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Post by Matthew on Nov 21, 2006 13:20:10 GMT -5
Point. Eden sure got a LOT more interesting once she became "pusher" girl from when she was just "next door neighbor" girl. Yesterday I read an interview with the actress who plays Eden, and she said she pushed (heh) for her character to have powers for that very reason--who wants to be a normal person on a show about folks with superpowers? So it's funny you use her as an example, as she's the one who put that very concept in my head. #blink# That's kinda creepifyin'. AAAAnd, in that vein: Graphic Novellette #9: Life Before Eden
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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on Nov 21, 2006 13:23:22 GMT -5
I have been checking many of the forums for HEROES and I have noticed a disturbing trend. I've noticed that many fans have a tendency to criticize Simone as a character, or completely ignore her and D.L. I wonder why. Being around Niki isn't safe for Micah, either. Or have you forgotten? Well, I personally find Simone boring and the least convincing character. D.L., OTOH, is fascinating. But needs more screen time before I can comment much on his character. And I don't think anyone's forgotten that being around Niki isn't safe - but, as Matthew suggests, she's certainly not gonna see it that way. Good comments, everyS'cubie. I don't know if I can unvague my thoughts, but here goes: I think that the heart of the Niki!Jessica/DL conflict is an unresolved custody battle. Each of them thinks that the other is an unfit parent and dangerous for their son. Neither of them has the whole story, but they are both trying to do what they think is best for Micah. That conflict would be there whether there were superpowers involved or not; the powers add extra dimension to the argument, not to mention danger to all concerned. Speculative scenario - Niki is able to take back control, realises what's going on, is properly horrified, and is able to sit down and actually talk to DL rationally. She knows now that her mirror self committed the murders DL went to prison for. I'd like to think that at some point Niki (because Jessica isn't going to do it) and DL will be able to talk, and maybe use their shared strengths to protect Micah. Or they could just go on playing fugitive and hunter and taking pot-shots at each other until somebody really gets hurt... I dunno.
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Post by Matthew on Nov 21, 2006 14:44:50 GMT -5
Well, I personally find Simone boring and the least convincing character. D.L., OTOH, is fascinating. But needs more screen time before I can comment much on his character. And I don't think anyone's forgotten that being around Niki isn't safe - but, as Matthew suggests, she's certainly not gonna see it that way. Good comments, everyS'cubie. I don't know if I can unvague my thoughts, but here goes: I think that the heart of the Niki!Jessica/DL conflict is an unresolved custody battle. Each of them thinks that the other is an unfit parent and dangerous for their son. Neither of them has the whole story, but they are both trying to do what they think is best for Micah. That conflict would be there whether there were superpowers involved or not; the powers add extra dimension to the argument, not to mention danger to all concerned. Speculative scenario - Niki is able to take back control, realises what's going on, is properly horrified, and is able to sit down and actually talk to DL rationally. She knows now that her mirror self committed the murders DL went to prison for.I'd like to think that at some point Niki (because Jessica isn't going to do it) and DL will be able to talk, and maybe use their shared strengths to protect Micah. Or they could just go on playing fugitive and hunter and taking pot-shots at each other until somebody really gets hurt... I dunno. This all depends on what the actual nature of Jessica and Niki is... If she's one person with DID, then god knows if she'd be able to reintegrate enough to keep Jessica suppressed: if she actually is one body with two persons inside her, one of which has powers, and the other of which does not, well, dang, dunno, then, either...
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Post by Sara on Nov 21, 2006 15:01:04 GMT -5
Yesterday I read an interview with the actress who plays Eden, and she said she pushed (heh) for her character to have powers for that very reason--who wants to be a normal person on a show about folks with superpowers? So it's funny you use her as an example, as she's the one who put that very concept in my head. That's kinda creepifyin'. AAAAnd, in that vein: Graphic Novellette #9: Life Before EdenWow. That's very interesting, presuming it's true. Have we yet gotten any sort of "official" confirmation that these graphic novels should be considered canon?
