (Onjel's avatar reminded me) I've always been conflicted as to whether Angel wiping the memory of that day from Buffy's brain was a kindness or a cruelty: I mostly think that it was a pile of paternalistic protectiveness on his part, and my heart breaks into little pieces for Buffy when she is desperately insisting she won't forget.... That episode is the closest I get to being a bangel 'shipper, myself, even despite that move he pulls on her. Then I watch some season six of BtVS and the feeling goes away. Neat in the way it presages what he decides to do to/with Connor.
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Post by leftylady on Aug 2, 2006 17:30:36 GMT -5
(Initial thoughts before reading all the thinky goodness already here) Regarding "I will Remember you" (Onjel's avatar reminded me) I've always been conflicted as to whether Angel wiping the memory of that day from Buffy's brain was a kindness or a cruelty: I mostly think that it was a pile of paternalistic protectiveness on his part, and my heart breaks into little pieces for Buffy when she is desperately insisting she won't forget.... That episode is the closest I get to being a bangel 'shipper, myself, even despite that move he pulls on her. Then I watch some season six of BtVS and the feeling goes away. Neat in the way it presages what he decides to do to/with Connor. Yes, IWRY makes the mystical forgetting seem so "romantic", but Tara had it right. It's a violation of the mind. Buffy wasn't given the choice in either undoing the day or whether she would remember anything. Of course this was Angel's show, so he gets to be the long suffering, doomed hero. Just another addition to his cursed existence.
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Post by Lola m on Aug 3, 2006 21:49:16 GMT -5
Ah, ain’t love grand? And the choices we make in love. It’s so coincidentally handy that we have both “IWRY” and “Pangs” together for our Episode Festival, for they both so speak to love, Buffy and Angel and the never to be. I just love the neat coincidences we keep seeing in the Festival - both last year and this. I mean, yes it is natural that we'd see recurring themes, what with the strong ideas that are always running through both shows, but we also keep getting these very cool parallels. Really love looking at the old eps too. I've soooo been enjoying re-watching the seasons in order on FX and TNT. There's something about the orderly progression of eps in order that just re-hooks me on the whole 'verse all over again. Also, IMHO it's not only Buffy choosing to move on. I really think we're seeing Angel choosing to move on as well. He's realizing that, at least at this moment in time, they each have things they need to be doing - separate things that are crucial to each of them.
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Post by jeff on Jul 12, 2007 22:54:42 GMT -5
This is the second episode in the last 5 that Angel has got to be in the sunlight. It was a great way to "Lighten" up the series. Buffy is all about the daylight this season with college and all. But Angel is pretty much a dark only show. It is not until season 5 we get a bunch of daylight.
I am not a Bangel fan. I tried to vid this episode, it did not go well. ROFL It is a great episode though. SMG really broke my heart at the end of it. and DB was fantastic with the food and the facial expressions. Very well acted
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