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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Nov 19, 2011 0:59:51 GMT -5
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Post by Karen on Nov 21, 2011 12:07:58 GMT -5
I liked this: (commenting on how a General Assembly was scheduled, and then no one showed up) "My Greek friend looked at me and I looked at her and we both instantly realized the other was thinking the same thing: “Why are we so complacent? Why is it that every time we see something like this happening, we just mutter things and go home?” – though I think the way we put it was more like, “You know something? Fuck this shit. They advertised a general assembly. Let’s hold one.”" And "After so many years of vain attempts to revive the fervor of the Global Justice Movement, and constantly falling flat, I found myself, like Dina, asking “what did we actually do right?” And Over and over she heard the same story: “I did everything I was supposed to! I worked hard, studied hard, got into college. Now I’m unemployed, with no prospects, and $50 to $80,000.00 in debt.” "These were kids who played by the rules, and were rewarded by a future of constant harassment, of being told they were worthless deadbeats by agents of those very financial institutions who—after having spectacularly failed to play by the rules, and crashing the world economy as a result, were saved and coddled by the government in all the ways that ordinary Americans such as themselves, equally spectacularly, were not." "It is almost impossible to convince the average American that a truly democratic society would be possible. One can only show them." "So the social scientist in me has to ask: Why? Why now? Why did it actually work?" On Obama and the high hopes of his presidency: "Others suggest he is a well-meaning progressive whose hands are tied; or, alternately, blame progressives for not having mobilized to provide sufficient pressure to his Left. The latter seem to forget the way the grassroots activist groups created during the campaign, which were expected to endure afterwards for just this purpose, were rapidly dismantled once Obama was in power and handing the economic reigns of the US over to the very people (Geithner, Bernanke, Summers) responsible for the crisis, or how liberal groups that actually try to mount campaigns against such policies are regularly threatened with defunding by White-House friendly NGOs." "If Occupy Wall Street has spread to every city in America, it’s because our financial overlords have brought us to such a pass that anarchists, pagan priestesses, and tree-sitters are about the only Americans left still holding out for the idea that a genuinely democratic society might be possible." Good article - thanks Liz!
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Post by Karen on Nov 21, 2011 12:23:34 GMT -5
On a lighter note, OWS Clowns and Spanish Matador attempt to ride the Wall Street Bull vs NYPD:
Too funny!
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Nov 21, 2011 21:38:56 GMT -5
I liked this: (commenting on how a General Assembly was scheduled, and then no one showed up) "My Greek friend looked at me and I looked at her and we both instantly realized the other was thinking the same thing: “Why are we so complacent? Why is it that every time we see something like this happening, we just mutter things and go home?” – though I think the way we put it was more like, “You know something? Fuck this shit. They advertised a general assembly. Let’s hold one.”" And "After so many years of vain attempts to revive the fervor of the Global Justice Movement, and constantly falling flat, I found myself, like Dina, asking “what did we actually do right?” And Over and over she heard the same story: “I did everything I was supposed to! I worked hard, studied hard, got into college. Now I’m unemployed, with no prospects, and $50 to $80,000.00 in debt.” "These were kids who played by the rules, and were rewarded by a future of constant harassment, of being told they were worthless deadbeats by agents of those very financial institutions who—after having spectacularly failed to play by the rules, and crashing the world economy as a result, were saved and coddled by the government in all the ways that ordinary Americans such as themselves, equally spectacularly, were not." "It is almost impossible to convince the average American that a truly democratic society would be possible. One can only show them." "So the social scientist in me has to ask: Why? Why now? Why did it actually work?" On Obama and the high hopes of his presidency: "Others suggest he is a well-meaning progressive whose hands are tied; or, alternately, blame progressives for not having mobilized to provide sufficient pressure to his Left. The latter seem to forget the way the grassroots activist groups created during the campaign, which were expected to endure afterwards for just this purpose, were rapidly dismantled once Obama was in power and handing the economic reigns of the US over to the very people (Geithner, Bernanke, Summers) responsible for the crisis, or how liberal groups that actually try to mount campaigns against such policies are regularly threatened with defunding by White-House friendly NGOs." "If Occupy Wall Street has spread to every city in America, it’s because our financial overlords have brought us to such a pass that anarchists, pagan priestesses, and tree-sitters are about the only Americans left still holding out for the idea that a genuinely democratic society might be possible." Good article - thanks Liz! *nods* The self organization and social structure of the movement and reactions to it strike me as very similar that my experiences in the Band in college. This article was likewise very familiar to me. His comments about Obama, that the base of the movement is the same as the base of his campaign during the election, and that this subsequent disappointment when Obama's presidency didn't live up to his campaign all kind of resonate with me. I'm not disappointed per se; he's done about as well as I expected him to do. But I did feel at the time that there was a possibility that more could have happened. And now, I don't think I'll believe any politician's campaign promises ever again. If Obama couldn't do it, I don't think anyone can. Also, in case anybody has any more time than I do at the moment. www.occupytheboardroom.org/
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Post by Queen E on Nov 21, 2011 22:25:23 GMT -5
I'm not disappointed in Obama. I think he did the best he could after being handed a poor hand. Furthermore, I think that the culture of corruption are now so entrenched in Washington that the whole thing seems completely inert. I respect him for his hope that he could change any of that, and while I don't like some of the compromises he's had to make (that didn't help anyway), I put the blame for that on the culture of Washington.