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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on Nov 21, 2006 15:22:02 GMT -5
Good comments, everyS'cubie. I don't know if I can unvague my thoughts, but here goes: I think that the heart of the Niki!Jessica/DL conflict is an unresolved custody battle. Each of them thinks that the other is an unfit parent and dangerous for their son. Neither of them has the whole story, but they are both trying to do what they think is best for Micah. That conflict would be there whether there were superpowers involved or not; the powers add extra dimension to the argument, not to mention danger to all concerned. Speculative scenario - Niki is able to take back control, realises what's going on, is properly horrified, and is able to sit down and actually talk to DL rationally. She knows now that her mirror self committed the murders DL went to prison for.I'd like to think that at some point Niki (because Jessica isn't going to do it) and DL will be able to talk, and maybe use their shared strengths to protect Micah. Or they could just go on playing fugitive and hunter and taking pot-shots at each other until somebody really gets hurt... I dunno. This all depends on what the actual nature of Jessica and Niki is... If she's one person with DID, then god knows if she'd be able to reintegrate enough to keep Jessica suppressed: if she actually is one body with two persons inside her, one of which has powers, and the other of which does not, well, dang, dunno, then, either... It really reminds me of Angel-Angelus, if we'd ever gotten to see them reintegrating. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out, but I'm betting that at some point, Niki-Jessica is/are going to have to choose between Micah and revenge. If mommy kills daddy, Micah is not going to be a happy little boy. I'm really worried about Micah, because he could so easily get caught in the crossfire. That's probably just the mom-reflex. Anne, and it all comes back to Jossverse in my head
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Post by fish1941 on Nov 21, 2006 17:09:42 GMT -5
Why? Because she lacks a power? Or because she dumped Isaac for Peter?
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Post by Matthew on Nov 21, 2006 17:19:56 GMT -5
Wow. That's very interesting, presuming it's true. Have we yet gotten any sort of "official" confirmation that these graphic novels should be considered canon? Dunno. I'm hoping and digging around on the 9th Wonders site for some sort of "yep, it's part of the storytelling canon" confirmation, but ain't found it yet. LOVE the hell out of the things, though, for they fill in so many neat little bits and pieces. Hope they're canon.
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Post by Rachael on Nov 21, 2006 17:37:42 GMT -5
Why? Because she lacks a power? Or because she dumped Isaac for Peter? Neither. I find the portrayal unconvincing - she seems more like a prop than a character. In my opinion - others may clearly vary. While all the other characters seem vivid and real, with personalities and stories of their own, she seems to exist only to further the plot, and so I find her uninteresting - she could as easily be, for example, a newspaper headline that appears at a critical moment. I haven't decided yet if that's because the writers haven't fleshed the character out sufficiently, or if the actress simply doesn't work for me. Other characters without powers are interesting - Ando, for example, is well-characterized and it's easy to care what becomes of him. Mohinder, obviously, also falls into that category. And other characters who've gotten far less screen time were instantly better filled-in - Charlie, for example, feels like a real person.
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Post by Shan on Nov 21, 2006 17:51:10 GMT -5
Why? Because she lacks a power? Or because she dumped Isaac for Peter? Neither. I find the portrayal unconvincing - she seems more like a prop than a character. In my opinion - others may clearly vary. While all the other characters seem vivid and real, with personalities and stories of their own, she seems to exist only to further the plot, and so I find her uninteresting - she could as easily be, for example, a newspaper headline that appears at a critical moment. I haven't decided yet if that's because the writers haven't fleshed the character out sufficiently, or if the actress simply doesn't work for me. Other characters without powers are interesting - Ando, for example, is well-characterized and it's easy to care what becomes of him. Mohinder, obviously, also falls into that category. And other characters who've gotten far less screen time were instantly better filled-in - Charlie, for example, feels like a real person. My sentiments as well. Even her dad seemed more pertinent. <edit> And more interesting.
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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on Nov 21, 2006 17:51:46 GMT -5
Why? Because she lacks a power? Or because she dumped Isaac for Peter? Neither. I find the portrayal unconvincing - she seems more like a prop than a character. In my opinion - others may clearly vary. While all the other characters seem vivid and real, with personalities and stories of their own, she seems to exist only to further the plot, and so I find her uninteresting - she could as easily be, for example, a newspaper headline that appears at a critical moment. I haven't decided yet if that's because the writers haven't fleshed the character out sufficiently, or if the actress simply doesn't work for me. Other characters without powers are interesting - Ando, for example, is well-characterized and it's easy to care what becomes of him. Mohinder, obviously, also falls into that category. And other characters who've gotten far less screen time were instantly better filled-in - Charlie, for example, feels like a real person. #metoo#
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Post by Matthew on Nov 21, 2006 18:01:12 GMT -5
Neither. I find the portrayal unconvincing - she seems more like a prop than a character. In my opinion - others may clearly vary. While all the other characters seem vivid and real, with personalities and stories of their own, she seems to exist only to further the plot, and so I find her uninteresting - she could as easily be, for example, a newspaper headline that appears at a critical moment. I haven't decided yet if that's because the writers haven't fleshed the character out sufficiently, or if the actress simply doesn't work for me. Other characters without powers are interesting - Ando, for example, is well-characterized and it's easy to care what becomes of him. Mohinder, obviously, also falls into that category. And other characters who've gotten far less screen time were instantly better filled-in - Charlie, for example, feels like a real person. My sentiments as well. Even her dad seemed more pertinent. Huh.... Mr. Deveaux wasn't supposed to be a talent, as such, but we get a clear indication (through Simone, heh) that Peter was communicating with him in his dream, just prior to Mr. Devaux's death: maybe Peter's power is some sort of hyper-empathy that can be applied to talents and non-talents alike....Would fit perfectly in with him being a nurse.
