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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Jul 23, 2007 10:52:04 GMT -5
Spoilers for the Whole BookSome random thoughts, tossed off in no particular order... Things I liked/loved: - Lots and lots of Trio time. It made me very, very happy that this book spent so much time on Harry, Hermione and Ron and their amazing friendship.
- Neville, McGonagall, Luna, and Molly Weasley, who rocked hardcore. Especially Neville, proving how true a Gryffindor he really was.
- Snape. I never believed he'd gone dark side on us, and the revelation that the doe guiding Harry had been his Patronus just about killed me.
- Percy, who sucked it up, admitted he'd been an idiot and a prat, and showed up in time to fight the good fight. Another true Gryffindor.
- Dudley shaking Harry's hand. That gesture was just plain cool.
- Narcissa, for placing family over power.
- Dobby and Kreacher. Ultimately they both demonstrated a nobility and humanity several of the humans we met over the series were sorely lacking in (Bellatrix, I'm looking at you).
- Hermione being right about treating house elves with respect. Frankly, I'm curious to see how the next two movies play out now, as they've completely cut out all of Hermione's S.P.E.W. storyline so far.
- Hermione in general, for proving she was indeed the cleverest witch of her age, for doing what was right instead of what was easy in choosing to stay with Harry, for not breaking under Bellatrix's torture, and for being human enough to remain pissed at Ron for a while and keep stubbornly sticking to her Scully-like reliance on facts—'cause without those flaws, she'd have ended up seeming a little too perfect.
- Ron, for coming back. And for finally achieving at least a tablespoon of emotional maturity.
- Harry, for being Harry.
Things I had issues with: - Harry and Ginny. I'm with Liz on this; JKR never really showed us why they were drawn to each other (outside of teenage hormones), let alone any reason they'd end up spending their lives together. Hell, he bonded with Luna on a much more significant level than we ever saw him achieve with Ginny. Plus it strikes me as a bit cliché to have Harry end up not with someone we'd seen fight at his side, but with the girl who, in essence, waited for him back home (not necessarily passively waiting, but waiting nonetheless).
- Remus and Tonks. Their courtship was offstage, their marriage was offstage, the birth of their child was offstage, and they died offstage. So what, exactly, was the point of any of it? Just killing Lupin or Tonks would have been enough; there was no need to directly parallel Harry's past by making a baby an orphan, and I believe seeing one spouse grieving over the other—especially if it had been Remus who died—would have been enough to send Harry up to the Pensieve in and of itself. It struck me as overkill. No pun intended.
- Hedwig's death. She died not trying to help Harry, but because she was stuck in her cage? Yeah, I thought that sucked.
- Loose ends. I needed a better accounting of who survived the final battle. For example, we never find out what happened to Neville's rockin' grandmother, Professor Trelawney, or the injured Lavender after she's saved from Fenrir.
- The entirety of Slytherin taking off. I didn't like that part at all; I can't believe there weren't one or two who were willing to stay and fight with the rest of the school. After all, it is the house that produced Snape and Slughorn, so we know Slytherins can be decent, principled human beings. It just bugged me.
- The epilogue. I'm sorry, but to me it read like a piece of fanfic. I mean, we skip ahead nineteen years to find out... what, how many kids were had and their names? Nothing about any of their chosen professions? No word on what any of their friends (aside from Neville) ended up doing? Myself, I thought the final chapter wrapped things up really well: the trio together, and Harry ready for a little less excitement in his life. To me, that was all the happy ending any of us really needed. The rest could have been left to our imaginations.
(in the interest of full disclosure, I should add that I've been aware of some of the intense online fighting between fans of various pairings, a battle JKR was aware of added more than a little fuel to by saying that those who imagined any pairing other than the ones JKR thought were "obvious" (ie Ron/Hermione and Harry/Ginny) were a bit "delusional." So part of me can't help but feel she was trying, with that epilogue, to have the final say in that regard when she could have instead easily made all of her fans happy by leaving the character's futures unwritten. Which, if nothing else, demonstrates her complete lack of understanding of how fanfiction really works. )
That's all I've got for now, although I'm sure I'll chime in with other stuff as we go along... Spoilers for the Whole BookI loved what Narcissa did, again keeping with the theme of the power of love. Dobby and Kreacher, and the goblin Griphook also made me think that there was going to be more about changing attitudes in the wizarding world as a result of the war and such. Of course, since it didn't really go anywhere, it probably won't matter so much that house elf plot was mostly cut out of the movies. Oh, yeah. Neville's grandmother was awesome. I also thought the whole of Slytherin refusing to fight was odd. Seemed like we were back in book one when everything was so black and white. I think I would have been fine without the epilogue, and what happened next left to everyone's imaginations (or another series of books). But since there was an epilogue, I'm bothered that it doesn't address the really important things and it really doesn't wrap everything up. I'm also aware of the controversy that's been going on too, so when JK Rowling says that she wants to prevent another author from picking things up, I'm wondering if she means she doesn't want anyone messing with Hermione/Ron and Ginny/Harry. Cause they're supposed to end up together, dammit. I also thought I detected some other hints throughout the book that were directed towards those "delusional people" of the audience, particularly Harry having to explain explicitly that his relationship with Hermione was completely platonic. I might have been reading too much into that though. It all strikes me as really petty. And, incidentally, is the epilogue the "final chapter" she wrote so long ago, or was that supposed to be the last chapter proper of the book?
