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Post by SpringSummers on May 9, 2005 10:23:40 GMT -5
But we S'cubies live for danger. Oh, and if you want to edit any of my posts so that I am wrong less often, please feel free. ;D I'm sorry. I don't have that kinda time.
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Post by artemis on May 9, 2005 10:26:59 GMT -5
a transcript is up for ATttD. here's the part we've been talking about all week -
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Post by artemis on May 9, 2005 10:43:34 GMT -5
Hey! No fair - you said that with much less rambling than I did! i was about to post how much more eloquent you were in arguing this than me when i read the above post. ;D i especially emphatically agreed with this:
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Post by artemis on May 9, 2005 11:09:02 GMT -5
fascinating post, linda. When Duncan believed that Veronica was his sister, why didn't he tell her? What was it that made him keep it from her? Family loyalty? A promise to his mom? Fear of losing status in Neptune? Shame? Still, I believe the healthiest thing for him to have done would've been to tell her. But he didn't. For some reason. i've wondered about this, too. from the fact that veronica didn't break up with duncan, it would have been obvious to him that she didn't know this supposed fact. you'd think it would be the kind of thing you'd mention when dumping someone! i've long thought this was possible as well. the car scene in particular showed to me that duncan didn't have to be in an epileptic fit to fly into a rage. it made me wonder all the more about that scene logan reported to veronica, the one where he found duncan attacking jake. this show has made such a big deal out of the idea that traits are inherited -- so who might he have inherited this from? yay! less than 36 hours to go!
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Post by zimshan on May 9, 2005 15:13:39 GMT -5
I had never remembered hearing her actually ask him, so I went back to the transcripts to check it out. Here's the actual scene: ********************************************** VERONICA: I’ve got a question for you. JAKE: Hello, Veronica. VERONICA: Does your Head of Security make it a habit of taking photographs of high school students and drawing bull’s eyes over their faces or am I special. VERONICA: Clarence Wiedman took pictures of me. Surveillance pictures. He drew a target over my face and sent them to my mother. Why? JAKE: You’re not making any sense. VERONICA: Why? JAKE: I have no idea what you’re talking about. VERONICA: Why would you want my mother out of town? JAKE: I didn’t. VERONICA: Why didn’t she tell me or my father about the pictures instead of hiding them in a safe deposit box? JAKE: [Shouting] I don’t know. They’ve moved to the door, Jake wanting to leave, Veronica blocking his way. Veronica stares at him. VERONICA: I don’t believe you. ********************************************** So she mentions her father, Keith, but doesn't ask him about her parentage. Here it is, right from the transcript: ********************************************** VERONICA: Then what about that is so wrong? DUNCAN: [Screaming] Because you're my sister, and I knew it! E-even after my mother told me, I tried to just cut you out of my life. I loved you! I tried not to, I tried not to, but it won't go away! ********************************************** <a href=" www.livejournal.com/users/picklepocket/">This LJer </a>has been doing all the transcripts lately. There are some middle ones missing, but 'A Trip to the Dentist' has been up since the weekend. There's been some mistakes but on the whole, it's been pretty reliable.
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Post by zimshan on May 9, 2005 16:08:04 GMT -5
Have you read his interview with TV guide from two weeks ago? He talks about how he basically quit show business four years ago to spend time with his family. So VM has been perfect for him because it is filmed close to where he lives, leaving him bunches for family time. Sounds like he's not looking for huge parts anymore and more than content with working on the show. I've had such a problem with trying to figure this out. Everytime I go down the list of characters, I get to the bottom with nothing. Because with each one, I have a problem with them being the murderer. Technically, the suspects list should only be those that were in the pilot, especially considering RT said that it can be figured out with what was given in the pilot, supposively all the answers are there (which goes hand in hand with who noir does things). So, Celeste: problem is she's been portrayed as the bitch all along. She's been the only one shown with an obvious dislike/hatred toward Lilly ('Wrath of the Cons') so it's way too easy. Jake: Technically he appeared in the pilot, although not with any actual lines. But the pilot tells you that Keith thought Jake was the murderer, so that throws the mystery of it all right out. The answer should be there but subtly, not, "he is the murderer." And I'd love for Keith to be right and tell Neptune to stick it. But I don't even think that Keith really believed it was Jake back then. Not if he knew about the soccer uniform and all. Maybe he just alluded to it to get to the truth. Lianne: We haven't seen hardly any of her, they've spoken about