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Post by leftylady on Oct 3, 2005 18:11:30 GMT -5
Oh, one more thing, while I'm still at my computer, did anyone else get "Jasmine" flashbacks seeing Zoe in her long dress (Zoe in a dress!!!) at the funeral?
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Post by Karen on Oct 4, 2005 11:07:29 GMT -5
Oh, one more thing, while I'm still at my computer, did anyone else get "Jasmine" flashbacks seeing Zoe in her long dress (Zoe in a dress!!!) at the funeral? Now that you mention it, Zoe in a dress is very Jasmine-like, but I flashed on Buffy/Tara in the desert scene in "Restless". The tombstones with the moving pictures on them were hard for me to look at.
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Post by Onjel on Oct 4, 2005 11:12:48 GMT -5
Oh, one more thing, while I'm still at my computer, did anyone else get "Jasmine" flashbacks seeing Zoe in her long dress (Zoe in a dress!!!) at the funeral? Now that you mention it, Zoe in a dress is very Jasmine-like, but I flashed on Buffy/Tara in the desert scene in "Restless". The tombstones with the moving pictures on them were hard for me to look at. Me too! I thought about Restless as well. I understand that they have things like those pictures available for tombstones now, with short videos embedded in the granite. I don't know how I feel about that.
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Post by leftylady on Oct 4, 2005 11:27:33 GMT -5
Another memorable moment:
Mal and Inara agreeing that the "ship" was still good.
Yeah, for M/I !!
Oh and someone posted on the Spoiler thread about River's pose with weapons after taking out the Reavers as "Anne"-like. I hadn't made that connection but couldn't help but think of the fight as River going all Buffy on the Initiative demons Reavers.
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Post by Karen on Oct 4, 2005 11:44:49 GMT -5
I wondered if my kids would "get" Zoe and how she showed or didn't show her grief. But my son, Lew, after I told him how I cried after Wash got killed (how hard it is to type that ) - partly because of Zoe's reaction, because the shock of seeing him die so suddenly (it's the timing, always the timing that is so shocking) - I couldn't let go of my grief until I saw Zoe's reaction - said he teared up during Zoe/Mal's conversation here: Mal to Zoe: So what do you think. Will she fly? Zoe: She's been torn up a lot. But she'll fly true. He felt that she would not break down in front of Mal, because he is her captain - it is not expected - they are soldiers. But now she has no one with whom to be herself with. That's what is so devastating. Her soulmate is gone. The one with whom she could cry with. How will she deal with that? Love your examples. I did think about the whole Jasmine arc when I heard what the name of the drug - PAX. Peace. Big theme in the Jossverse. Of course, made me think of: Angelus: It hurts sometimes more than we can bear. If we could live without passion, maybe we'd know some kind of peace. But we would be hollow. Empty rooms, shuttered and dank... Without passion, we'd be truly dead.Thank you for all the quoteage and excellent thoughts, Linda. How hard did I laugh at: Kaylee: It's been over a year since I ain't had anything between my nethers that weren't battery powered. Mal: Oh God, I don't need to hear that! Jayne: I don't mind...
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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on Oct 4, 2005 15:02:12 GMT -5
I wondered if my kids would "get" Zoe and how she showed or didn't show her grief. But my son, Lew, after I told him how I cried after Wash got killed (how hard it is to type that ) - partly because of Zoe's reaction, because the shock of seeing him die so suddenly (it's the timing, always the timing that is so shocking) - I couldn't let go of my grief until I saw Zoe's reaction - said he teared up during Zoe/Mal's conversation here: Mal to Zoe: So what do you think. Will she fly? Zoe: She's been torn up a lot. But she'll fly true. He felt that she would not break down in front of Mal, because he is her captain - it is not expected - they are soldiers. But now she has no one with whom to be herself with. That's what is so devastating. Her soulmate is gone. The one with whom she could cry with. How will she deal with that? Love your examples. I did think about the whole Jasmine arc when I heard what the name of the drug - PAX. Peace. Big theme in the Jossverse. Of course, made me think of: Angelus: It hurts sometimes more than we can bear. If we could live without passion, maybe we'd know some kind of peace. But we would be hollow. Empty rooms, shuttered and dank... Without passion, we'd be truly dead.Thank you for all the quoteage and excellent thoughts, Linda. How hard did I laugh at: Kaylee: It's been over a year since I ain't had anything between my nethers that weren't battery powered. Mal: Oh God, I don't need to hear that! Jayne: I don't mind... Good points about Zoe (many of which I tried to make myself not that anyone noticed). Your quote is very telling - "She's been torn up a lot. But she'll fly true." Zoe is a survivor. She'll live, she'll keep on doing what she has to, but she won't, I think, be truly alive without Wash. I think the entire audience laughed at Kaylee. In the future, everyone will have vibrators, apparently. Talk about Utopia.
