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Post by William the Bloody on Mar 7, 2004 20:02:29 GMT -5
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Post by Rachael on Mar 7, 2004 21:06:08 GMT -5
This is something that I've noted about all Joss Whedon shows, for years now - when someone starts getting a little too full of themselves, preachy, or just soliloquizing a little too much, something (funny, usually) happens to stop them.
Like: Spike getting zapped by the Initiative mid-Buffy-rant; Buffy falling into a grave while yelling at Angel; corpses just running off while Xander's using a long-winded threat; corpse's head getting knocked off during a similar threat; at least one other grave-falling incident; Dawn zapping Xander while Buffy's voice is reading the good-bye note. . .the list goes on and on.
I've always liked that about the 'verse - no one gets to get all that melodramatic for very long.
And, in this case, it punctuated, for me, the fact that Angel was wrong. Sometimes, the human isn't worth saving. Given the choice between Illyria and Knox (now, not two weeks ago), I'd choose Illyria in a heartbeat. What she did, she did without knowledge of who or what she was hurting. Knox did what he did with full knowledge.
He wasn't worth saving - which is why Angel seems not exactly upset by his death - a little irritated by the interruption, though.
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Post by Rachael on Mar 7, 2004 21:07:54 GMT -5
Great review, Rae - but you've made me cry again. I'm just not ready to let her go yet. And I'm still in your camp - she's really gone, so we need to let her go.
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Post by Lurking Rae on Mar 7, 2004 21:15:14 GMT -5
Great review, Rae - but you've made me cry again. I'm just not ready to let her go yet. And I'm still in your camp - she's really gone, so we need to let her go. *hugs Rachael* Thanks but sorry to make you cry again...
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Post by Rachael on Mar 7, 2004 21:23:19 GMT -5
*hugs Rachael* Thanks but sorry to make you cry again... It's okay. . .I'm sort of in a place now where the crying makes me feel better, not worse. There's no worse, after all, than what's already been. You know how sometimes crying over a movie or book makes you feel good in the long run? It was kinda like that.
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Ajonah
S'cubie
Spikester
Posts: 57
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Post by Ajonah on Mar 7, 2004 21:23:48 GMT -5
I thank thee for thy insightful words.
I have an inner fight going on.....do i miss Fred more or want Illyria to stay more? Emmm.....Fred is winning at the moment.
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Post by Patti - S'cubie Cutie on Mar 7, 2004 22:00:59 GMT -5
Rae, hi lurky girl.
As I didn't really get to express to you before, I enjoyed your review so much. Except for the 'goneness' of it, which I'm not ready to accept. Like you I get all teary every time I watch the end of the episode - from Wesley's lines to Fred disappearing out of sight.
I'm just going to quote the heck out of you here...because these are such good insights I think.
"In that opening scene, Illyria says to Wes, “You seek to save what’s rotted through.” In a way, that applies to the setup for this entire season. The Gang has been seeking to use W&H for good; to save it from being an evil entity. Only, there is no saving W&H. It’s rotted through right to the core, the Senior Partners. And that rot has spread into the Gang. "
I'm thinking though that it's not too late. Wesley lay in a hospital bed 2 seasons ago and it looked like he was irretrievably parted from the Gang, but he wasn't. Gunn is in that bed now, but the rotten place has been opened up and cut away now, literally.
I was especially impressed by the following because I agree with you completely yet again, I think there is a further message.
"The direction on the plane scene is fabulous, especially if you notice the differences between this episode and the previous episode. The last time Angel and Spike were on the plane together, they sat side by side. They were in sync with each other. Both very focused on one goal, saving Fred. This week, they no longer sit side by side. Spike is behind Angel, trying to drown his feelings and talking. Angel, on the other hand, sits with his back to him and quiet. The scene so perfectly illustrates how different people deal with grief and how losing her has already fractured the group that was so strong, so together in their efforts to save her. "
I do think this is an illustration of their different ways of dealing, but I don't think they are pulled apart ...Spike and Angel are pulled together by the end - fighting (not winning, but still) in synch together.
I always enjoy your reviews Rae - you always find things that I never saw...or at least I didn't see the signifcance til you point it out to me.
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Post by makd guesting on Mar 7, 2004 22:04:34 GMT -5
Hi, Rae
Wonderful review, Rae-girl; just terrific!
I love the way you interspersed screencaps and text, and, the lyrics to the ending song....um...well....the thing is....by the time I read the last line of lyrics, I was crying....
I don't do this much when reading. Your words moved me, Rae. Thank you...
I really don't have much to add to this discussion; seems we talked about the episode so much already. There is one thing - which we've all been saying - Team Angel needs it's heart; Fred was their heart....We are all so worried about what will happen next, and if Fred will be resurrected. And, if she can't be...what will happen with Illyria.
Once again, the Jossman raises standard TV drama to a new level...and keeps us biting our nails....
Damn The WB: not only are we 5 weeks without Angel, we might not have much more Angel. The best show on TV....
arggghhh. pfft. going now. back to grading papers.
Thanks, Rae; your review was excellent!
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makd still guesting
Guest
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Post by makd still guesting on Mar 7, 2004 22:05:46 GMT -5
Rae
One question: Who sang the ending song, and is it available on CD?
thanks
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Post by Rachael on Mar 7, 2004 22:12:58 GMT -5
I thank thee for thy insightful words. I have an inner fight going on.....do i miss Fred more or want Illyria to stay more? Emmm.....Fred is winning at the moment. Illyria CANNOT stay. One way or the other, I'm gonna doubt she's a permanent addition. Of course, as usual, I could very well be mistaken. To me, the only real question is: when Illyria goes, do we get Fred back? Either in an Illyria shell, or else as Fred? Or do we lose 'em both?
