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Post by Len on Nov 21, 2003 11:47:19 GMT -5
But the problem is that Faith only has sex to enjoy her body. She doesn't make a connection to any of the numerous men she boinks. She might as well be an animal in heat for all the caring or emotion she puts into the sex act. And for her that's all it is, an act. No love. No making love. I don't find that an admirable quality at all. It just makes me feel sorry for her. Men and women who jump from partner don't accomplish anything but the spreading of STD's. Don't get me wrong, it's a free country and people can do whatever. I just think it's kind of sad. That's why I was ONLY advocating the "enjoyment of body" aspect of Faith - not the "use sex without love as an empty way to connect to people." There's absolutely nothing wrong with enjoying your body. It's when you use that as a SUBSTITUTE for REAL connections (as Faith definitely appears to have done in the past) that you get in trouble.
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Post by Karen on Nov 21, 2003 11:47:25 GMT -5
The roomful of pee comment coming from someone who uses Gunn as their avatar -- ironic much? Nan noticed it first when I made a comment about wanting to be a "pea" in makd's pod while having Gunn as my face (totally unintentional - I wish I was that good). So - I thought I'd give a nod to her observation (totally intentional this time).
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Post by betsyAB on Nov 21, 2003 11:47:49 GMT -5
What? Why? What? What happened? Please tell. Kerrie is...needed...missed. What happened? (okay, repititious, yes, but really knocked for a loop, here.) What? Kerrie can't leave! We need that Down Under perspective and I need my cool-people-from-other-countries fix!! This cannot happen. Please come back, Kerrie. Don't leave me with all these Americans! (Ok. I know I'm from Detroit, but help me out here.) You're really smart and you post interesting and thoughtful ideas. If you leave, then everyone's stuck with me, and I can't come up with anything new or interesting and the Scubie board will surely suffer. So please don't go.
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Post by S'ewing S'cubie on Nov 21, 2003 11:49:13 GMT -5
hm. That's how I pronounce it! I pronounced it to rhyme with "naked." Is that wrong?
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Post by betsyAB on Nov 21, 2003 11:49:58 GMT -5
That's why I was ONLY advocating the "enjoyment of body" aspect of Faith - not the "use sex without love as an empty way to connect to people." There's absolutely nothing wrong with enjoying your body. It's when you use that as a SUBSTITUTE for REAL connections (as Faith definitely appears to have done in the past) that you get in trouble. Enjoying your body how...? Could it involve James, honey and some saran wrap? Because I could get behind that!
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Post by Karen on Nov 21, 2003 11:50:12 GMT -5
hmm. a spoiler on the avatars. well, isn't that just...neat! makd - check you IM's please!
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Post by RAKSHA on Nov 21, 2003 11:50:45 GMT -5
Interesting thoughts, SandyS. You asked me in the last thread about Angel mirroring the bad-guy and well, Angel kinda WAS the bad guy in this episode (Angelus, I mean) and definitely, like Angelus, Angel was attempting, at first, to be "the one on top" just by virtue of the fact that HE was Angel, and Spike was . . . well, Spike. Angel tried to repeat the same pattern that had worked when Spike saw Dru as his "destiny." He just proceeded on the theory that HE was Angel, he was "the father," he was the alpha-male, and it (Dru, the cup) was rightfully his. But like all alpha males, the time comes when challengers rise and power must be shared and Angel definitely seemed to be facing the idea that such a time is beginning for him. It was very father/son - that moment when Dad can no longer be the one in charge, the first in line, the one who obviously sits at the head of the table, the stronger one, etc, just by virtue of being Dad. Hmm. Interesting. I had thought that Angel's first challenge for the kingship would come from Gunn, who is much stronger and more centered than he was last year. Of course, I have the impression that Gunn has lost some of his physical edge since so much of his time is now spent doing non-physical things.
I see Spike's victory not as a challenge to Angel's total kingship over W&H and the Fang Gang - frankly, Spike would have no use for the CEOship of W&H - but as a challenge to Angel/Angelus' long tyranny over Spike as a person. As you said, it's very much a father-son situation and parallels the Roger/Wesley situation. Both Angelus and Angel wanted total pre-eminence over Spike; Angelus in terms of sexual rights to the women in their pack, Angel in terms of who gets to even think that Buffy loved him and in the personal relationship between himself and Spike.
It's intriguing that Angelus was a heckuva lot more welcoming to the newly vamped William than Angel was to the recently souled and Championed William.
Spike had just about had enough of Angel's constant dismissals and denials. Angel behaved as if Spike was an irritating mosquito rather than a vampire he had personally trained, and liked and encouraged and who had now followed in his footsteps to souled heroism. I believe that Spike's rather childish haunting and snarking behavior towards Angel was exacerbated by Angel's initial would-be negation of his 'grandchild' and subsequent relegation of Spike to 'shut up, Spike' and 'Get out, Spike' status most of the time. Spike's gripes and complaints and insistance on sitting in Angel's chair or in Angel's car's front passenger seat has been a cover for Spike's inner desperate voice that's been crying 'SEE ME, TALK TO ME, TELL ME I STILL MATTER'. Spike's behavior towards Wesley and Fred and Gunn has been far less childish than his behavior with Angel.
The defiance and rage that fueled Spike's victory over Angel came as much from Spike's desire for Angelus/Angel's validation as it did over Angelus/Angel's relationship with the women Spike loved. The battle in DESTINY did much to clear the air between our Souled Vamp Heroes.
I think Spike will still be inclined to snark at Grandpa, and Angel will still feel that Captain Peroxide is a pain in the behind. But I think there will be less venom and pain behind their dialogue.
I wish I could tell Angel personally that just because Spike may have wanted the Shanshu more than Angel did doesn't mean that Spike WILL get it or that Angel won't. It doesn't say anywhere that the Shanshu will be awarded like a sports trophy.
I wish I could tell Spike personally that he needs to get some kind of life that doesn't revolve around one-upping Angel or pursuing women that Angel hadn't lusted after/loved first or prophecies that had not been in Angel's heart first....
[glow=red,2,300]GAIL [/glow]
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Post by DaveCrenshaw on Nov 21, 2003 11:52:22 GMT -5
Nan noticed it first when I made a comment about wanting to be a "pea" in makd's pod while having Gunn as my face (totally unintentional - I wish I was that good). So - I thought I'd give a nod to her observation (totally intentional this time). I didn't read Nan's comment. I admit it, when I take an evening off to come back to 30 new pages across two sections, I don't go back and re-read. Thank goodness we have that search thingamabobby. Speaking of Gunn and pee, I have to admit, Gunn's "God, I hope so" when Angel asked him if Lorne told him to pee everywhere, still gives me a chuckle when I think of it. For me, it's got to be one of the funniest lines uttered on either show -- I think it has something to do with the way J. August Richards says it, and the look on his face. It was freaking hilarious. In his spoiler report, Hercules listed it as one of the best parts of the episode to him, as well.
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Post by DaveCrenshaw on Nov 21, 2003 11:53:07 GMT -5
Enjoying your body how...? Could it involve James, honey and some saran wrap? Because I could get behind that! How about a feather boa and the theme to "A Summer Place"?
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Post by DaveCrenshaw on Nov 21, 2003 13:17:08 GMT -5
Moloch seems to be active. Sorry I was at lunch and not aware of it until now. I'll start part 73 forthwith.
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Post by DaveCrenshaw on Nov 21, 2003 13:20:22 GMT -5
Part 73 is now open for business. Hopefully it will be a while before certain demons realize the party has moved.
Move along people. There's nothing more to read here.
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