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Post by Linda on Oct 5, 2005 4:29:42 GMT -5
Oh, one more thing, while I'm still at my computer, did anyone else get "Jasmine" flashbacks seeing Zoe in her long dress (Zoe in a dress!!!) at the funeral? Actually, the Jasmine flashback to me was the Teacher at the beginning. She was pleasant, soft-spoken, kind and scary as anything. Her agenda (as an agent of the Alliance) was pretty close to Jasmine's. Oh, and she's the actress who plays Walt's mom on Lost. I don't recall her name, but she's sure great at playing characters I dislike intensely. Linda, wanna see the movie again! Now, please.
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Post by Linda on Oct 5, 2005 4:49:11 GMT -5
You are very good at not being jealous! One would never know! Well, as a total newbie, I assume that some things were sort of exaggerated so that newbies could catch up. Like Kaylee's interest in Simon, and Mal's & Inara's interest in each other, were very obvious and played up, but they had to be, to get the point across immediately. I loved all the lines you picked out - and yes, Joss is not casual AT ALL about his word usage, ever. I'd have to rewatch and I'd love to have a transcript (so far, have found none on line) but there are the repeated references to nothing, to belief, also, if my addled mind is remembering correctly, to anger and fear. I loved the bad-guy assasin, and how things ended with him - well, there were many things to like! Hard to list them all. I am sooooo glad that I've successfully concealed my jealousy from you S'cubiefesters! ;D Oh, and I completely agree that Joss needed to make some changes for the impact and emotion. It's only that I know there are some wonderful stories about how everyone got to this point in their various relationships. And that we might never get to hear these stories. Oh, and if canon has actually changed, I would be especially sad if Kaylee's happy place no longer had a nekkid singing Simon in it. I would love to hear your take on the deeper meanings of the movie. If you can't buy the shooting script, I guess you'll just be forced to watch the it again. Poor Spring. Oh, and eetah about the bad guy. Linda, still *not* jealous!
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Post by Linda on Oct 5, 2005 4:53:28 GMT -5
You are very good at not being jealous! One would never know! Well, as a total newbie, I assume that some things were sort of exaggerated so that newbies could catch up. Like Kaylee's interest in Simon, and Mal's & Inara's interest in each other, were very obvious and played up, but they had to be, to get the point across immediately. I loved all the lines you picked out - and yes, Joss is not casual AT ALL about his word usage, ever. I'd have to rewatch and I'd love to have a transcript (so far, have found none on line) but there are the repeated references to nothing, to belief, also, if my addled mind is remembering correctly, to anger and fear. I loved the bad-guy assasin, and how things ended with him - well, there were many things to like! Hard to list them all. I dunno if you'll find a transcript online, Spring, as there is a book out with the shooting script in it. (In other words, Universal is probably going to be on the lookout for anything violating that copyright.) Not sure you'll want to actually buy it but here is a link to it: Serenity Visual CompanionThanks for the info, Rae! Given my current level of obsession, I will be looking for it locally.
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Post by Linda on Oct 5, 2005 5:19:17 GMT -5
An attempt at analysis and discussion (Joss, I'm still mad at you) - It wasn't just that I like Wash, it wasn't just that he reminds me of my husband. What really hurt the most was Zoe. What's going to happen to her? She's lost her heart, really. From remarks made during the series, during the war Zoe was career military; cold, efficient, never smiled. Wash taught her how to be happy, how to laugh, how to love life instead of just getting through it. Zoe wanted to have a child with Wash (which I found sweet and unexpected). Will she be able to live without the love of her life, or will she revert to cold, unfeeling war-time Zoe again, going on but not living? This death, for me, was worse than losing Fred. Fred and Wesley were just starting out; by killing Wash, Joss killed an established marriage, something that was still growing, as marriages do, but was already a real thing. Furthermore, Fred can come back; in fact, there were hints that she will come back. Wash is dead. Wash isn't coming back. Joss had better stay out of my way. I may not be able to control my inner Hellgoddess around him. Anne, reverting to babble As always, assume the IMO P.S. After some reflection, I apparently identify much too much with Zoe, which is odd - I'm a pacifist, and very non-military. It must come from being married to a sweet, silly but exasperating man. No remarks about my pacifism - the smiteage is my way of venting, otherwise there'd be Anne all over the walls one of these days when my brain exploded. That was one of the hardest moments in the film...even the second time. I was gripping poor Shan's arm (she had the unfortunate luck to be sitting next to me) from the moment Serenity tailspinned until Wash's "I'm a leaf on the wind..." saying, "I can't watch it again!" I knew it was going to happen and yet was hoping against hope that he changed it between May and now. I think what happens to Zoe now is going to be very interesting to explore...perhaps that's the next film... Of course, at the risk of being too soap opera-y...I'm kind of hoping she's pregnant. Ummm, I still haven't emotionally processed Wash's death yet. I understand the storytelling reasons behind it. Symbolic, dramatic, etc. But I guess I haven't gotten to acceptance yet, 'cause I got all pissed off at Joss when I realized that the extremely funny Wash definition of "interesting" was a Joss meta-comment on his storytelling choices for the movie. To paraphrase something Joss said in some interview, without the "Oh God, oh God, we're all gonna die" factor, the ending would just be noise. Living in interesting times really is a curse, yeah? Eetah with Anne and Karen about Zoe. And I *really* wish that you are right, Erin, about Zoe carrying Wash's child. The devastating fallout of the events of this movie is rich territory to explore. My guess would be the next movie would focus on Simon and Jayne, since stories centering on their conflict usually end up as an examination of the costs of heroism. And I don't think that Mal has faced up to said costs in regards to the War -- which is why the scene with Jayne mentioning the Battle of Serenity was so charged. As Anne says, though, assume the IMO. Damn Joss -- Is it possible to punch him in the gut in a good way? Turnabout is fair play, right? Linda, sometimes I'll settle for a not-in-a-good-way punch, though.
