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Post by Michelle on Feb 7, 2007 17:25:24 GMT -5
Completely agree. Weevil doesn't see straight when it comes to favors for Veronica. Why is that? And, how dare she do that to him?! What if he gets caught "parking the car back on the street"? I mean he didn't get caught stealing the vehicle, but that's not the point. He could have been caught and in deep doggy doo doo. I would agree except, Weevil could have simply said no to her request. And he bragged about cubing a car before--quite publicly, in fact--so it's actually more surprising that he hasn't been arrested.
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Post by KMInfinity on Feb 7, 2007 17:52:00 GMT -5
Pixi I agree with your take on this episode. I didn't like it nearly as much as the last two, for many of the reasons you gave. Y 7. How did Dick, the guy who gleefully encouraged Beaver to rape Veronica and was prepared to roofie his girlfriend, how did this guy get a free pass from everyone and suddenly become a lovable scamp? There's an interview with RT where he discusses this very question. To summarize: he claims that Dick never DID encourage Beaver to rape Veronica...that we only have that info from Beaver and (someone else unreliable) and it's NOT canon. Since the writers LOVE writing for Dick and love the actor, they're fighting to see how to integrate him into stories and are ignoring or retro-characterizing Dick so that he's more "lovable ass" than amoral jerk. I wish they'd fight some to get Percy Daggs some lines. I'm gonna wander off and try to find that article. There may be spoilers in it. Here's the article: tinyurl.com/284cweIf you are avoiding the (very mild) spoilers, here's the relevant portion: In Season 1, Beaver walks us through a flashback where he says that Dick encouraged him to have his way with Veronica while she was unconscious. Beaver said he didn't touch her, which we now know is a total lie. But my question is, are we still supposed to believe Dick put him up to it in the first place? Because if so, it's hard to accept the current portrayal of him as a mostly harmless buffoon, and that he and Veronica are on pretty good terms now. So what gives? Did he really encourage Beaver to rape Veronica, or not?Rob Thomas: All the audience is supposed to know about that night is what two people — mass murderer Beaver and drug-dealer/thief Sean — have told Veronica. According to Dick, he was completely innocent of any intention to violate Veronica. That's a bit of a cop-out answer, and I know it is, but I take some comfort in it. Here's why: At the time we wrote that episode, Ryan Hansen was simply this day-player actor who we weren't terribly invested in. He was, in our mind, the prototypical lunkhead — think the Kurt and Ram characters from Heathers. That was the only function he needed to fill. Then a funny thing happened: The writing staff fell in love with the guy. He knocked every funny line we gave him out of the park, and every writer in the room wanted to put Dick in his/her scenes. Sure, we thought, he's still a lunkhead, but he's a charming, funny, watchable lunkhead. He got dialed down from is-he-a-date-rapist to he's-a-somewhat-lovable-jerk. Certainly characters evolve over time. We would never have Logan, say, organize Bum Fights again. Nor would we imply, again, that Dick was as reprehensible as he may — or may not — have been on the night of Veronica's rape. If it helps you [when you're watching] Dick to keep in mind that the two people who reported his bad behavior on the night of Veronica's rape are unreliable, know that you're not alone. It also helps me.
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Post by Rob on Feb 7, 2007 20:45:54 GMT -5
There were several things about this episode that disturbed me.
1. Ok, I completely understand Veronica being unable to get past Madison. No, they weren't together at the time...but Logan's smart enough to know that a fling with Madison, of all people, would get back to Veronica eventually, AND be a deal-breaker. Put the roofie plot details aside and just consider their interaction over the last couple of years. Madison is as low as it gets from her perspective. Based on that, I totally get why Logan didn't offer specifics; honesty up front would have just produced the same result much faster. The damage was done.
What isn't understandable is his mindset in hooking up with Madison in the first place. What could he have been thinking?
Well...ok, I know what he was thinking, but seriously...is the man so devoid of self-respect that he'll just bang any willing woman, regardless of who she is? I'm convinced he desperately needs professional help, as soon as possible...'cause this is an increasingly frightening self-destruction jag he's on. It's as if he does these things unconsciously, just to ensure that he and Veronica will have a wedge driven between them. If he truly believes he doesn't deserve happiness, that is a slippery slope toward a suicide attempt.
I dearly hope someone comes to the young man's aid...and I fear it cannot be Veronica. In fact, she might be the least qualified person on the show, which brings me to:
2. What in holy Hell was up with Veronica last night? Asking Weevil to commit a felony while on parole, just for some pointless revenge? Does she not care about his well-being at all? How selfish can a person be?
Admittedly, Eli is his own man; could (and should) have told V to go fly a kite. I suppose he didn't because he has a certain loyalty where she's involved.
