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Post by Sandy - lparish on Sept 9, 2003 13:51:04 GMT -5
...Angel may have indicated he wants to become human again - I have probably seen less than 25% of the AtS eps, so I don't know on that score.... Angel has expressed the desire to become human, but has given it up on at least one occasion. He was made human by a demon whose blood got into his system and *cured* his vampireness. This particular incident has been one of the bones of contention that Angel keeps deciding what is best for Buffy. Uh-huh, Alpha male stuff. This was kind of an accident so the PTB reversed time and he was his vampire self again. He was the only one to remember what had transpired. When he got the Gem of Amarra, he could walk in the sun and be impervious to everything, but of course he smashed that to smithereens, again not talking to Buffy...who got it for him in the first place. |
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Post by Sandy - lparish on Sept 9, 2003 13:55:13 GMT -5
I don't think I remember Angel ever wishing he was human -- at least out loud. It never crossed his mind til the end of Season 1 when Wes deciphered the prophecy, then he started thinking of it. In fact that is partially what the 1st episode of season 2 dealth with. Let me see if at lunch I can find the dialogue from that episode. I don't remember where, but there are wistful references to becoming human in S2. Also, at the end of the ep where the prophecy is deciphered, Angel appears to want to become human. Don't remember exactly how it unfolds. |
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Post by Sandy - lparish on Sept 9, 2003 14:27:38 GMT -5
We've never had any clear indication it's something Spike wants - i.e., I can't really think of any time we've seem him longing to be human. He was able to figure out a soul might help him not hurt Buffy again, so he wanted it. If he does become human this season, it will be something that happens "to him" not something he's been working toward or seeking. He'd have to deal with it, the way he did the chip, and then the surprisingly painful effects of having a soul. I agree. Spike has gone whichever way will do him the most good, up until his final sacrifice. As I look at him now, he has to make a lot of progress before he would be afforded a reward. One article reported, JM saying the fans are getting their snarky Spike back -- but I do hope he has gained some maturity. Another article reported JM as saying Spike was a *dick*. That saddened me. Maybe what JM says depends on his attitude at the time, you know, tired and so on... I really want the writers to pay attention this year and keep things consistent. No more mind numbing jumps for the viewer to make. For example: Dawn and the key business; no more namby-pamby brain farts like that Doctor and the eggs business; and get everybody on the same page if you're going to do something as dramatic as the AR. It's one thing to fan-wank, it's another to screw up and then try to explain it later as with some kind of lame-ass profound, literary, mythical, piled high crap excuse. ...and this Cordy thing, sheesh treat us with the respect we deserve as an intelligent audience and slap us upside the head with a resolution that will rock us to our toes. Ranted enough? I really escalated, didn't mean to, it just spewed. |
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Post by Laura on Sept 9, 2003 15:29:30 GMT -5
<snip. Was the "father will kill the son" prophecy really false? Can Angel be seen as having "killed" Connor? Just something to chew on.
Have to admit, I haven't re-watched S3 in a long time -- maybe it's time to do that, and see if any of these things make more sense. I agree, it does seem to me that Angel has now "killed" his son -- you could also have interpreted his having lost Connor as an infant (as a result of Holtz' desire for revenge) as a form of "killing" his son. |
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Post by Betsy on Sept 9, 2003 15:36:10 GMT -5
I don't remember where, but there are wistful references to becoming human in S2. Also, at the end of the ep where the prophecy is deciphered, Angel appears to want to become human. Don't remember exactly how it unfolds. But that was after finding out about the shanshu prophecy. Has he ever expressed a desire to be human before that? |
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Post by Laura on Sept 9, 2003 15:37:26 GMT -5
I don't think I remember Angel ever wishing he was human -- at least out loud. It never crossed his mind til the end of Season 1 when Wes deciphered the prophecy, then he started thinking of it. In fact that is partially what the 1st episode of season 2 dealth with. Let me see if at lunch I can find the dialogue from that episode.
I don't think that Angel has "given up" on becoming human. I think he's simply recognized that (1) he doesn't want to have happen until he thinks the people he most cares about are either safe themselves or more than able to care for themselves if he ceases to be "super-human" and (2) it's not going to happen until the PTB (whoever they are these days) decide it's time.
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Post by Laura on Sept 9, 2003 15:44:33 GMT -5
But that was after finding out about the shanshu prophecy. Has he ever expressed a desire to be human before that?
I think he very much wanted to be human -- why else would he have had the nightmare about marrying Buffy? It was something that he couldn't have because he wasn't human. |
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Post by Karen on Sept 9, 2003 23:18:23 GMT -5
Maybe not expressly in the words "I want to be human again," but it was certainly the undercurrent in all of BtVS S3 -- and was even indirectly the reason why Angel broke up with Buffy in "Prom" (without getting into issues of was he justified in making decisions about her life) -- his not being human was one of the things that stood in the way of their ever having a "normal" life.
I think he very much wanted to be human -- why else would he have had the nightmare about marrying Buffy? It was something that he couldn't have because he wasn't human. Angel acted so joyful in "I Will Remember You" when he was with Buffy after the demon's blood made him human, I can't help but think he wanted to be human. Seems like actions speak louder than words sometimes. |
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Post by SpringSummers on Sept 10, 2003 7:49:54 GMT -5
I agree. Spike has gone whichever way will do him the most good, up until his final sacrifice. As I look at him now, he has to make a lot of progress before he would be afforded a reward. One article reported, JM saying the fans are getting their snarky Spike back -- but I do hope he has gained some maturity. Another article reported JM as saying Spike was a *dick*. That saddened me. Maybe what JM says depends on his attitude at the time, you know, tired and so on... I<snip> Yeah - I wouldn't put too much stock in JM's musings. The guy definitely likes to hear himself talk, and I get the impression he is saying whatever comes into his head - i.e., it is dependent on his mood, etc. He doesn't seem to make any particular effort to be consistent (and this is a good thing, to me). The best clues about what is really going on with the characters and what might happen next are in what shows up on screen. Everything else doesn't matter much. Even Joss's musings come in second to what shows up on screen, and the things the actors say . . . I don't give them any more (or less) importance than what any fan might say. |
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