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Post by Queen E on Jul 22, 2007 18:31:31 GMT -5
General Discussion Observation Ch 1-16No comments yet except to note that RON WEASLEY IS NO XANDER HARRIS! No, but I'm not sure he's supposed to be. I wasn't entirely surprised at his actions...I think he maybe needs his own quest to understand what's valuable and important to him. In one respect, he's very Xander-ish; he is letting his insecurities overdetermine his behavior and responses.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Jul 22, 2007 18:57:15 GMT -5
Spoilers for the Whole Book
Wow. That was good. Might be my favorite book of the series. Maybe. Must think on this some more. Hmm.
I saw some of the twists coming, but I was not expecting Snape to die.
And I guess Mad Eyed Moody really did die. Very high body count actually.
And I still have trouble believing Harry and Ginny's relationship, and I think it's because they spend so little time together throughout the whole series. And it still seems like Harry and Hermione have a thing. Even towards the end (before the epilogue), his focus is Ron and Hermione, with only a passing glance at Ginny.
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Post by jeff on Jul 22, 2007 22:19:26 GMT -5
Spoilers for the Whole BookWow. That was good. Might be my favorite book of the series. Maybe. Must think on this some more. Hmm. I saw some of the twists coming, but I was not expecting Snape to die. And I guess Mad Eyed Moody really did die. Very high body count actually. And I still have trouble believing Harry and Ginny's relationship, and I think it's because they spend so little time together throughout the whole series. And it still seems like Harry and Hermione have a thing. Even towards the end (before the epilogue), his focus is Ron and Hermione, with only a passing glance at Ginny. Continued whole book spoilersI think that was the way it was supposed to be. It was the three of them from the beginning. Like Hermione deciding to stay with Harry instead of leaving with Ron. That did not deture me from their relationship in the epiloge. Just as Harry focusing on Hermione and Ron did not deture his and Ginny's relationship. I do wish she had spent more time on both relationships, I would have loved to see that aspect of it develop. JKR had metioned that she was ending Harry's story in a way that it could not be continued by other authors. I for one was suprised at the ending. She left much more to be written about Harry Potter and everyone else for that matter. Skipping ahead 19 years was a shocker for me. There is so much room for stories in that 19 years. Plus not to mention the stories that could be written about Albus, James and Lily Potter, along with the Weasley children and Teddy Lupin. Many more stories abound with that ending. The Fanfic alone will be plentiful. I for one would be suprised if JKR herself does not delve back into the world of Hogwarts in the future. If not about Harry then surely about the new generation. I completely loved every page of the book, and will discuss certian chapters more when I can wrestle the book away from Michelle.
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Post by jeff on Jul 22, 2007 23:14:39 GMT -5
Chapter 8 - 10 Spoilers
The wedding was not as I pictured it to be at the end of the last book, but it was still enjoyable reading.
The ministry falling and scrimgeour is Dead. This is not a good sign of things to come.
I loved Kreachers tale. That chapter changed my whole opinion of Kreacher. Plus it was cool to have seen the last movie so I had an appearance and voice to go along with Kreacher my imagination is good, but when it comes to house elf's for some reason I always could only picture Dobby. So it was cool to have seen him before reading this chapter.
I think most everyone had figured out R.A.B was Regulas. So this did not come as a shock to me.
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Post by jeff on Jul 22, 2007 23:39:15 GMT -5
Chapter 11 -16 Spoilers
I suppose I could understand Ron's frustration, and I am glad Dumbledore did as well. He understood more than anyone how Ron and Hermione would act and think, that is why they complemented Harry so much. Each one was the ends to his middle.
I loved JKR's discription of Godric's Hollow. Very detailed and a wonderful read. Harry and Hermione walking out of the Graveyard arms around each other was a wonderful end of the chapter.
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Post by jeff on Jul 22, 2007 23:57:43 GMT -5
Chapter 17 -19 Spoilers
It was interesting reliving the night James and Lily died through Voldermorts eyes.
Also love how three words told us exactly who had pulled Harry out of the water and retrieved the sword
"Are - You - Mental?"
So glad that Ron came back. And that he retrieved the sword for Harry.
I liked the fact that Ron destroyed the Horcrux, In fact I was thinking. Is the Diary the only Horcrux Harry distroyed himself? I can't think of another that he physically destroyed himself. Harry may have to face Voldermort alone but he could not have gotten there without everyone else's help.
The more I go over this book once more and comment on it, the more I realize just how much I loved these books and how for the past 10 years they have been a part of my life.
I think I am going to start over and re-read everyone of them back to back.