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Post by Sara on Jul 23, 2007 11:20:54 GMT -5
Spoilers for the Whole BookI loved what Narcissa did, again keeping with the theme of the power of love. Dobby and Kreacher, and the goblin Griphook also made me think that there was going to be more about changing attitudes in the wizarding world as a result of the war and such. Of course, since it didn't really go anywhere, it probably won't matter so much that house elf plot was mostly cut out of the movies. Oh, yeah. Neville's grandmother was awesome. I also thought the whole of Slytherin refusing to fight was odd. Seemed like we were back in book one when everything was so black and white. I think I would have been fine without the epilogue, and what happened next left to everyone's imaginations (or another series of books). But since there was an epilogue, I'm bothered that it doesn't address the really important things and it really doesn't wrap everything up. I'm also aware of the controversy that's been going on too, so when JK Rowling says that she wants to prevent another author from picking things up, I'm wondering if she means she doesn't want anyone messing with Hermione/Ron and Ginny/Harry. Cause they're supposed to end up together, dammit. I also thought I detected some other hints throughout the book that were directed towards those "delusional people" of the audience, particularly Harry having to explain explicitly that his relationship with Hermione was completely platonic. I might have been reading too much into that though. And, incidentally, is the epilogue the "final chapter" she wrote so long ago, or was that supposed to be the last chapter proper of the book? I had that same thought myself. But maybe we're both too suspicious. Or jaded by Joss. I'm honestly not sure if the epilogue is what she's had written all this time. But just knowing she'd already determined what would happen to everyone way back when she was writing the first book does... bother me, I guess, in that it suggests she caused the behavior of the characters to fit in with the plot rather than adapting the plot to better reflect how the characters grew and changed over the years. Which is absolutely her prerogative, of course; I just personally would rather that any writer take the latter approach of the two.
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Post by jeff on Jul 23, 2007 20:17:05 GMT -5
Also anyone else think it was cool that Albus Dumbledore's mother was named Kendra?
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Post by jeff on Jul 23, 2007 20:29:25 GMT -5
Chapter 23 spoiler below
The scene in Malfoy Manor was a great read. Finding Luna, Ollivander, and Griphook.
I like that the Eye in the Mirror was not Dumbledore. I for one would have been dissapointed if she brought him back, sort of like caving to the pressure of everyone that was upset over his death.
I remember a fan asking JKR in one of her question and answer sessions if the bartender at the Hogs Head bar was Aberforth. I believe her answer was "that is an interesting Idea." She was not going to give anything away obviously, but it was interesting that people thought he was.
You know under Voldermort I have to say I hate Greyback about as strong as Bellatrix. He was just a vicious character.
Hermione having the CRUCIO spell used on her was a rough part. Ron was going crazy. I was proud of Hermione for her bravery and courage.
I thought Wormtails death was a cop out. I did not like the way he died.
oh and DOBBY RULES, the fact that he saved Harry as his last act was a great testimony to him. He will be missed.
JKR killed a few characters that I was not expecting her to.
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Post by jeff on Jul 23, 2007 20:59:45 GMT -5
Chapter 24 - 25 Spoiler belowI did not like Voldermorts visit to Dumbledores tomb. That was a disturbing act to disturb a final resting place. Very disturbing. I did not like it at all. I loved the entire chapter of Gringotts. It was a great read. I felt bad for Hermione having to be Bellatrix. Especially after she was tortured by her. The spell in the vault was ingenious. making things duplicate if touched. I thought that was brilliant. Scary but brilliant. The Dragon. I thought for a moment she was going to bring back the dragon from GoF.
