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Post by Matthew on Feb 10, 2005 4:21:43 GMT -5
I'm wondering what Ethan and his wacky gang did to the baby that Claire doesn't remember. I'd say they made it a mutant, but we all know it was gonna be one anyway. "Evil!" not neccesarily "MUTANT Evil!" I don't think she kept it hidden: Sawyer knows her type, and knows from the way she disarmed him that she knows guns: Why he suggested her, I think. Jack seemed to know she had the knowledge, what with the confessing some to him, and the knowing the guns in the case..... and he was limiting the party to those who knew how to use them: by default, Locke and Sayid would assume she was familiar, if Jack was okay with it without question. What I want to know is, where from and how much does Jack know about guns? And if it was already cocked, all Charlie would have had to have done was pull the trigger: Likely the safety was already off.
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Post by Matthew on Feb 10, 2005 4:34:47 GMT -5
Random, random... So Jack got to win the fight this time. Good for his ego, I suppose...though I liked it better when he lost. Not every protagonist has to be a tough guy. Plus...Jack? I think the first five unanswered punches were enough. Disagreeing, here: not only allowing Jack to take his testicles back from when Ethan walked off with them in the woods before, but he was one tough little sonuvabitch. I'd have kept hitting and kicking him, too, until my mates had him well well covered: and I sure as hell would not have stood as close to him as Sawyer was doing, holding the gun on him. If Jack had stopped after the first few unanswered punch, there's the chance that Ethan could have been using it to lull him into a false sense of mastery over the situation. Guess he wasn't, but that guy was TOUGH. Strong. Sociopathic. Best to keep him occupied till you could restrain him. Also? Jack got some leader-payback on the guy for him having killed one of Jack's tribe. Maybe not right, but human. And counts as a weakness, too.. I think I agree partially with Yola above: keeping him a prisoner would have been extremely dangerous: But I think that he needed to die, and I doubt any of them would have been able to go through with the torture that would have proven neccesary to get the information they wanted. Alive, he was too much of a threat to them all: particularly if he has confederates. I also think Rae's right: there's gonna be hell to pay, particularly if he was Alex... CFL Hell... But I am getting the feeling that he... wasn't Alex. Dunno why.... 'cept that he died too quickly. Particularly after Charlie's dismissal of him as "THE bad guy(Emphasis mine)". Maybe she got him in the eye with that scratch, or knocked him silly with a blunt object, or somethig. She's a pretty brave girl. Edit as I caught up: And I'm glad I'm not the only one that sees comprehension in Jin's looks. I'm glad Patti and I aren't the only ones who see comprehension in Jin's looks. ;D And Linda? Hawaii still pretty?
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Post by Jan on Feb 10, 2005 5:54:23 GMT -5
Hurley's backstory is coming in March, according to TV Guide. Yeah, I'm hot for that, too.
Loved his graveyard speech, esp. the "I don't know how to end this. Er. Amen." It seems a little surprizing that of 40-plus people there isn't a single one with religion and a familiarity with funerals--wait a minute, Anne would fit the bill. But then we wouldn't have Hurley doing it, which would be a loss.
Charlie acted completely in line with his disease. Whether or not he was right about not getting info from Ethan, whether or not Ethan would have been a hazard as a prisoner, most addicts and alcoholics would have done whatever they wanted (including shooting someone) and felt entirely justified in doing so. They are also often as charming as Charlie was in the bar. I think Charlie's wanting to take care of someone is really wanting to shore up his ego by being needed. And when people need you they can't leave you.
Maybe I'm clutching at straws of hope that the writers understand the nature of addicts, which is pretty silly in such a fantasy world, I guess. And I do love Charlie. But then I'm a recovering codependent.
And Boone. Dude. Your daddy musta been a pip.
Overall, not a satisfying episode. Tho I find Ethan's killing so soon in the arc to perhaps signify greater satisfaction to come.
