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Post by Karen on Mar 14, 2005 15:14:08 GMT -5
Excellent job on your review, Rachael!
I so agree with you on this bit about Sun keeping her knowledge of English from Jin (and most everyone else).
For her part, Sun kept the fact that she speaks English from almost everyone, and I see this as a huge betrayal of Jin...because Jin doesn’t speak English (in my opinion, the scene on the beach where we hear the other castaways speaking in nothing but gibberish was meant to establish this fact - your mileage may vary), and no one else speaks Korean - meaning he is truly an island unto himself, isolated from the others. Sun had the capability to be a bridge, and instead chose to leave the man she loved truly alone. At last, when she finally chooses to tell him that she was planning on leaving him, she does so in English. A language she knows he can’t understand. For whatever reason, she chooses to keep him in the dark. Again.
Even though at the time she said she did it out of 'love' and 'didn't want to hurt' Jin, I also saw it as a huge injustice to him and everyone else to keep quiet. But now I can understand why she kept quiet - because they had already 'quit talking to each other'.
And as to why she is continuing to keep him in the dark - I think she still holds out hope that they will get back together - although, keeping him in the dark is not the way to do it.
Again - nice job!
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Post by Rachael on Mar 14, 2005 18:02:11 GMT -5
Excellent job on your review, Rachael! I so agree with you on this bit about Sun keeping her knowledge of English from Jin (and most everyone else). For her part, Sun kept the fact that she speaks English from almost everyone, and I see this as a huge betrayal of Jin...because Jin doesn’t speak English (in my opinion, the scene on the beach where we hear the other castaways speaking in nothing but gibberish was meant to establish this fact - your mileage may vary), and no one else speaks Korean - meaning he is truly an island unto himself, isolated from the others. Sun had the capability to be a bridge, and instead chose to leave the man she loved truly alone. At last, when she finally chooses to tell him that she was planning on leaving him, she does so in English. A language she knows he can’t understand. For whatever reason, she chooses to keep him in the dark. Again.Even though at the time she said she did it out of 'love' and 'didn't want to hurt' Jin, I also saw it as a huge injustice to him and everyone else to keep quiet. But now I can understand why she kept quiet - because they had already 'quit talking to each other'. And as to why she is continuing to keep him in the dark - I think she still holds out hope that they will get back together - although, keeping him in the dark is not the way to do it. Again - nice job! Thanks, Karen! And, yeah - good point - Sun kept silent about speaking English not out of spite, or hurt, but out of habit. She doesn't tell Jin anything, nor he her. But I feel that, in this case, it bespeaks a deeper disregard for his feelings, and one that will certainly have to be overcome if they're ever to work anything out. I considered speculating on their reconciliation, in the long term, but found that I had no idea whether it's even possible, given the complete lack of communication in their relationship. It'll be a long road. 'Course, what else do they have to do?
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Post by Patti - S'cubie Cutie on Mar 14, 2005 23:12:30 GMT -5
Rachael, thank you! You did a really good job! And I'm sure that opinion wasn't swayed by the fact that I really agree with what you said almost 100 percent! I'm dittoing Karen's ditto of your words about the injustice - and I'd go so far as to call it cruelty -of not letting Jin know she speaks English - not rescuing him from the island of isolation in all these weeks.
You really pulled the important things together, and while reading your review, I was happy to think back about my own - it was all about the importance of really 'seeing', and this one about the importance of really speaking (the truth). And if I stretch it a little further, 'Numbers' was about importance of what you 'hear'.
The only thing I disagreed with you about is that I don't like Sayid and Shannon together - and it's not ALL jealousy...
not completely.
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Post by Rachael on Mar 14, 2005 23:36:46 GMT -5
Rachael, thank you! You did a really good job! And I'm sure that opinion wasn't swayed by the fact that I really agree with what you said almost 100 percent! I'm dittoing Karen's ditto of your words about the injustice - and I'd go so far as to call it cruelty -of not letting Jin know she speaks English - not rescuing him from the island of isolation in all these weeks. You really pulled the important things together, and while reading your review, I was happy to think back about my own - it was all about the importance of really 'seeing', and this one about the importance of really speaking (the truth). And if I stretch it a little further, 'Numbers' was about importance of what you 'hear'. The only thing I disagreed with you about is that I don't like Sayid and Shannon together - and it's not ALL jealousy... not completely. You're welcome, and I'm glad you liked it.
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Post by Riff on Mar 16, 2005 12:51:32 GMT -5
This is great review! I like the way it goes straight to the central theme and draws everything out.
It’s an interesting question, isn’t it? Are the Jin and Sun we see in the early, idyllic part of their relationship false personas, or are they true selves that are then obscured by the events that befall them?
I suppose it’s possible that the kind of secrecy Jin has is a culturally normal thing between husband and wife in Korean society. However, if that is the case, Jin behaved atypically toward Sun before the problems began – one has the impression that he mostly treated her as an equal. As you point out, though, he has always kept the existence of his father from her.
Who are Jin and Sun? Lost is built around that sort of issue.
Eetah on the mirroring of Sun and Jin’s violent mercy. Perhaps a sign they are more alike than either of them believe at the moment?
I like how you have emphasised a connection between the characters’ and the viewers’ misunderstandings. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if there are many more surprises to come about the survivors on that island.
I was one of those bitten. ;D I assumed it was Locke who’d burnt the boat, almost immediately. There was something about his face as he looked at the fire, and, as you note, it would be absolutely in keeping with the “tough love” he has been known to show.
And you’re right. This throws into sharp relief the fact that the show is not one that allows us to make quick judgements. Almost certainly, there are some other plot and character arcs (that we believe we know and understand) which will follow this theme.