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Post by jeff on Jul 23, 2007 21:14:48 GMT -5
Chapter 29 -30 Spoilers below
I loved every bit of Neville that I could get in this book. He has blossomed more than any other student. He and Ginny taking over the D.A. and standing up to the teachers.
"The things is it helps when you stand up to them.It gives everyone hope, I noticed it when you used to do it harry."
Neville "gets" the Room of requirement. I really enjoyed them getting back to Hogwarts. I knew we were not going to get much of the school but I am glad a lot of action took place there at the end of the book. It really was only fitting.
I did not get near enough Prof. McGonagall in this book.
McGonagall, Sprout and Flitwick all going after Snape. That was classic!
After 6 books its about time Percy came to his senses!
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Post by jeff on Jul 23, 2007 21:27:17 GMT -5
Chapter 31 Spoilers
The Battle of Hogwarts! That was the best chapter I think I have read in the entire series!
Hermione and Ron's kiss. Perfect (except for the timing) which also was a perfect time for them to kiss.
Fred's death broke my heart more than any others in the book. The way JKR wrote his death was heartbreaking. "the ghost of his last laugh still etched upon his face."
I wonder if this was the chapter that made her cry. She said she broke down in tears after one of the last few chapters in the book. I always loved the twins. Out of all the Weasleys I thought they had the least chance of Dying. They were always so much fun to read I hated that it happened but it was written beautifully.
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Post by jeff on Jul 23, 2007 21:33:29 GMT -5
Chapter 32 - 33
Snapes death was not shocking to me. I was holding out that he was actually good. I am glad she did that.
I loved watching his story unfold in the Pensieve. That was great, his love for Lily was strong. So strong he was willing to help Harry, who I don't think he ever really liked because he reminded him so much of James Potter.
Also that Petunia wanted to be a witch. That suprised me. She wrote a letter to Dumbledore. I was shocked at that.
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Post by jeff on Jul 23, 2007 21:47:56 GMT -5
End of Book Spoilers
I figured as much as well on the whole Harry is a Horcrux story.
But he walking to his supposed death with his "Family" was great.
Neville coming through again. Standing up to Voldermort. This was the same kid that lost Trevor and couldn't remember what is rememberall was supposed to help him remember. I really liked his character.
Molly Weasley ROCKS!!!!!!!!!!! I thought she would let Neville or Hermione kill Bellatrix for what she did to them. But to be honest I was glad she let Molly do it. For so long Molly was looked upon as a mother in the books, not a witch.
Always at home, cooking, knitting, cleaning, worrying about everyone's safety. To have her come out and show her witchery was OUTSTANDING! To show when it comes to her family she will do what is necassary to protect them, was wonderfully written.
Harry and Voldermorts final battle was fantastic. I was satisfied with the ending of the book.
The epilogue for me just opened doors for more stories in so many ways. For everyone. Potters, Weasleys, Hogwarts. I just don't see her being through. Let me rephrase. She herself may be through, but I could see her handing the reigns of the new generation stories over to someone else, with the old generation there as support.
Sort of like George Lucas did with Star Wars. He has final say on plot and main characters. Who lives/ who dies and such.
She could go that route and let others tell the stories of the next generation, and still have final say on the main characters of her stories.
I hope she does go this route, because there are tons of stories left to tell. Many many more.
I have already started re-reading the Sorcerer's Stone. after 30 pages I have already found things I forgot about. I think I shall enjoy this re-reading of the HP books.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Jul 24, 2007 7:27:22 GMT -5
Chapter 32 - 33Snapes death was not shocking to me. I was holding out that he was actually good. I am glad she did that. I loved watching his story unfold in the Pensieve. That was great, his love for Lily was strong. So strong he was willing to help Harry, who I don't think he ever really liked because he reminded him so much of James Potter. Also that Petunia wanted to be a witch. That suprised me. She wrote a letter to Dumbledore. I was shocked at that. I loved seeing Snapes last thoughts. They really tied a lot of things together. As far as Petunia, I wouldn't have guessed that she would have written a letter to Dumbledore, but she was definitely jealous of Lily all the way back in the first book. I almost thought from what we saw in the pensieve that she also had a crush on Snape, but I guess not.