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Post by Linda on Feb 10, 2005 7:14:11 GMT -5
Hellooo lovely S'cubies! I haven't caught up with the main thread, but I just thought I'd check out tonight's Lost thread. Eetah with everything in Spring's post. Sorry Lola, I can't see your Hurley = puppetmaster theory. How 'bout this for an alternate theory: Maybe they're saving Hurley's backstory for Drew Goddard to write. I would be extremely happy to wait for that. Does anybody know which story Drew got? (Tonight's was by Damon Lindelof, the co-creator.) Agree with Patti's disappointment that Ethan is dead. I do think it was demonstrating the important development that Charley was unbalanced, though. And agree with Rae that there will probably be serious consequences stemming from Ethan's death. Agree with Rob about Jack's extra punches. (IIRC, there were some extra kicks, too.) Apparently Charley wasn't the only one with Ethan issues. Agree with Rachael about the amnesia. Oh, and to go along with the amnesia cliché was the red-shirt-y death of Steve Scott. Scott Steve is doomed. And Matthew, I *like* your stream-of-consciousness posts. Reminds me of becca's, though with a bit less emphasis on color & clothes (except when you're describing Victoria's Secret commercials, of course… ;D) Oh, and especial Eetah! on your con men demographic and Pandora's suitcase comments. Ooh! Thanks, Winter, for the addict's behavior insight. Agree about Charley's self-esteem problem, although I think he does have genuine chemistry with and feelings for Claire. So, just a couple of other random thoughts: The episode did *not* begin with an eye, unless you count sleeping Charley's closed eye. I think they have strengthened the contrast / parallels between Charley and Boone: they both had caretaking urges. Except Boone's unbalanced caretaking phase was pre-island. Charley's is on-island. Also, Charley's incompetence phase was pre-island and Boone's is on-island. Boone has made himself into Locke's acolyte. Charley has made himself into a killer. (Aw Charley. Why'd you go and do that?) Agree with you guys that Jin seems to understand more than he lets on. It's perfectly logical for him to have learned English to help him in the course of his past business dealings. Dunno why he would conceal it from Sun, though. Jack showed Sawyer respect by asking for his help. Huh. (Though if we're to believe next week's preview, looks like that step forward gets violently erased next episode. Hope not.) Sawyer shows his Kate-liking tendencies by bringing out his gun. For her to hold on to. ;D Claire runs pretty good for a (as Matthew says) 97-months pregnant woman. Any significance to the rain? Which always seems to appear when Jack's fighting Ethan? Linda, and yes, Matthew, Hawaii still pretty.
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Post by Linda on Feb 10, 2005 7:18:22 GMT -5
Hi again:
This week's list: Known/suspected killers
On-island: Charlie killed Ethan. Jack & Sawyer killed the Marshall. (Mercy.) Crazy French Lady said she killed her companions.
Off island: Sayid killed his commanding officer. And he would have shot the Crazy French Lady in self-defense. Kate said she killed the man she loved. (And actually shot & injured her co-robbers.) Jack feels responsible for his father's death. Jin possibly killed someone for Sun's father.
Locke may be scary, but he's doesn't have a human death on his hands at this point. That we know of.
As always, feel free to point out inaccuracies or disagreements.
Linda, They're up, they're down. They're good, they're bad. They're more fun than a barrel of dead monkeys…oops, wrong show.
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Post by Linda on Feb 10, 2005 7:22:04 GMT -5
FYI: Real life stuff, so feel free to skip.
A couple of weeks ago, there was a bit of a stir here in Hawaii when a newspaper reported that the producers of Lost were talking about moving the production back to the mainland.
This is very possible, as Hawaii is *expensive* when you factor in cost of living, shipping, taxes, etc.
However, there was a specific reason that the story broke last month: the State Legislature began their 2005 session and one of the items up for consideration was a change in the tax laws, which would cut off a significant tax credit for productions filmed in Hawaii. People wanted to drum up public opposition to the proposed change.
It has probably worked, although Hawaii still remains expensive even with the tax credits.
Personally, I would be sad if they moved from Hawaii. But for the record, I would rather the show go on somewhere else than have it be cancelled due to cash hemorrhaging or Network balking.
