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Post by Michelle on Mar 18, 2007 15:29:12 GMT -5
Your review illuminated so many things for me. Thank you! I think when I initially watched it, I was so caught up in the emotionally charged breakup of Logan and Veronica, I couldn't focus on other aspects of the episode. I particularly liked this point: Veronica is disgusted by the surveillance methods of a pro-life group. Keith points out that they do the same type of thing, in their work. Veronica seems to feel that it is different when they do it. Very convenient thinking, there, St. Veronica. So . . . is it right, or is it wrong, to spy on others? That coupled with Logan saying "Judge not..." on her voicemail is perfect. And I like this: But everyone fumbles around. They’ve all got their own ideas of what constitutes helping. Sometimes they actually help. Other times, not so much.The way this episode played with stereotypes about televangelists and pro-life groups was really thought-provoking. There was a lot to "hmmm" about!
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Post by SpringSummers on Mar 18, 2007 16:51:24 GMT -5
Fantastic review Spring Loved the references, plus you get the morning after of Veronica's reaction to Logans night with Madison. The fact that everyone has different ways to deal with things the morning after is overwhelming, and truthfully in my opinion there is no right or wrong way to deal with them, it is up to that individual to deal the best way they can. The thing I noticed is there were not much of people asking others for help to deal with the morning after, as much as people offering help when not asked. Bonnie didnt ask Pyllis for help, she took it upon herself to give her the pill. Bonnie didnt ask her parents for help, they told her what they wanted her to do with the balloons and celebration. The doc telling the parents without Bonnies permission, again instituting is own opinion on how to help. So the whole show is about those who offer help or opinion without being asked when all they should be doing is supporting those who needed the help, and being there for them when they asked for help or opinion. I am sure some of this echoed what you said in your reveiw but I am attempting to go deep here, ROFL, it does not happen to often. Yes, that's exactly right - we get multiple instances of what others may think of as help, but what really amounts to unwanted intrusion. But we do have the "asking for help" also - Veronica asks Weevil for help; Bonnie asks Dick and Tim for help . . . I think we are meant to compare and contrast . . . the difference between helping when you are asked for help, and just deciding on your own to step in there, and help. Lots of moral amiguity . . .helping when you are not asked . . . not helping when you are asked (Dick isn't going to help without that paternity test) . . . helping when you are asked (like Tim does - and Weevil does, but he's helping Veronica do something destructive . . . is that OK?) I think it partially goes back to what is a proper "parent's role" and a proper "buddy's" role. A parent of a minor child might have to step-in and "intrude" and give a child help he or she protests against, and that might be appropriate . . . but with an adult, shouldn't you respect their wants, rather than dictate their needs? Well, you SHOULD, but what about when someone is truly hurting themselves? Is there ever justification for the kind of thing Phyllis did? When is it OK to do something for someone's "own good?" Bonnie mentions that she likes being taken care of; Tim, like her father "takes care of her." Madison still takes her laundry home, and accepts extravagant gifts from her parents. Often, a person who lets themselves be "taken care of" pays a price for that - you live in my house, you go by my rules, no? Do you "owe" your caretaker? Do Bonnie's parents have more of a right to impose their will, than Phyllis does? There are lots of incidents of the characters trying to ask correctly, and respond correctly. It's just not easy drawing the lines. Thanks for the feedback, Jeff, and the "deep thoughts."
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Post by SpringSummers on Mar 18, 2007 16:55:55 GMT -5
Your review illuminated so many things for me. Thank you! I think when I initially watched it, I was so caught up in the emotionally charged breakup of Logan and Veronica, I couldn't focus on other aspects of the episode. I particularly liked this point: Veronica is disgusted by the surveillance methods of a pro-life group. Keith points out that they do the same type of thing, in their work. Veronica seems to feel that it is different when they do it. Very convenient thinking, there, St. Veronica. So . . . is it right, or is it wrong, to spy on others? That coupled with Logan saying "Judge not..." on her voicemail is perfect. And I like this: But everyone fumbles around. They’ve all got their own ideas of what constitutes helping. Sometimes they actually help. Other times, not so much.The way this episode played with stereotypes about televangelists and pro-life groups was really thought-provoking. There was a lot to "hmmm" about! Thanks, Fotada . . . yep . . . just about every word and every scene harkened back to that . . . exploration of moral ambiguity thing that the ep had going for it. I liked that it didn't "demonize" or "canonize" anyone. The televangelist seemed like a truly nice guy; the right-to-lifer may have been intrusive, but he seemed sincere, and he wasn't nearly as intrusive as Phyllis. And Phyllis herself, as horrible as her act was - we couldn't help but see her anguish and wonder what drove her. She was very human, not just some one-sided villain. Same with Logan and Veronica. I couldn't blame Veronica for being unable to deal with the Madison thing. I couldn't blame Logan for feeling that he was paying too high a price for his "past indiscretion."