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Post by Linda on Oct 5, 2005 5:35:20 GMT -5
I wondered if my kids would "get" Zoe and how she showed or didn't show her grief. But my son, Lew, after I told him how I cried after Wash got killed (how hard it is to type that ) - partly because of Zoe's reaction, because the shock of seeing him die so suddenly (it's the timing, always the timing that is so shocking) - I couldn't let go of my grief until I saw Zoe's reaction - said he teared up during Zoe/Mal's conversation here: Mal to Zoe: So what do you think. Will she fly? Zoe: She's been torn up a lot. But she'll fly true. He felt that she would not break down in front of Mal, because he is her captain - it is not expected - they are soldiers. But now she has no one with whom to be herself with. That's what is so devastating. Her soulmate is gone. The one with whom she could cry with. How will she deal with that? Love your examples. I did think about the whole Jasmine arc when I heard what the name of the drug - PAX. Peace. Big theme in the Jossverse. Of course, made me think of: Angelus: It hurts sometimes more than we can bear. If we could live without passion, maybe we'd know some kind of peace. But we would be hollow. Empty rooms, shuttered and dank... Without passion, we'd be truly dead.Thank you for all the quoteage and excellent thoughts, Linda. How hard did I laugh at: Kaylee: It's been over a year since I ain't had anything between my nethers that weren't battery powered. Mal: Oh God, I don't need to hear that! Jayne: I don't mind... Thanks for the kind words. And right there with you and Lew about Zoe and Wash. I've kinda thought about it, but I usually come back to WTF?!? And good points about Jasmine & Angelus. They do seem to represent the two reactions to the Pax, don't they? I *know* I've temporarily fogotten a lot of other funny and interesting things. I will be forced to remember more when I see it again this weekend. Linda, obsessed? moi?
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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on Oct 5, 2005 7:35:21 GMT -5
Before I forget again - the holographic memorials may have been inspired by Max Headroom. I have a vague memory of a cemetary with tombstones topped with TVs, with an endless loop of the dearly departed playing on the screen.
Or I could, you know, just be hallucinating.
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Post by Sara on Oct 5, 2005 11:24:17 GMT -5
You are very good at not being jealous! One would never know! Well, as a total newbie, I assume that some things were sort of exaggerated so that newbies could catch up. Like Kaylee's interest in Simon, and Mal's & Inara's interest in each other, were very obvious and played up, but they had to be, to get the point across immediately. I loved all the lines you picked out - and yes, Joss is not casual AT ALL about his word usage, ever. I'd have to rewatch and I'd love to have a transcript (so far, have found none on line) but there are the repeated references to nothing, to belief, also, if my addled mind is remembering correctly, to anger and fear. I loved the bad-guy assasin, and how things ended with him - well, there were many things to like! Hard to list them all. I dunno if you'll find a transcript online, Spring, as there is a book out with the shooting script in it. (In other words, Universal is probably going to be on the lookout for anything violating that copyright.) Not sure you'll want to actually buy it but here is a link to it: www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1845760824/qid=1128263065/sr=8-2/ref=pd_bbs_2/102-1948870-3449739?v=glance&s=books&n=507846I, uh, bought the book for myself. *sheepish grin* So if anyone needs clarification on a specific quote, let me know.
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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on Oct 5, 2005 11:26:44 GMT -5
Orson Scott Card's review of the BDM, here. I'm not entirely sure, but I get the impression he rather enjoyed it. If this should go someplace else, O Wise Technopagans, please copy or move it.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Oct 5, 2005 17:09:48 GMT -5
So my mom is worried about the effect that Wash's death will have on the chemistry of the ensemble. I tried to explain to her that Joss has set precedent for suddenly and unexpectedly killing off major characters, but she still worries. LOL.
More after we see the BDM...
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