Linda, Hawaii still pretty, though, dammit
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Post by Pixi on Feb 10, 2005 8:32:32 GMT -5
So gee - where is you all everybody? Here are my impressions. There’s not much here, but the ep didn’t excite me much: Claire is still preggers and suffering from amnesia, it seems. Good God. If she doesn’t have that baby soon, she’s gonna explode! OK. Locke – he looks quite a lot like my bald, blue-eyed ex, plus he said “fell swoop,” which my ex used to say all the time, only he’d say “swell foop” at least half the time, and not even know he had done it. That was something I liked about him, actually, his frequent and unconscious spoonerisms. WHY, WHY, WHY are we getting more Charlie backstory when we haven’t seen any Hurley backstory yet? Am I imagining this, or is this the most boring ep we’ve ever had? I like the doggie. I like Sayid. Oh – Scott & Steve are down to just Steve. Very sad. Harley as the Island chaplain of sorts. I like it. Why wouldn’t they give a gun to Kate? There ya go. My brain is in a bit of a stupor; the ep isn’t engaging me; it’s hard to think of anything to write. Charley is a killer, now? I don’t really like the motivation being provided for such a drastic act. For such a drastic change. It wasn’t even “heat of the moment.” I wanted Charley to be more sweet and innocent. But I will adjust. Are we not going to get Hurley backstory? No - you are not imagining this - it is the most boring episode. I was very disappointed. Amnesia - are you kidding me? How very cliche of them. I want to know more about the island mystery. Charlie's backstory part 2 was boring - absolutely nothing in this episode to get excited about. And next week looks like love triangle time - they seriously need to address island issues. I am sorry to see Scott go. See ya Scott.
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Post by Pixi on Feb 10, 2005 8:35:28 GMT -5
Hellooo lovely S'cubies! I haven't caught up with the main thread, but I just thought I'd check out tonight's Lost thread. Eetah with everything in Spring's post. Sorry Lola, I can't see your Hurley = puppetmaster theory. How 'bout this for an alternate theory: Maybe they're saving Hurley's backstory for Drew Goddard to write. I would be extremely happy to wait for that. Does anybody know which story Drew got? (Tonight's was by Damon Lindelof, the co-creator.) Agree with Patti's disappointment that Ethan is dead. I do think it was demonstrating the important development that Charley was unbalanced, though. And agree with Rae that there will probably be serious consequences stemming from Ethan's death. Agree with Rob about Jack's extra punches. (IIRC, there were some extra kicks, too.) Apparently Charley wasn't the only one with Ethan issues. Agree with Rachael about the amnesia. Oh, and to go along with the amnesia cliché was the red-shirt-y death of Steve Scott. Scott Steve is doomed. And Matthew, I *like* your stream-of-consciousness posts. Reminds me of becca's, though with a bit less emphasis on color & clothes (except when you're describing Victoria's Secret commercials, of course… ;D) Oh, and especial Eetah! on your con men demographic and Pandora's suitcase comments. Ooh! Thanks, Winter, for the addict's behavior insight. Agree about Charley's self-esteem problem, although I think he does have genuine chemistry with and feelings for Claire. So, just a couple of other random thoughts: The episode did *not* begin with an eye, unless you count sleeping Charley's closed eye. I think they have strengthened the contrast / parallels between Charley and Boone: they both had caretaking urges. Except Boone's unbalanced caretaking phase was pre-island. Charley's is on-island. Also, Charley's incompetence phase was pre-island and Boone's is on-island. Boone has made himself into Locke's acolyte. Charley has made himself into a killer. (Aw Charley. Why'd you go and do that?) Agree with you guys that Jin seems to understand more than he lets on. It's perfectly logical for him to have learned English to help him in the course of his past business dealings. Dunno why he would conceal it from Sun, though. Jack showed Sawyer respect by asking for his help. Huh. (Though if we're to believe next week's preview, looks like that step forward gets violently erased next episode. Hope not.) Sawyer shows his Kate-liking tendencies by bringing out his gun. For her to hold on to. ;D Claire runs pretty good for a (as Matthew says) 97-months pregnant woman. Any significance to the rain? Which always seems to appear when Jack's fighting Ethan? Linda, and yes, Matthew, Hawaii still pretty. Hee, hee - 97 months pregnant. Just have that baby already. I agree about the rain thing. I was watching it going - hey haven't we already done this scene. Jack fights Eathan in the rain? So, so predictable and boring. Hee hee on the Sawyer shows Kate his gun. Hee, hee.