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Post by Queen E on Nov 21, 2011 22:26:38 GMT -5
Also: Seriously, Newt? You want to REPEAL CHILD LABOR LAWS?
So if we're going back to the Gilded Age of robber barons and rampant poverty, does that mean I have to start wearing a corset and not voting?
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Nov 21, 2011 23:31:09 GMT -5
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Post by Karen on Nov 26, 2011 12:31:07 GMT -5
Matt Taibbi if The Rolling Stone is the best investigative journalist of our time. Of course, if you do read him, you'll be soon out on the streets protesting yourself. His recent article on nuclear power in the US was a real eye-opener.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Dec 5, 2011 20:41:46 GMT -5
2 interesting links regarding the Occupy Movement. www.jumbotale.com/2011/12/get-beyond-the-bias/www.nytimes.com/2011/11/22/nyregion/nypd-stops-reporters-with-badges-and-fists.html?_r=1This is starting to look more and more like the American Revolution Redux. I'm really not sure where this is going to go; and actual revolutionary war/civil war is going to be devastating in a lot of ways, but this crisis under the surface we've been dealing with for the past however many decades/centuries is not much better. Also, I've been thinking more and more that the current politico-socio-economic situation reads very much like an abusive relationship. The discussion in the political sphere about not doing anything that will "hurt the economy," even if said things hurt ourselves and those around us, criticizing those who do protest for also enjoying all good things the modern American lifestyle has to offer ~ don't complain about your SO beating you because they're a good provider. This utter dependency and difficulty finding a better way to live ~ the difficulty victims of abuse have in leaving their abusers. I've even seen and heard off hand comments about highly questionable War on Terror measures along the lines of "there must be a good reason for it," and about the some of the more high profile police actions against the occupy movement along the lines of "they must have deserved it." Also, and maybe it's just also this stuff I've been hearing about police brutality, but the cops patrolling the library here are really freaking me out and making me feel less secure, not more.
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Post by Karen on Dec 6, 2011 10:28:12 GMT -5
Also: Seriously, Newt? You want to REPEAL CHILD LABOR LAWS? So if we're going back to the Gilded Age of robber barons and rampant poverty, does that mean I have to start wearing a corset and not voting? Yeah, he wants to bring back orphanages, too. Because that worked so well. With all the news about child sexual abuse coming out at the highest levels among people in positions of power, who in their right minds would want to give the predators out there another avenue to satisfy this most evil of perversions? He also spreads fear concerning the Middle East which buys into people's fears about Armageddon. Some of his old ads are downright scary. And people lap that shit up, even from a guy who served his first wife divorce papers while she was undergoing cancer treatments.