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Post by Lola m on Mar 20, 2007 16:58:09 GMT -5
Fab review/analysis, Spring!
For example, I liked how you highlighted the very important underlying theme of how much (or little) you are able to do to fix things. It's woven throughout the ep, isn't it? What's fixable, what's not. We see it in the main "case" and really in all the relationships as well.
But I particularly liked how you wrestled with all the gray area we were presented with. Do circumstances and motives make a difference? How far should a parent intervene in the life of their "child" who is an adult? How much help is actually helpful?
One of the things I love about VM is the grayness. Our heroine is not perfect, nor are her clients. Everyone makes mistakes, and everyone learns (or doesn't) from those mistakes. And, just like life, the answers are more complicated than they might appear at first.
Your mention of images of hands, the way people are reaching out to others - just excellent observations!
Kudos, Spring!
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Post by Lola m on Mar 20, 2007 17:01:53 GMT -5
Fantastic review Spring Loved the references, plus you get the morning after of Veronica's reaction to Logans night with Madison. The fact that everyone has different ways to deal with things the morning after is overwhelming, and truthfully in my opinion there is no right or wrong way to deal with them, it is up to that individual to deal the best way they can. The thing I noticed is there were not much of people asking others for help to deal with the morning after, as much as people offering help when not asked. Bonnie didnt ask Pyllis for help, she took it upon herself to give her the pill. Bonnie didnt ask her parents for help, they told her what they wanted her to do with the balloons and celebration. The doc telling the parents without Bonnies permission, again instituting is own opinion on how to help. So the whole show is about those who offer help or opinion without being asked when all they should be doing is supporting those who needed the help, and being there for them when they asked for help or opinion. I am sure some of this echoed what you said in your reveiw but I am attempting to go deep here, ROFL, it does not happen to often. Yes, that's exactly right - we get multiple instances of what others may think of as help, but what really amounts to unwanted intrusion. But we do have the "asking for help" also - Veronica asks Weevil for help; Bonnie asks Dick and Tim for help . . . I think we are meant to compare and contrast . . . the difference between helping when you are asked for help, and just deciding on your own to step in there, and help. Lots of moral amiguity . . .helping when you are not asked . . . not helping when you are asked (Dick isn't going to help without that paternity test) . . . helping when you are asked (like Tim does - and Weevil does, but he's helping Veronica do something destructive . . . is that OK?) I think it partially goes back to what is a proper "parent's role" and a proper "buddy's" role. A parent of a minor child might have to step-in and "intrude" and give a child help he or she protests against, and that might be appropriate . . . but with an adult, shouldn't you respect their wants, rather than dictate their needs? Well, you SHOULD, but what about when someone is truly hurting themselves? Is there ever justification for the kind of thing Phyllis did? When is it OK to do something for someone's "own good?" Bonnie mentions that she likes being taken care of; Tim, like her father "takes care of her." Madison still takes her laundry home, and accepts extravagant gifts from her parents. Often, a person who lets themselves be "taken care of" pays a price for that - you live in my house, you go by my rules, no? Do you "owe" your caretaker? Do Bonnie's parents have more of a right to impose their will, than Phyllis does? There are lots of incidents of the characters trying to ask correctly, and respond correctly. It's just not easy drawing the lines. Thanks for the feedback, Jeff, and the "deep thoughts." **nods nods nods to both of you**
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Post by SpringSummers on Mar 21, 2007 18:10:43 GMT -5
Fab review/analysis, Spring! For example, I liked how you highlighted the very important underlying theme of how much (or little) you are able to do to fix things. It's woven throughout the ep, isn't it? What's fixable, what's not. We see it in the main "case" and really in all the relationships as well. But I particularly liked how you wrestled with all the gray area we were presented with. Do circumstances and motives make a difference? How far should a parent intervene in the life of their "child" who is an adult? How much help is actually helpful? One of the things I love about VM is the grayness. Our heroine is not perfect, nor are her clients. Everyone makes mistakes, and everyone learns (or doesn't) from those mistakes. And, just like life, the answers are more complicated than they might appear at first. Your mention of images of hands, the way people are reaching out to others - just excellent observations! Kudos, Spring! Thanks for the feedback, Lola-Motorola! I love the gray, too!
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