her in only a couple of episodes. This one seems like it would be out of the blue if they decided to make it her. I think she, like Duncan, is another mysterious piece to the puzzle. (They both introduced in depth in 1x03 and both came back in 1x21.) Sheriff Lamb: Ummm. Yea. Don't know much about him. He's been shown as an ass but basically as an incompentent boob. He might however be somebody's lackey. Clarence Wiedman:Yea, he wasn't in the pilot, but I still consider him a possiblity because he's the only one out of all of the characters that seems anywhere near possible. Duncan: Nope. Veronica vocally accused him so his name is crossed off the list in my book. His red herring #1, #2 if you think Celeste was the first, #3 if you think Jake was first then Celeste. Weevil: I'm convinced that it's one of the adults that's the murderer just like I was convinced it was one of the kids that raped Veronica. That being said, I think the revenged lover story would be a very bland thing to end up with. Plus, the end of 'Hot Dogs', Weevil said, ''Now if I told you, it wouldn't be a secret" in a bratty tone that if he was really the murderer, he would have said it like that. He was definitely overcommensating, acting tough. He wouldn't have done that if he was guilty. It was just meant as a kind of red herring to throw you off course of the Duncan thing. Aaron: Logan wasn't even suppose to be a main character when RT first wrote the pilot and knew who the killer was. He was just suppose to be a one episode high school character for the pilot. So that in my mind clears Logan and Aaron and Lynn. That doesn't mean that Logan can't be the last red herring though. Cliff McCormick: Koontz lawyer, he was in the Pilot. He's been helping Veronica all season, and so I see no real evidence to put him on the suspects list except that he is a recurring character that was in the Pilot and did have a hand in the Koontz trial. The more I think about it, the more I think it evolved more than just one person. I mean, only one person actually killed her but what if a bunch of them were in cahoots to get the job done. Like I don't see Celeste actually crushing Lilly's skull in, but I do see her initiating the idea. I can see her arranging it, possibly with Clarence Wiedman, in order to perfect the plan. I see Sheriff Lamb being Celeste's (or possibly Jake's even though I really think he's clueless as to what really went down) lackey, doing anything that needed to be done in order for things to fall in the right place, including after when they had to frame Koontz. In that case, I see Cliff could have some how fit in there, and possibly even Aaron. Whatever the case, I'm starting to like 'conspiracy' better than, 'It was just this one person who decided to take a brick and knock the girls head in."
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Post by Sue on May 9, 2005 16:11:37 GMT -5
The thought that Veronica had said something to Jake about her parentage was my error and I've been meaning to reply to Spring's post pointing it out, but....running like a headless chicken.
I am reading the posts folks, just not taking time to respond.
Very sorry.
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Post by zimshan on May 9, 2005 16:33:56 GMT -5
If you want, I could e-mail you the link where you can download the pilot.
I myself am planning on watching it tonight to see if I can squeeze anything else out of it before we are finally told.
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Post by zimshan on May 9, 2005 16:39:59 GMT -5
In the preview? Well, they show Logan in a light green shirt walking somewhere, then they show that quick bit of VM on the beach talking to someone wearing a shirt with the same exact color. So I'm thinking it's Logan. It's a pretty strange color for two people to wear on the same episode. (Also, talk about continuity. I'm pretty sure the shirt was the exact one he wore in the pilot during his walk of shame. )
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Post by Lola m on May 9, 2005 16:52:37 GMT -5
Thanks for the empathy. I am setting two different recorders for Tuesday just in case. Not that I am in any way obsessed, though. You know, like Pixi. ;D No, no, of course not! Not like Pixi. I mean, really. ;D
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Post by Lola m on May 9, 2005 16:57:27 GMT -5
fascinating post, linda. i've wondered about this, too. from the fact that veronica didn't break up with duncan, it would have been obvious to him that she didn't know this supposed fact. you'd think it would be the kind of thing you'd mention when dumping someone! i've long thought this was possible as well. the car scene in particular showed to me that duncan didn't have to be in an epileptic fit to fly into a rage. it made me wonder all the more about that scene logan reported to veronica, the one where he found duncan attacking jake. this show has made such a big deal out of the idea that traits are inherited -- so who might he have inherited this from? yay! less than 36 hours to go! I join you guys in your suspicion regarding Duncan's medical condition or records. I had this odd feeling when his mother gave him his pills in the limo when he got off the plane from Cuba. Just . . . I can't put my finger on it. But it seemed such a . . . control issue. Or . . . I can't put it in words but. Hmmmmmm.