It will be like re-watching BtVS on DVD. Except here I don't have to wait 2 years or more for a new book. I can read them back to back to back to back to back to back to back. ROFL
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Post by S'ewing S'cubie on Jul 23, 2007 6:09:27 GMT -5
Well, in terror of accidental spoilers, I have finished reading the book. Will post my thoughts tomorrow with a huge WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS warning. Unless anyone would prefer me not to. I finished the book late last night. (Had to, husband was beginning to nag for his turn). I'm ready for whole book discussions. There are points I must have missed that confuzzel the bejayzuz under me.
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Post by S'ewing S'cubie on Jul 23, 2007 6:12:39 GMT -5
General Discussion Observation Ch 1-16No comments yet except to note that RON WEASLEY IS NO XANDER HARRIS! No, but I'm not sure he's supposed to be. I wasn't entirely surprised at his actions...I think he maybe needs his own quest to understand what's valuable and important to him. In one respect, he's very Xander-ish; he is letting his insecurities overdetermine his behavior and responses. WHOLE BOOK SPOILER BELOWWell, at least he came through later on. I, however, am with Hermione in being pissed at him for running off, but with Harry in forgiving him because the horcrux was clearly working more on him than on the other two.
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Post by S'ewing S'cubie on Jul 23, 2007 6:18:21 GMT -5
Spoilers for the Whole BookWow. That was good. Might be my favorite book of the series. Maybe. Must think on this some more. Hmm. I saw some of the twists coming, but I was not expecting Snape to die. And I guess Mad Eyed Moody really did die. Very high body count actually. And I still have trouble believing Harry and Ginny's relationship, and I think it's because they spend so little time together throughout the whole series. And it still seems like Harry and Hermione have a thing. Even towards the end (before the epilogue), his focus is Ron and Hermione, with only a passing glance at Ginny. WHOLE BOOK SPOILER BELOWThat wasn't Harry's choice. There was so much going on, Harry needed to focus and Ginny (still underage) couldn't participate. I hate to say this, but I called nearly every point in the book. The only surprise was that I wasn't surprised. I called what the last horcrux (found, not destroyed) was going to be ages ago.
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Post by S'ewing S'cubie on Jul 23, 2007 6:30:21 GMT -5
Spoilers for the Whole BookWow. That was good. Might be my favorite book of the series. Maybe. Must think on this some more. Hmm. I saw some of the twists coming, but I was not expecting Snape to die. And I guess Mad Eyed Moody really did die. Very high body count actually. And I still have trouble believing Harry and Ginny's relationship, and I think it's because they spend so little time together throughout the whole series. And it still seems like Harry and Hermione have a thing. Even towards the end (before the epilogue), his focus is Ron and Hermione, with only a passing glance at Ginny. Continued whole book spoilersI think that was the way it was supposed to be. It was the three of them from the beginning. Like Hermione deciding to stay with Harry instead of leaving with Ron. That did not deture me from their relationship in the epiloge. Just as Harry focusing on Hermione and Ron did not deture his and Ginny's relationship. I do wish she had spent more time on both relationships, I would have loved to see that aspect of it develop. JKR had metioned that she was ending Harry's story in a way that it could not be continued by other authors. I for one was suprised at the ending. She left much more to be written about Harry Potter and everyone else for that matter. Skipping ahead 19 years was a shocker for me. There is so much room for stories in that 19 years. Plus not to mention the stories that could be written about Albus, James and Lily Potter, along with the Weasley children and Teddy Lupin. Many more stories abound with that ending. The Fanfic alone will be plentiful. I for one would be suprised if JKR herself does not delve back into the world of Hogwarts in the future. If not about Harry then surely about the new generation. I completely loved every page of the book, and will discuss certian chapters more when I can wrestle the book away from Michelle. WHOLE BOOK SPOILER BELOWDid anybody here ever read Little Women? At the beginning the four girls, Meg, Jo, Beth and Amy are 16, 15, 13 and 12 respectively. (No, I'm not channeling the Mayor.) The point is that Louisa May Alcott wrote three sequels that are much less known. The first sequel, Good Wives, takes up two years after the first book ends. The two next books, Little Men and Jo's Boys pick up a generation later and follow the adventures of the Little Women's offspring. The original characters, now adults, are only presented in a minor way. J.K. Rowling has left the opening to do the same. The further adventures of Harry's and Ginny's children, Ron and Hermione's children, the Malfoy kid and others could easily be picked up with the original characters as minor characters (Professor Longbottom, hee!). The story of Hogwarts can continue.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Jul 23, 2007 8:19:41 GMT -5