Still, I cannot imagine V asking, say, Wallace to commit a felony for her...even if he had a gift for boosting sports cars. It says something rather disturbing about her lack of regard for Weevil...which makes me sad. I thought Veronica was better than this, regardless of the condition of her heart at a given moment.
Admittedly, she DID manage to stop herself at the end, but that doesn't earn her a free pass. It's bothersome that she allowed things to progress that far.
3. Of course, it probably wouldn't have gone that far if WALLACE WERE ACTUALLY AROUND!!!
Seriously, I'm getting tired of this. Mr. Thomas, if you're going to relegate Wallace's character to the level of Piz or Dick (10-12 episodes, no real plot liine of his own), I'd rather you just write him off the damned show. As a key component to the its success, he deserves far better than to be pushed aside so that Logan can get screen time every week.
All right, I'm done ranting. :-)
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Feb 9, 2007 15:18:18 GMT -5
Teaser
So this episode is going to focus on the Dean O'Dell case again. Good.
Is this a dream sequence? Yeah, dream sequence. About Logan's tryst over winter break.
Bonnie. Oh, Tim's Bonnie. And Dick's Bonnie, right?
Some one gave her an abortion pill without her consent. That's a new angle.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Feb 9, 2007 15:28:33 GMT -5
Part I
Yeah, I don't think that the library is the best place to discuss something like this.
I would go for wanting Tim to be the father. Considering the alternative.
She likes Tim because he's like her father. Oh, dear.
Doctor didn't abide by Doctor/Patient confidentiality.
So she hadn't made up her mind about whether to keep the baby or not.
At least Veronica didn't drag this confrontation out.
Veronica's not exactly rational about this whole Shelley Pomroy's party thing and Madison's role. But she deserves a pass.
And a lot of this is about the concept of being 2 degrees away from Madison. Imagine if Logan slept with Dick.
The minivan question.
I think she's lying by the way she scratched her head.
"Turn a profit?"
Dick didn't know about Logan and Madison.
Bonnie's dad is a televangalist.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Feb 9, 2007 15:36:39 GMT -5
Part II
Clever ruse, Veronica. Hee!
picture of the American flag.
Does Logan know that they broke up? Cause that wasn't so clear to me.
When I've got her in my sights, I'm in control.
Madison's at USC.
Fingerprints, Veronica.
Ah, I see how she did it.
"Dick Tracey"
So Tim wants to be Veronica.
Tim's got a Dean O'Dell murder file. You used to have those, Veronica, remember?
Anthony Martin.
Logan's in EmoMode.
Dick's pissed at Logan over Madison.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Feb 9, 2007 15:44:03 GMT -5
Part III
Hester. Snerk.
Hey, It's That Guy.
Ah, clever again, Veronica.
Ah this is Anthony Martin. And he's useless.
Or not. Space Ghost. So there's a timeframe.
Planning revenge on Madison.
That is the going rate, isn't it?
Some one was tailing her?
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Feb 9, 2007 15:50:19 GMT -5
Part IV
Honey, that's how we pay the rent. Hee.
Hee. They are totally making this up on the spot.
Oh, so this group is Pro Life and this is their angle.
Yeah, it's Bonnie's dad's group.
So Keith and Veronica really do live 10 blocks away.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Feb 9, 2007 16:01:59 GMT -5
Coda.
It's Stealth Action Keith!
It's her ex.
Egg on the car.
What a beautiful translight.
DrunkLogan. This is never good.
"If you dig deep enough, you gonna find everyone's a sinner." Certainly seems to be true.
What is going on with that fish poster? Or is that the TV?
Either/Or?
She's going to turn off the message bfore the end. Yep. Dammit.
It's the roommate.
Shame Campaign. That's the word.
It was Tim. Just based on that? That's pretty tenuous. Oh, it was the rommate.
Whoa. This roommate has seriously lost perspective.
Again, Veronica. Consulting your clients in private is probably better.
She's going to change her mind. I kind of wanted her so go through with it.
Veronica's going soft.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Feb 9, 2007 16:07:01 GMT -5
"My name is Carson Drew, and this is my assistant Nancy" HA! OMG I can't believe I missed that. and
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Feb 9, 2007 16:30:54 GMT -5
I thought this was a great episode. It was an original case of the week, and interesting in the way that they named and eliminated the suspects. I for one didn't guess that it was the roommate until Bonnie's dad showed up and it was clear how much of a rapport she had with him. And the Dean O'Dell murder plot moved forward significantly.
And I think I should clarify that I wanted Veronica to actually go through with crushing Madison's car not because Madison deserves it, cause she doesn't, but I wanted Veronica to have to deal doing something wrong and regretting it. Some kind of fallout from her craziness. Might teach her a little humility with regards to the other people in her life. Namely Logan, who's done several boneheaded things and regretted them, but also the people she deals with in her cases, both the culprits and the clients. And Keith with his transgression, etc.