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Post by Karen on Dec 6, 2011 10:29:33 GMT -5
2 interesting links regarding the Occupy Movement. www.jumbotale.com/2011/12/get-beyond-the-bias/www.nytimes.com/2011/11/22/nyregion/nypd-stops-reporters-with-badges-and-fists.html?_r=1This is starting to look more and more like the American Revolution Redux. I'm really not sure where this is going to go; and actual revolutionary war/civil war is going to be devastating in a lot of ways, but this crisis under the surface we've been dealing with for the past however many decades/centuries is not much better. Also, I've been thinking more and more that the current politico-socio-economic situation reads very much like an abusive relationship. The discussion in the political sphere about not doing anything that will "hurt the economy," even if said things hurt ourselves and those around us, criticizing those who do protest for also enjoying all good things the modern American lifestyle has to offer ~ don't complain about your SO beating you because they're a good provider. This utter dependency and difficulty finding a better way to live ~ the difficulty victims of abuse have in leaving their abusers. I've even seen and heard off hand comments about highly questionable War on Terror measures along the lines of "there must be a good reason for it," and about the some of the more high profile police actions against the occupy movement along the lines of "they must have deserved it." Also, and maybe it's just also this stuff I've been hearing about police brutality, but the cops patrolling the library here are really freaking me out and making me feel less secure, not more. Our civil police forces, especially in big cities, are being militarized. Don't freak out, though. Peace and Love will win the day. ETA: I agree with your metaphor. Did you see "V"? It's how those people were ruled. With fear and intimidation. Much like an abusive partner. I have people say to me that if you are down on your luck - unemployed, etc., it's because of the choices you have made - took the wrong courses in school, didn't save enough money for hard times, etc. Too bad for you. You must not be living right. Idiots!
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Post by Queen E on Dec 6, 2011 18:34:41 GMT -5
2 interesting links regarding the Occupy Movement. www.jumbotale.com/2011/12/get-beyond-the-bias/www.nytimes.com/2011/11/22/nyregion/nypd-stops-reporters-with-badges-and-fists.html?_r=1This is starting to look more and more like the American Revolution Redux. I'm really not sure where this is going to go; and actual revolutionary war/civil war is going to be devastating in a lot of ways, but this crisis under the surface we've been dealing with for the past however many decades/centuries is not much better. Also, I've been thinking more and more that the current politico-socio-economic situation reads very much like an abusive relationship. The discussion in the political sphere about not doing anything that will "hurt the economy," even if said things hurt ourselves and those around us, criticizing those who do protest for also enjoying all good things the modern American lifestyle has to offer ~ don't complain about your SO beating you because they're a good provider. This utter dependency and difficulty finding a better way to live ~ the difficulty victims of abuse have in leaving their abusers. I've even seen and heard off hand comments about highly questionable War on Terror measures along the lines of "there must be a good reason for it," and about the some of the more high profile police actions against the occupy movement along the lines of "they must have deserved it." Also, and maybe it's just also this stuff I've been hearing about police brutality, but the cops patrolling the library here are really freaking me out and making me feel less secure, not more. Our civil police forces, especially in big cities, are being militarized. Don't freak out, though. Peace and Love will win the day. ETA: I agree with your metaphor. Did you see "V"? It's how those people were ruled. With fear and intimidation. Much like an abusive partner. I have people say to me that if you are down on your luck - unemployed, etc., it's because of the choices you have made - took the wrong courses in school, didn't save enough money for hard times, etc. Too bad for you. You must not be living right. Idiots! Word. I mean, clearly, I'VE been making all the wrong choices, and that's why I'm unemployed. It has nothing to do with the economy and university cutbacks. I suppose, in theory, I could get a job working fast food, but then would come the inevitable question: "So, you have a doctorate? Why do you want this job?" Even I can't come up with the level of bullshit that would convince anyone that it's my choice. It was hard enough to find summer fast food jobs, and that was just when I was in college.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Dec 6, 2011 22:33:20 GMT -5