Chapter 17 -19 SpoilersIt was interesting reliving the night James and Lily died through Voldermorts eyes. Also love how three words told us exactly who had pulled Harry out of the water and retrieved the sword "Are - You - Mental?" So glad that Ron came back. And that he retrieved the sword for Harry. I liked the fact that Ron destroyed the Horcrux, In fact I was thinking. Is the Diary the only Horcrux Harry distroyed himself? I can't think of another that he physically destroyed himself. Harry may have to face Voldermort alone but he could not have gotten there without everyone else's help. The more I go over this book once more and comment on it, the more I realize just how much I loved these books and how for the past 10 years they have been a part of my life. I think I am going to start over and re-read everyone of them back to back. It will be like re-watching BtVS on DVD. Except here I don't have to wait 2 years or more for a new book. I can read them back to back to back to back to back to back to back. ROFL Spoilers for the Whole Book BelowHorcruxes Diary- Harry destroys Ring- Dumbledore destroys Locket- Ron destroys Goblet-Ron and Hermione destroy Diadem- Crabbe (?) destroys Harry-Voldemort "destroys" Nagini- Neville destroys So, yeah, Harry only destroyed the diary by himself, and he didn't even know it was a horcrux at the time.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Jul 23, 2007 8:22:59 GMT -5
Spoilers for the Whole BookWow. That was good. Might be my favorite book of the series. Maybe. Must think on this some more. Hmm. I saw some of the twists coming, but I was not expecting Snape to die. And I guess Mad Eyed Moody really did die. Very high body count actually. And I still have trouble believing Harry and Ginny's relationship, and I think it's because they spend so little time together throughout the whole series. And it still seems like Harry and Hermione have a thing. Even towards the end (before the epilogue), his focus is Ron and Hermione, with only a passing glance at Ginny. WHOLE BOOK SPOILER BELOWThat wasn't Harry's choice. There was so much going on, Harry needed to focus and Ginny (still underage) couldn't participate. I hate to say this, but I called nearly every point in the book. The only surprise was that I wasn't surprised. I called what the last horcrux (found, not destroyed) was going to be ages ago. Spoilers for the Whole Book BelowI think a lot of people had already guessed that Harry was a horcrux. I think that only thing that really surprised me was the body count, of characters that we knew.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Jul 23, 2007 8:37:41 GMT -5
Continued whole book spoilersI think that was the way it was supposed to be. It was the three of them from the beginning. Like Hermione deciding to stay with Harry instead of leaving with Ron. That did not deture me from their relationship in the epiloge. Just as Harry focusing on Hermione and Ron did not deture his and Ginny's relationship. I do wish she had spent more time on both relationships, I would have loved to see that aspect of it develop. JKR had metioned that she was ending Harry's story in a way that it could not be continued by other authors. I for one was suprised at the ending. She left much more to be written about Harry Potter and everyone else for that matter. Skipping ahead 19 years was a shocker for me. There is so much room for stories in that 19 years. Plus not to mention the stories that could be written about Albus, James and Lily Potter, along with the Weasley children and Teddy Lupin. Many more stories abound with that ending. The Fanfic alone will be plentiful. I for one would be suprised if JKR herself does not delve back into the world of Hogwarts in the future. If not about Harry then surely about the new generation. I completely loved every page of the book, and will discuss certian chapters more when I can wrestle the book away from Michelle. WHOLE BOOK SPOILER BELOWDid anybody here ever read Little Women? At the beginning the four girls, Meg, Jo, Beth and Amy are 16, 15, 13 and 12 respectively. (No, I'm not channeling the Mayor.) The point is that Louisa May Alcott wrote three sequels that are much less known. The first sequel, Good Wives, takes up two years after the first book ends. The two next books, Little Men and Jo's Boys pick up a generation later and follow the adventures of the Little Women's offspring. The original characters, now adults, are only presented in a minor way. J.K. Rowling has left the opening to do the same. The further adventures of Harry's and Ginny's children, Ron and Hermione's children, the Malfoy kid and others could easily be picked up with the original characters as minor characters (Professor Longbottom, hee!). The story of Hogwarts can continue. Spoilers for the Whole Book BelowI've read Little Women/Good Wives (which I have as one book) and Little Men. Not Jo's Boys yet though. I could definitely see JK Rowling doing something similar, or writing a whole series about one of the other minor characters. If she really wanted to end Harry's story in a way that no other author could take over his story, I don't think she succeeded, because there is sooooo much that's not addressed. And while the ending was kinda cute, with the next generation beginning their adventures at Hogwarts, all we really know about what happened to Harry afterwards is that he is happily married with children. Yay for him. We don't even know what career he decided to pursue, which was a somewhat significant question in the later books. We don't know much about Hermione or Ron either. Neville became a professor, and Kingsley was Minister of Magic for a time. The book portrayed a huge upheaval in the wizarding world that I would have liked to know something about the fallout and subsequent rebuilding, but JK Rowling never mentions any of that at all. I really wish the epilogue had at least made passing reference to any of that.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Jul 23, 2007 8:46:00 GMT -5
Spoilers for the Whole Book Below
One of my theories for a while now about what would happen to Harry was that he would become Hogwart's Defense Against the Dark Arts prof. You know, one who stayed for more than a year. I thought that that would be fitting, especially since he sort of became that in book 5 with Dumbledore's Army. My other idea was that he would become headmaster. From the epilogue, I guess neither of those things happened.