And finally, I'm trying to put this in a delicate way, but we all do remember that all our supporting characters, Wallace, Weevil, Mac, etc, are only in so many episodes, right? I think Rob Thomas even mentions how many episodes each actor is contracted for in interviews and such. I love all the characters and do wish that all the characters were in every episode, but I just don't undestand why it is a surprise at this point when a particular character is missing for a while.
ETA: And this comment's not just directed towards the comments on this thread, but all the stuff I've been seeing all along in lj land and the twop recaps. I hope I'm not offending anyone, I guess I just feel a need to rant myself.
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Post by Lola m on Feb 12, 2007 18:55:05 GMT -5
I thought this was a great episode. It was an original case of the week, and interesting in the way that they named and eliminated the suspects. I for one didn't guess that it was the roommate until Bonnie's dad showed up and it was clear how much of a rapport she had with him. And the Dean O'Dell murder plot moved forward significantly. And I think I should clarify that I wanted Veronica to actually go through with crushing Madison's car not because Madison deserves it, cause she doesn't, but I wanted Veronica to have to deal doing something wrong and regretting it. Some kind of fallout from her craziness. Might teach her a little humility with regards to the other people in her life. Namely Logan, who's done several boneheaded things and regretted it, but also the people she deals with in her cases, both the culprits and her clients. And Keith with his transgression, etc. And finally, I'm trying to put this in a delicate way, but we all do remember that all our supporting characters, Wallace, Weevil, Mac, etc, are only in so many episodes, right? I think Rob Thomas even mentions how many episodes each actor is contracted for in interviews and such. I love all the characters and do wish that all the characters were in every episode, but I just don't undestand why it is a surprise at this point when a particular character is missing for a while. ETA: And this comment's not just directed towards the comments on this thread, but all the stuff I've been seeing all along in lj land and the twop recaps. I hope I'm not offending anyone, I guess I just feel a need to rant myself. That is a very different and interesting take on why it might have been good to have Veronica actually cube the car. I was taking her somewhat flip statements about being crazy Veronica as sort of the truth. She really was a bit nuts over the whole situation. I think even she knows, somewhere inside, that blaming Madison for her being drugged is . . . not rational. Her anger is not rational either. It just is. But your idea of wanting her to get some kind of shock to her system, to show her that some of her more extreme actions can have some very extreme consequenced? Could be a good thing. Oh, and yeah, the rationing of characters due to budget contraints is perfectly understandable. I just like to be cranky about it. No worries about ranting, ranting can be a very good thing. And heck, we all do it at one time or another.
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Post by Onjel on Feb 12, 2007 22:06:49 GMT -5
Completely agree. Weevil doesn't see straight when it comes to favors for Veronica. Why is that? And, how dare she do that to him?! What if he gets caught "parking the car back on the street"? I mean he didn't get caught stealing the vehicle, but that's not the point. He could have been caught and in deep doggy doo doo. I would agree except, Weevil could have simply said no to her request. And he bragged about cubing a car before--quite publicly, in fact--so it's actually more surprising that he hasn't been arrested. He could have, but for some reason, he never sees straight where V's requests are concerned. *sigh*
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Post by SpringSummers on Mar 18, 2007 12:03:00 GMT -5
S’cubies! Veronica Mars fans! We are still churning out the reviews! Now up:
THERE’S GOT TO BE A MORNING AFTER PILL: What’s done is done – by Spring Summers
This episode featured Bonnie Capistrano, Tim’s girlfriend and Dick’s . . . orgasm-friend, and the miscarriage she had, brought on by RU486. You can find the review by going to the S3 home page ( www.soulfulspike.com/indexholder.htm), or you can access it directly by clicking on the image below:[/size] Please read it with a microscope, and then let me know what your investigation turns up. [/b]
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Post by jeff on Mar 18, 2007 14:25:17 GMT -5
Fantastic review Spring Loved the references, plus you get the morning after of Veronica's reaction to Logans night with Madison. The fact that everyone has different ways to deal with things the morning after is overwhelming, and truthfully in my opinion there is no right or wrong way to deal with them, it is up to that individual to deal the best way they can. The thing I noticed is there were not much of people asking others for help to deal with the morning after, as much as people offering help when not asked. Bonnie didnt ask Pyllis for help, she took it upon herself to give her the pill. Bonnie didnt ask her parents for help, they told her what they wanted her to do with the balloons and celebration. The doc telling the parents without Bonnies permission, again instituting is own opinion on how to help. So the whole show is about those who offer help or opinion without being asked when all they should be doing is supporting those who needed the help, and being there for them when they asked for help or opinion. I am sure some of this echoed what you said in your reveiw but I am attempting to go deep here, ROFL, it does not happen to often.
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