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Post by Lola m on May 9, 2005 17:00:15 GMT -5
Have you read his interview with TV guide from two weeks ago? He talks about how he basically quit show business four years ago to spend time with his family. So VM has been perfect for him because it is filmed close to where he lives, leaving him bunches for family time. Sounds like he's not looking for huge parts anymore and more than content with working on the show. I've had such a problem with trying to figure this out. Everytime I go down the list of characters, I get to the bottom with nothing. Because with each one, I have a problem with them being the murderer. Technically, the suspects list should only be those that were in the pilot, especially considering RT said that it can be figured out with what was given in the pilot, supposively all the answers are there (which goes hand in hand with who noir does things). So, Celeste: problem is she's been portrayed as the bitch all along. She's been the only one shown with an obvious dislike/hatred toward Lilly ('Wrath of the Cons') so it's way too easy. Jake: Technically he appeared in the pilot, although not with any actual lines. But the pilot tells you that Keith thought Jake was the murderer, so that throws the mystery of it all right out. The answer should be there but subtly, not, "he is the murderer." And I'd love for Keith to be right and tell Neptune to stick it. But I don't even think that Keith really believed it was Jake back then. Not if he knew about the soccer uniform and all. Maybe he just alluded to it to get to the truth. Lianne: We haven't seen hardly any of her, they've spoken about her in only a couple of episodes. This one seems like it would be out of the blue if they decided to make it her. I think she, like Duncan, is another mysterious piece to the puzzle. (They both introduced in depth in 1x03 and both came back in 1x21.) Sheriff Lamb: Ummm. Yea. Don't know much about him. He's been shown as an ass but basically as an incompentent boob. He might however be somebody's lackey. Clarence Wiedman:Yea, he wasn't in the pilot, but I still consider him a possiblity because he's the only one out of all of the characters that seems anywhere near possible. Duncan: Nope. Veronica vocally accused him so his name is crossed off the list in my book. His red herring #1, #2 if you think Celeste was the first, #3 if you think Jake was first then Celeste. Weevil: I'm convinced that it's one of the adults that's the murderer just like I was convinced it was one of the kids that raped Veronica. That being said, I think the revenged lover story would be a very bland thing to end up with. Plus, the end of 'Hot Dogs', Weevil said, ''Now if I told you, it wouldn't be a secret" in a bratty tone that if he was really the murderer, he would have said it like that. He was definitely overcommensating, acting tough. He wouldn't have done that if he was guilty. It was just meant as a kind of red herring to throw you off course of the Duncan thing. Aaron: Logan wasn't even suppose to be a main character when RT first wrote the pilot and knew who the killer was. He was just suppose to be a one episode high school character for the pilot. So that in my mind clears Logan and Aaron and Lynn. That doesn't mean that Logan can't be the last red herring though. Cliff McCormick: Koontz lawyer, he was in the Pilot. He's been helping Veronica all season, and so I see no real evidence to put him on the suspects list except that he is a recurring character that was in the Pilot and did have a hand in the Koontz trial. The more I think about it, the more I think it evolved more than just one person. I mean, only one person actually killed her but what if a bunch of them were in cahoots to get the job done. Like I don't see Celeste actually crushing Lilly's skull in, but I do see her initiating the idea. I can see her arranging it, possibly with Clarence Wiedman, in order to perfect the plan. I see Sheriff Lamb being Celeste's (or possibly Jake's even though I really think he's clueless as to what really went down) lackey, doing anything that needed to be done in order for things to fall in the right place, including after when they had to frame Koontz. In that case, I see Cliff could have some how fit in there, and possibly even Aaron. Whatever the case, I'm starting to like 'conspiracy' better than, 'It was just this one person who decided to take a brick and knock the girls head in." I'm a fan of the "it's more than one person, in some manner" idea. Especially after seeing the "Trip to the Dentist" episode.
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Post by zimshan on May 9, 2005 17:10:29 GMT -5
I'm sorry Sue. I've been replying as I've been reading, and didn't see that it had been straighted out later on in the posts. It saves me time but I guess it's not the wisest of moves.
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Linda not here nope not me
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Post by Linda not here nope not me on May 9, 2005 17:46:49 GMT -5
Hey! And I changed my mind: Abuse of power! Abuse of power! Help! Help! I'm being repressed! ;D
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Post by Sue on May 9, 2005 18:41:23 GMT -5
I'm sorry Sue. I've been replying as I've been reading, and didn't see that it had been straighted out later on in the posts. It saves me time but I guess it's not the wisest of moves. Oh, I wasn't upbraiding you for mentioning it. Not at all. I just felt bad(ly?) that I hadn't responded yet to Spring setting me straight.
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