When they kept mentioning the Secrecy Act that was passed in 1600-something, I started thinking that the result of all this would be to revise that stance, especially since Voldemort's angle was all about wizard superiority and the need to isolate wizard from muggle. I can't see that repealing it would be a good idea though, but I thought that something was going to happen about relations between the two worlds.
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Post by Sara on Jul 23, 2007 9:29:51 GMT -5
Spoilers for the Whole BookSome random thoughts, tossed off in no particular order... Things I liked/loved: - Lots and lots of Trio time. It made me very, very happy that this book spent so much time on Harry, Hermione and Ron and their amazing friendship.
- Neville, McGonagall, Luna, and Molly Weasley, who rocked hardcore. Especially Neville, proving how true a Gryffindor he really was.
- Snape. I never believed he'd gone dark side on us, and the revelation that the doe guiding Harry had been his Patronus just about killed me.
- Percy, who sucked it up, admitted he'd been an idiot and a prat, and showed up in time to fight the good fight. Another true Gryffindor.
- Dudley shaking Harry's hand. That gesture was just plain cool.
- Narcissa, for placing family over power.
- Dobby and Kreacher. Ultimately they both demonstrated a nobility and humanity several of the humans we met over the series were sorely lacking in (Bellatrix, I'm looking at you).
- Hermione being right about treating house elves with respect. Frankly, I'm curious to see how the next two movies play out now, as they've completely cut out all of Hermione's S.P.E.W. storyline so far.
- Hermione in general, for proving she was indeed the cleverest witch of her age, for doing what was right instead of what was easy in choosing to stay with Harry, for not breaking under Bellatrix's torture, and for being human enough to remain pissed at Ron for a while and keep stubbornly sticking to her Scully-like reliance on facts—'cause without those flaws, she'd have ended up seeming a little too perfect.
- Ron, for coming back. And for finally achieving at least a tablespoon of emotional maturity.
- Harry, for being Harry.
Things I had issues with: - Harry and Ginny. I'm with Liz on this; JKR never really showed us why they were drawn to each other (outside of teenage hormones), let alone any reason they'd end up spending their lives together. Hell, he bonded with Luna on a much more significant level than we ever saw him achieve with Ginny. Plus it strikes me as a bit cliché to have Harry end up not with someone we'd seen fight at his side, but with the girl who, in essence, waited for him back home (not necessarily passively waiting, but waiting nonetheless).
- Remus and Tonks. Their courtship was offstage, their marriage was offstage, the birth of their child was offstage, and they died offstage. So what, exactly, was the point of any of it? Just killing Lupin or Tonks would have been enough; there was no need to directly parallel Harry's past by making a baby an orphan, and I believe seeing one spouse grieving over the other—especially if it had been Remus who died—would have been enough to send Harry up to the Pensieve in and of itself. It struck me as overkill. No pun intended.
- Hedwig's death. She died not trying to help Harry, but because she was stuck in her cage? Yeah, I thought that sucked.
- Loose ends. I needed a better accounting of who survived the final battle. For example, we never find out what happened to Neville's rockin' grandmother, Professor Trelawney, or the injured Lavender after she's saved from Fenrir.
- The entirety of Slytherin taking off. I didn't like that part at all; I can't believe there weren't one or two who were willing to stay and fight with the rest of the school. After all, it is the house that produced Snape and Slughorn, so we know Slytherins can be decent, principled human beings. It just bugged me.
- The epilogue. I'm sorry, but to me it read like a piece of fanfic. I mean, we skip ahead nineteen years to find out... what, how many kids were had and their names? Nothing about any of their chosen professions? No word on what any of their friends (aside from Neville) ended up doing? Myself, I thought the final chapter wrapped things up really well: the trio together, and Harry ready for a little less excitement in his life. To me, that was all the happy ending any of us really needed. The rest could have been left to our imaginations.
(in the interest of full disclosure, I should add that I've been aware of some of the intense online fighting between fans of various pairings, a battle JKR was aware of added more than a little fuel to by saying that those who imagined any pairing other than the ones JKR thought were "obvious" (ie Ron/Hermione and Harry/Ginny) were a bit "delusional." So part of me can't help but feel she was trying, with that epilogue, to have the final say in that regard when she could have instead easily made all of her fans happy by leaving the character's futures unwritten. Which, if nothing else, demonstrates her complete lack of understanding of how fanfiction really works. )
That's all I've got for now, although I'm sure I'll chime in with other stuff as we go along...
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