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Post by Pixi on Feb 10, 2005 8:37:31 GMT -5
Disagreeing, here: not only allowing Jack to take his testicles back from when Ethan walked off with them in the woods before, but he was one tough little sonuvabitch. I'd have kept hitting and kicking him, too, until my mates had him well well covered: and I sure as hell would not have stood as close to him as Sawyer was doing, holding the gun on him. If Jack had stopped after the first few unanswered punch, there's the chance that Ethan could have been using it to lull him into a false sense of mastery over the situation. Guess he wasn't, but that guy was TOUGH. Strong. Sociopathic. Best to keep him occupied till you could restrain him. Also? Jack got some leader-payback on the guy for him having killed one of Jack's tribe. Maybe not right, but human. And counts as a weakness, too.. I think I agree partially with Yola above: keeping him a prisoner would have been extremely dangerous: But I think that he needed to die, and I doubt any of them would have been able to go through with the torture that would have proven neccesary to get the information they wanted. Alive, he was too much of a threat to them all: particularly if he has confederates. I also think Rae's right: there's gonna be hell to pay, particularly if he was Alex... CFL Hell... But I am getting the feeling that he... wasn't Alex. Dunno why.... 'cept that he died too quickly. Particularly after Charlie's dismissal of him as "THE bad guy(Emphasis mine)". Maybe she got him in the eye with that scratch, or knocked him silly with a blunt object, or somethig. She's a pretty brave girl. Edit as I caught up: And I'm glad I'm not the only one that sees comprehension in Jin's looks. I'm glad Patti and I aren't the only ones who see comprehension in Jin's looks. ;D And Linda? Hawaii still pretty? ] Its my guess that Claire somehow scratched, banged, something to Eathan to get away. I doubt that Eathan is Alex also.
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Post by Nickim on Feb 10, 2005 8:40:51 GMT -5
My random thoughts:
Claire asked a very good question when she said, "Who are you people?" So far, only Jack is who he has appeared to be, all of the others, even Charlie, are conning someone.
Kate was conning the bank robber boyfriend and she conned the marshall. Sawyer was conning women on a regular basis. Locke was conning himself about his telephone "girlfriend" and he's conning all of them about his wilderness abilities. Sun is conning Jin about speaking English, and he may be conning her about the same thing. Also, did Jin con Sun when he showed her the flower at the airport? Did Sun just con herself when she decided to stay with him? Claire and Michael were conned by their partners. Was Claire conned by the pyschic into getting on the plane? Shannon conned Boone into "rescuing" her, and he let her get away with it. Sayid conned his military superiors into thinking he was suited for a job that required him to torture other people. Did Nadja--a more Arabic spelling--con him into helping her escape?
And, now, even our sweet, innocent Charlie turns out to be a con man. He'll romance a girl who his friend calls a "moose" so he can steal something from her and buy drugs. Later, he cons himself into thinking that he's doing it all so he can take care of her. Charlie's been shown to be very weak and easily swayed. His brother wants to keep the band going, so Charlie agrees. His brother uses drugs, so he does too. Charlie has no identity or self-esteem without "Driveshaft." Getting high or drunk are probably the ultimate way to con oneself. People can do "anything" when they're high, or so they think, but getting high and trying to fly just means you're going to end up badly hurt or dead. Lying and cheating someone so you can "take care of them" means they'll end up badly hurt.
I want to believe that Charlie's a sweet kid who "lost" his way, but I'm not sure anymore. Did he kill Ethan to protect Claire or to protect himself somehow? Is there something Ethan could have told them that Charlie didn't want known? I want some answers!!!
That last smile on Locke's face really creeped me out. When Locke said he hoped Ethan wasn't around, it made me wonder if they were working together.