Brilliant! The snap judgements the characters make have to be entrenched by poor communication. I hadn’t put that together.
I suppose Sun still feels love for Jin, but she in part thinks of him as a monster, or, at least, dangerous. Perhaps she simply couldn’t face the inevitable questions of how she knew English, why she’d learnt it, and why he hadn’t known. But, yes, the way she has left Jin effectively isolated is callous.
*laughs* I love Locke. I think it’s that smile he has that simultaneously says, “I’m full of fun and good feelings and am your saviour;” and “I’m actually the Prince of Darkness.”
If Locke is really trying to drive some sort of wedge between Michael and Walt to gain control over the boy (not that you implied that), he’s playing a very long and subtle game with a great many double bluffs.
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Post by Lola m on Mar 16, 2005 13:36:57 GMT -5
Excellent review, Rachael! You really got to the heart of the episode – from the opening song quote to the analysis itself.
We’ve seen examples of misunderstandings and missed communication in many episodes, but they took, as you point out, “center stage” in this one. I am very impressed that the writers chose to show us the story of Sun and Jin in two episodes – two sides of the same story, each filling in the holes of the other. It really helps us to put ourselves in each of their shoes, while also having the larger picture, seeing the overview that they keep missing.
I liked your analogy of a transmitted message –
Particularly because it ties in so well with the next episode we got – Hurley and the transmitted numbers. A warning to us, perhaps, that we should be a bit suspicious as to what might have been lost in that message as well.
Excellent job on summarizing the back story of Jin and Sun. I often find it difficult to sum up Lost episodes, the few times I’ve tried to explain one to someone in conversation. We get so much information in any given episode – flashbacks, what is happening on the island, how they affect and relate, etc. And you really needed to address, to some extent, the happenings of two episodes, since Sun’s episode was the companion piece to “. . . In Translation”. We can’t really talk about one without the other. It is necessary to see both sides to realize that the communication problems run both ways. To quote you again:
Also glad that you talked about how the flashback gives us clues to, and is reflected in, events on the island. Not just between Jin and Sun, but all the survivors, particularly Michael. Michael often seems to be introduced as an element of change or revelation in the relationship between Sun and Jin. I liked the other examples you mention, Shannon and Sayid – the mob scene on the beach – Walt and Locke and “who set the fire”. And most importantly, ourselves and our own assumptions.
Another thing to keep in mind as the season continues, eh?
Thanks for a great review, Rachael!
Lola
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Post by SpringSummers on Mar 16, 2005 15:52:50 GMT -5
Very nice work, Rachael.
Loved your handling of the Jin & Sun relationship - and the strong component "missed communication" plays in how it all turns out. ("She chooses to keep him in the dark. Again." Nice!).
I agree completely that Jin doesn't speak English, and also agree on the excellence of Daniel Dae Kim's acting. He's the sort of actor who is so good he makes it look easy. But you know it's not.
Thanks for your effort on this Rachael. I enjoyed the result!
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Jun 1, 2006 10:19:48 GMT -5
So this is Sun's father. And his watch.
Making a deal with the devil
Sun, Wowsers!
So this is just after the end of the last episode when Charlie and Claire went walking.
Here they go again, hee.
Michael, overstepped your bounds a little, no?
Wow, Sun looks so pretty.
Jin's father is dead.
flower as a promise
the honeymoon we've always dreamed of. Aside from the polar bears and others and such.
so Jin knows golf, too.
Yeah, Hurley the mediator
You want to be an outsider, it's your business
Aw, cute flirting. But I hope that Sayid is more to Shannon than the other guys were
Michael is from New York
The raft is on fire! Whodunnit?
Locke looks suspicious. But then again, he always does.
Chaos, whee!!!
Assistant position. Dangerous. He's in too deep.
Hey, it's Hurley! He made the international news?
Ah, that's where the puppy came from.
What does Boone's shirt say?
Boone's warning. Or can Shannon change?
Sawyer, ugh.
The Boone question.
Everyone gets a new life on this island.
Does Locke really know what he's talking about.
Sawyer, again, ugh.
Lord of the Flies ref. Yep.
Eeep!
Latex gloves are freaky.
Sun slapping Michael to protect him, now Jin beating up the guy to save him.
Something about the little girl.
Now this scene again. But he didn't actually kill anyone. Leaving Sun to imagine the worst. And she slaps him.
Stoicism breaks down.
Chaos again, whee!!!
Nice hearing things from Jin's perspective.
One fight at a time. Thunderdome!!
And Sun breaks her vow of silence.
Didn't see that coming. Hee!
Ah, Jin was trying to put out the fire.
The problem isn't here, it's there! Blaming the Other. Deflecting blame? Setting a trend.
Did Walt do it?
When did we stop talking?
He stops to listen when he can't understand.
God these 2 are breaking my heart.
I want to go back to the beginning.
So... father's not really dead, Jin just disavowed him.
Trying to protect Sun, make her hate him, not her father. Like what Michael did for Walt.
Why Jin and Sun were on the plane.
Watches again.
He was going to get out of the business. Or was he?
Too late! Why on Earth is it too late?
Starting over again.
Backgammon again.
You have a dad? Everyone's got a dad.
Is he cool? No. I smell a flashback episode.
Yep, I was right.
Locke was protecting him by deflecting blame.
I don't want to move anymore.
I like it here. 'Cept it isn't the real world.
And Jin is making amends.
Everyone's coming together. How sweet.
Sun is her own woman.
Nice for the cameraman to oogle her body.
And the batteries die. Nice.
Very pretty episode.
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