2 interesting links regarding the Occupy Movement. www.jumbotale.com/2011/12/get-beyond-the-bias/www.nytimes.com/2011/11/22/nyregion/nypd-stops-reporters-with-badges-and-fists.html?_r=1This is starting to look more and more like the American Revolution Redux. I'm really not sure where this is going to go; and actual revolutionary war/civil war is going to be devastating in a lot of ways, but this crisis under the surface we've been dealing with for the past however many decades/centuries is not much better. Also, I've been thinking more and more that the current politico-socio-economic situation reads very much like an abusive relationship. The discussion in the political sphere about not doing anything that will "hurt the economy," even if said things hurt ourselves and those around us, criticizing those who do protest for also enjoying all good things the modern American lifestyle has to offer ~ don't complain about your SO beating you because they're a good provider. This utter dependency and difficulty finding a better way to live ~ the difficulty victims of abuse have in leaving their abusers. I've even seen and heard off hand comments about highly questionable War on Terror measures along the lines of "there must be a good reason for it," and about the some of the more high profile police actions against the occupy movement along the lines of "they must have deserved it." Also, and maybe it's just also this stuff I've been hearing about police brutality, but the cops patrolling the library here are really freaking me out and making me feel less secure, not more. Our civil police forces, especially in big cities, are being militarized. Don't freak out, though. Peace and Love will win the day. ETA: I agree with your metaphor. Did you see "V"? It's how those people were ruled. With fear and intimidation. Much like an abusive partner. I have people say to me that if you are down on your luck - unemployed, etc., it's because of the choices you have made - took the wrong courses in school, didn't save enough money for hard times, etc. Too bad for you. You must not be living right. Idiots! Yes, I saw the article you tweeted about the militarization of the police. Very intriguing, though it didn't get enough into the why of it for my taste. There's all these trends that started happening (or had a pivotal moment/inflection point) right before I was born; it's really uncanny and it's freaking me out. I wonder if it can all be tied to the US peaking in oil production or if that's reaching. Hmm. No, I've not seen V yet. It's on my very long list of must see tv.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Dec 6, 2011 23:18:02 GMT -5
Our civil police forces, especially in big cities, are being militarized. Don't freak out, though. Peace and Love will win the day. ETA: I agree with your metaphor. Did you see "V"? It's how those people were ruled. With fear and intimidation. Much like an abusive partner. I have people say to me that if you are down on your luck - unemployed, etc., it's because of the choices you have made - took the wrong courses in school, didn't save enough money for hard times, etc. Too bad for you. You must not be living right. Idiots! Word. I mean, clearly, I'VE been making all the wrong choices, and that's why I'm unemployed. It has nothing to do with the economy and university cutbacks. I suppose, in theory, I could get a job working fast food, but then would come the inevitable question: "So, you have a doctorate? Why do you want this job?" Even I can't come up with the level of bullshit that would convince anyone that it's my choice. It was hard enough to find summer fast food jobs, and that was just when I was in college.
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Post by Karen on Dec 6, 2011 23:57:08 GMT -5
Our civil police forces, especially in big cities, are being militarized. Don't freak out, though. Peace and Love will win the day. ETA: I agree with your metaphor. Did you see "V"? It's how those people were ruled. With fear and intimidation. Much like an abusive partner. I have people say to me that if you are down on your luck - unemployed, etc., it's because of the choices you have made - took the wrong courses in school, didn't save enough money for hard times, etc. Too bad for you. You must not be living right. Idiots! Yes, I saw the article you tweeted about the militarization of the police. Very intriguing, though it didn't get enough into the why of it for my taste. There's all these trends that started happening (or had a pivotal moment/inflection point) right before I was born; it's really uncanny and it's freaking me out. I wonder if it can all be tied to the US peaking in oil production or if that's reaching. Hmm. No, I've not seen V yet. It's on my very long list of must see tv. The Why of the militarization of the police? I would follow the money. People are making a lot of money on selling weapons, and housing prisoners. Yeah - and the peak in oil production is part of it, because things are going to get dicey when that happens..if it hasn't already happened. Plus the population at 7 billion...tipping point and all. Not to mention global warming. Makes me want to find a nice piece of land to buy in a warmer climate, with no hurricanes, floods, fires, plenty of water and far from people and nuclear power plants. Interesting - the only way out of this mess is for most of us to act like lemmings and fling ourselves off the cliff before we take it all down, so that the human race can survive..along with the rest of the animals and plants on the planet. Or we can all come to our senses and quit consuming in mass quantities and come together as a race and save it all. We need a leader...or many leaders to turn the tide. OWS could solidify its message. We need a hero! But I don't see it happening. People do not want to face it. What I see happening among the people in denial are 2 things. Those that refuse to discuss it because it scares the shit out of them and they feel they can't change things anyway and if things changed then there would be chaos and that the people in control wouldn't let them change it anyway, and those are waiting for things to collapse and for God to come save them. I read book about global warming that was full of dicey science that denied that people were causing climate change and actually ended with the sentence - "I could be wrong about everything, but that would be okay because I might be wrong, but God is merciful.' or words to that effect. In other words, God won't let us destroy ourselves. That sentence at the very end pretty much negated any argument he had to offer.
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