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Post by Lola m on Feb 10, 2005 8:45:05 GMT -5
Random, random... So Jack got to win the fight this time. Good for his ego, I suppose...though I liked it better when he lost. Not every protagonist has to be a tough guy. Plus...Jack? I think the first five unanswered punches were enough. Well, the man has issues. It's like he's balanced on this edge - wanting to go completely over it, but always stepping forward and back, forward and back. Yep. Sayid was definitely thinking "this is a guy who'll fall asleep while on watch". I think Locke was trying to boost his self-confidence. But it's not his confidence that needs boosting, it's his actual skill level. She's thinking that it is a good strategic move to have some secret weapons, some special talents that she keeps to herself. But I think that she is wrong. At this point on the island, it's "come together as a group or die" time. Just like they finally agreed that everyone needs to know about Ethan's threat. (Well, everyone but Claire, according to Charlie. ) I dunno. I get this vibe that somehow it'll turn out to be important, or at least have more of a point, as we go along. **nods, nods, nods!!** I'm thinking sympathetic helper in Ethan's group. 'Cuz I think there's more than just him there. Another reason why, while I sympathize with Charlie's reaction, they really did need to keep Ethan alive. Hurley!!! **chants, "need Hurley backstory, need Hurley backstory"** Lola
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Post by Nickim on Feb 10, 2005 8:50:44 GMT -5
So, I'm gonna go through this in my normal self-absorbed way, and plonk down every insanely insignificant thought while I do so, yet again. If this is getting on anyone's nerves, or anything, just let a TP know, and have them ask me to tighten it up a bit. ;D No opening eyeball sequence, though we see Charlie's eyes first.. Charlie Flashback? Hey, she's still preggers!! Wow! With a basketball, looks like. That screaming was not the reaction I was expecting... Oh, crap. Amnesia. Why does it always have to be amnesia? </Henry Jones Jr.> (Parenthetical voyage to the Happy Place during the adverts...) Aaaah... Goofily grinning Victoria's Secret models in various states of undress. I like it when they advertise this sale. Act the oncet: Man, it's gotta suck to find out that you were in the same plane crash twice. Time check... nearly a month? Huh. Hey, Charlie! Give her her diary!! I think Jin suspects his wife slings the lingo..... I think Jin does, too, actually... Locke has a VERY creepy sardonic grin. "I sure hope not" Locke's face when he says that.. so.... creepy and completely exressionless. He's either not worried about Ethan at all, or he's got plans that he needs Ethan for. I thought the exact same thing. Again, brainshare. I'm glad to see someone else thought this episode had a lot of undercurrents going on.
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Post by Nickim on Feb 10, 2005 8:53:20 GMT -5
And it's the bloody dog. ;D Or not. who is it? Some random castaway? Charlie looks... resolved. Hwo the hell did Locke know the guy came in from the water? Because it's what he would do? Wow.. he didn't just kill him, he... enjoyed doing it. That guy was not gonna be an intelligence source: and risky to do it right there on the beach. Systematic torture to frighten. Killed him somewhere else, and made sure the body would wash ashore. Locke's plan?
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Post by Lola m on Feb 10, 2005 8:53:24 GMT -5
So, I'm gonna go through this in my normal self-absorbed way, and plonk down every insanely insignificant thought while I do so, yet again. I'm enjoying these "stream of consciousness" posts that you and Spring are doing. Taking a walk into the mind that is . . . Matthew! ;D I didn't notice that! ;D I'm starting to join everyone who thinks Jin speaks or at least understands English to some extent. Huh. Hadn't thought about that. Of course, now that makes it even worse that they just shot him. We'll have to see what his helper(s) do now. **bounce, bounce** I thought that too! Everyone is conning someone else in some way!! I know! I mean, I am a complete survival moron who wouldn't last 2 days in the jungle, and even I knew you should drop to the ground when you hear that sound. Or at least crouch a little. I thought that couldn't be coincidental. Ethan was strong. **shiver** Yes. Ethan was just plain scary! Lola
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Post by Nickim on Feb 10, 2005 8:58:03 GMT -5
Disagreeing, here: not only allowing Jack to take his testicles back from when Ethan walked off with them in the woods before, but he was one tough little sonuvabitch. I'd have kept hitting and kicking him, too, until my mates had him well well covered: and I sure as hell would not have stood as close to him as Sawyer was doing, holding the gun on him. If Jack had stopped after the first few unanswered punch, there's the chance that Ethan could have been using it to lull him into a false sense of mastery over the situation. Guess he wasn't, but that guy was TOUGH. Strong. Sociopathic. Best to keep him occupied till you could restrain him. Also? Jack got some leader-payback on the guy for him having killed one of Jack's tribe. Maybe not right, but human. And counts as a weakness, too.. I think I agree partially with Yola above: keeping him a prisoner would have been extremely dangerous: But I think that he needed to die, and I doubt any of them would have been able to go through with the torture that would have proven neccesary to get the information they wanted. Alive, he was too much of a threat to them all: particularly if he has confederates. Even with torture, there's no way to be sure any info he gave them was true.
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