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Post by Laura on Jul 24, 2007 10:57:36 GMT -5
Chapter 29 -30 Spoilers belowI loved every bit of Neville that I could get in this book. He has blossomed more than any other student. He and Ginny taking over the D.A. and standing up to the teachers. "The things is it helps when you stand up to them.It gives everyone hope, I noticed it when you used to do it harry." Neville "gets" the Room of requirement. I really enjoyed them getting back to Hogwarts. I knew we were not going to get much of the school but I am glad a lot of action took place there at the end of the book. It really was only fitting. I did not get near enough Prof. McGonagall in this book. McGonagall, Sprout and Flitwick all going after Snape. That was classic! After 6 books its about time Percy came to his senses! Spoilers for end of Book
Okay, maybe I missed it -- how did Neville get the sword of Gryfindore if the goblin took it back at Gringotts?[/font]
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Post by Queen E on Jul 24, 2007 12:45:38 GMT -5
Chapter 29 -30 Spoilers belowI loved every bit of Neville that I could get in this book. He has blossomed more than any other student. He and Ginny taking over the D.A. and standing up to the teachers. "The things is it helps when you stand up to them.It gives everyone hope, I noticed it when you used to do it harry." Neville "gets" the Room of requirement. I really enjoyed them getting back to Hogwarts. I knew we were not going to get much of the school but I am glad a lot of action took place there at the end of the book. It really was only fitting. I did not get near enough Prof. McGonagall in this book. McGonagall, Sprout and Flitwick all going after Snape. That was classic! After 6 books its about time Percy came to his senses! Spoilers for end of Book
Okay, maybe I missed it -- how did Neville get the sword of Gryfindore if the goblin took it back at Gringotts?[/font][/quote] Spoilers for end of BookWhen Voldemort summoned the Sorting Hat, he thrust it on Neville's head and made it burn. But, Harry cast a charm to protect Neville, and the hat fell off, and there was a gleam of silver peeking out, which was Gryffindor's sword. It's the same as what happened when Harry was in the Chamber of Secrets.
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Post by S'ewing S'cubie on Jul 24, 2007 17:19:25 GMT -5
JKR never mentioned if Harry, Ron and Hermione ever went back to Hogwarts to complete their seventh year.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Jul 24, 2007 18:55:43 GMT -5
JKR never mentioned if Harry, Ron and Hermione ever went back to Hogwarts to complete their seventh year. True. Whether the students actually went to school or stayed away, I'd say that all of them are pretty much missing a year.
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Post by KMInfinity on Jul 24, 2007 23:10:31 GMT -5
End of Book SpoilersI loved the book. Doing a list like Sara's~ Stuff I loved - The battle scenes, especially the battle of Hogwarts. JKR had a nice touch with pacing, events, individual closeups - overall excellent talent at writing epic scenes.
- The scene where Harry hooks up with Neville, and he discovers how valiant they've all been, and how they wanted so much to support him - made me teary. For a bit I feared JKR was going to veer in a different direction. I didn't want Harry to go it alone anymore and be the "lone ranger" type hero. So I was really happy when Harry accepted the whole "rallying 'round" thing.
- The really intricate plotting with the Elder wand issues.
- The bond between our trio.
- Dobby's role.
- Snape's redemption. (I knew he wasn't evil-evil.)
- I know it was a little didactic, but I loved the King's Cross chapter, with Dumbledore explaining everything. I especially liked his comment when Harry asked if this was all in his head. "Of course it is happening in your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean it isn't real?"
- Lots more stuff I can't think of at the moment.
Stuff I didn't like so much - I didn't like the epilogue at all. It rattled on like some bad Lifetime movie cliche. The only thing that rang true was Harry's moment with Albus worrying about being a Slytherin.
- I was a bit unnerved with the times Harry and Ginny and Ron used magic on innocent bystanders to achieve a goal. The breakin at Gringotts stands out.
- I know it would have been difficult, but I'd have liked JKR to have given us more about James, Lily, Snape, etc. I'm thinking James may have been a jerk.
- I never quite bought into the Death Eaters' loyalty to Voldemort. I think JKR needed to justify that whole movement better. At Wolfram and Hart, evil worked together in pursuit of profit. Voldmort seemed so recklessly rotten to his supporters I couldn't believe in their behavior much. Especially the Malfoys.
- I could like a different title better. The Deathly Hallows were a bit a misdirection in fact.
I don't quite understand the events in the chapter The Forest Again. Harry sacrificed himself. Voldemort killed him, and Harry didn't even defend himself. "Harry as Horcrux" died - killing another part of Voldmort's soul. Did Harry actually die, then resurrect? How did this happen? Or did the Horcrux part die only, or did something else happen I don't understand? If I reread all of them in order, closer together in time, I'm wondering if I'll note minor inconsistencies and plotting problems or if I'll be amazed at the foreshadowing and coherence of the whole tapestry of the story.
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