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Post by Nan-S'cubie Mascot on Mar 7, 2004 22:25:20 GMT -5
Excellent review, Rae, and your use of pictures is extremely evocative. I never think beyond the words, myself.
I agree with you about the plane scene--very effective dramatization of the difference between the trip out and the trip back, and Angel's mode of coping compared to Spike's. I came to much the same conclusions before I'd read your review and commented on that scene in much the same terms, on the Main Part.
On those things where we differ, it's of the glass half empty/glass half full variety. And only further developments can tell us whether our hopes or our attempt to be resigned is the appropriate and correct response.
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Post by SpringSummers on Mar 7, 2004 23:27:21 GMT -5
Excellent review, Rae, and your use of pictures is extremely evocative. I never think beyond the words, myself. I agree with you about the plane scene--very effective dramatization of the difference between the trip out and the trip back, and Angel's mode of coping compared to Spike's. I came to much the same conclusions before I'd read your review and commented on that scene in much the same terms, on the Main Part. On those things where we differ, it's of the glass half empty/glass half full variety. And only further developments can tell us whether our hopes or our attempt to be resigned is the appropriate and correct response. Yes, wonderful pic selection, and all around nice effort, Rae. You are my sunshine, my only sunshine. You make me happy, 'cause you are Rae . . . You make a really good argument, but I'm still holding on to the idea that Fred might return. Unlike you, I can't come up with much reasoning for that, 'cept I just "think so." I guess it is good I didn't do this week's guest review . . . Nice catch on the "Home" album cover, Sun-Rae.
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Post by Rob on Mar 8, 2004 0:19:13 GMT -5
This is one of my favorite reviews of the year.
First of all, your conclusions about Fred being the heart of the group are absolutely on the mark. She is, without question, the one with the most capability to reach out to others.
Take a heap of Willow's genius and sweet nature, throw in a few cups of Xander's uncanny ability to see people's emotional needs and meet them...and you have Fred.
One thought that strikes me about Gunn: though his killing of Fred's old professor went a long way toward breaking them up, it also SAVED Fred as we knew her. She could never have been the same...sort of like how Willow will never completely be Willow again after killing Warren. You can recover from it, but you're forever changed.
He killed that man because he was afraid to lose Fred...and it was the right thing to do. Gunn went through the killing of his own sister. Compared to that, killing a man who was responsible for Fred's torment is a minor point. Now, though...he blames himself for losing her instead. His sacrifice meant nothing.
It makes me feel terrible for him.
Next thought:
Few comparisons can be made between BtVS Season 7 and this year's Angel...but one big one pops into my head: At nearly the same point in the seasons, the heart of the group is cut out, leaving only emotionally distanced and frightened people. On Buffy, the seeds were sown for their implosion...until circumstances (and Spike showing up in a pinch) forced them back to their senses. Moreover, Xander didn't die. He was merely permanently disfigured...and came back within a week.
Last year it was Spike who helped Buffy pull herself up by the bootstraps. For some reason, I don't see him being able to do it again for the Fang Gang. This time, it's going to have to be someone else...and my money's on Lorne...IF he can pull himself together. I think he can be the temporary glue in Fred's absence.
Again, this is a brilliant and moving review. Thank you, Rae.
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Post by Rachael on Mar 8, 2004 0:28:51 GMT -5
This is one of my favorite reviews of the year. First of all, your conclusions about Fred being the heart of the group are absolutely on the mark. She is, without question, the one with the most capability to reach out to others. Take a heap of Willow's genius and sweet nature, throw in a few cups of Xander's uncanny ability to see people's emotional needs and meet them...and you have Fred. One thought that strikes me about Gunn: though his killing of Fred's old professor went a long way toward breaking them up, it also SAVED Fred as we knew her. She could never have been the same...sort of like how Willow will never completely be Willow again after killing Warren. You can recover from it, but you're forever changed. He killed that man because he was afraid to lose Fred...and it was the right thing to do. Gunn went through the killing of his own sister. Compared to that, killing a man who was responsible for Fred's torment is a minor point. Now, though...he blames himself for losing her instead. His sacrifice meant nothing. It makes me feel terrible for him. Next thought: Few comparisons can be made between BtVS Season 7 and this year's Angel...but one big one pops into my head: At nearly the same point in the seasons, the heart of the group is cut out, leaving only emotionally distanced and frightened people. On Buffy, the seeds were sown for their implosion...until circumstances (and Spike showing up in a pinch) forced them back to their senses. Moreover, Xander didn't die. He was merely permanently disfigured...and came back within a week. Last year it was Spike who helped Buffy pull herself up by the bootstraps. For some reason, I don't see him being able to do it again for the Fang Gang. This time, it's going to have to be someone else...and my money's on Lorne...IF he can pull himself together. I think he can be the temporary glue in Fred's absence. Again, this is a brilliant and moving review. Thank you, Rae. My money's on Lorne, also. He's kinda my only hope right now. No one else has the, um, jeez, empathy, to bring this group back together.
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Post by Cal on Mar 8, 2004 8:51:47 GMT -5
Great review, Rae! Very moving. I am still crying as I write this. I too hope that Fred will return, but I have this awful feeling that you are right and that she truly is gone forever.
This season just keeps getting better and better with each episode. The negative reaction it is getting from some fans mystifies me. This season is really making me "feel" everything that the characters are feeling and that is important to me.
We so need another season! It is going to be impossible to get a satisfactory ending with just 6 new episodes to go.
Again, well done, Rae!
Cal
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