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Post by Lola m on Nov 21, 2006 18:18:23 GMT -5
Well, I personally find Simone boring and the least convincing character. D.L., OTOH, is fascinating. But needs more screen time before I can comment much on his character. And I don't think anyone's forgotten that being around Niki isn't safe - but, as Matthew suggests, she's certainly not gonna see it that way. Good comments, everyS'cubie. I don't know if I can unvague my thoughts, but here goes: I think that the heart of the Niki!Jessica/DL conflict is an unresolved custody battle. Each of them thinks that the other is an unfit parent and dangerous for their son. Neither of them has the whole story, but they are both trying to do what they think is best for Micah. That conflict would be there whether there were superpowers involved or not; the powers add extra dimension to the argument, not to mention danger to all concerned. Speculative scenario - Niki is able to take back control, realises what's going on, is properly horrified, and is able to sit down and actually talk to DL rationally. She knows now that her mirror self committed the murders DL went to prison for. I'd like to think that at some point Niki (because Jessica isn't going to do it) and DL will be able to talk, and maybe use their shared strengths to protect Micah. Or they could just go on playing fugitive and hunter and taking pot-shots at each other until somebody really gets hurt... I dunno. You know, the custody battle thing is really an excellent metaphor. Brava! Yes, I believe that neither DL nor Niki want to harm Micah. (Jessica . . . I have a bit of doubt. I mean, I think she doesn't want to, but I also think she's potentially the sloppiest when it comes to thinking of all the ramifications of the 3 of them. Still thinking of them as 3 people 'til we get more info about what exactly is her power and what is her mental state, etc.) Now, do all 3 of them have the possibility of harming him? Oh, definitely! Especially if this keeps escalating. And just like the messiest of custody battles, it is often the kid that is acting in the most adult manner.
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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on Nov 21, 2006 18:23:37 GMT -5
Good comments, everyS'cubie. I don't know if I can unvague my thoughts, but here goes: I think that the heart of the Niki!Jessica/DL conflict is an unresolved custody battle. Each of them thinks that the other is an unfit parent and dangerous for their son. Neither of them has the whole story, but they are both trying to do what they think is best for Micah. That conflict would be there whether there were superpowers involved or not; the powers add extra dimension to the argument, not to mention danger to all concerned. Speculative scenario - Niki is able to take back control, realises what's going on, is properly horrified, and is able to sit down and actually talk to DL rationally. She knows now that her mirror self committed the murders DL went to prison for. I'd like to think that at some point Niki (because Jessica isn't going to do it) and DL will be able to talk, and maybe use their shared strengths to protect Micah. Or they could just go on playing fugitive and hunter and taking pot-shots at each other until somebody really gets hurt... I dunno. You know, the custody battle thing is really an excellent metaphor. Brava! Yes, I believe that neither DL nor Niki want to harm Micah. (Jessica . . . I have a bit of doubt. I mean, I think she doesn't want to, but I also think she's potentially the sloppiest when it comes to thinking of all the ramifications of the 3 of them. Still thinking of them as 3 people 'til we get more info about what exactly is her power and what is her mental state, etc.) Now, do all 3 of them have the possibility of harming him? Oh, definitely! Especially if this keeps escalating. And just like the messiest of custody battles, it is often the kid that is acting in the most adult manner. Sloppy is a very good description of Jessica - she's all action, with no thought of consequences. The Id, maybe?
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Post by Lola m on Nov 21, 2006 18:25:22 GMT -5
My sentiments as well. Even her dad seemed more pertinent. Huh.... Mr. Deveaux wasn't supposed to be a talent, as such, but we get a clear indication (through Simone, heh) that Peter was communicating with him in his dream, just prior to Mr. Devaux's death: maybe Peter's power is some sort of hyper-empathy that can be applied to talents and non-talents alike....Would fit perfectly in with him being a nurse. The hyper-empathy seems very likely. Hmmmm. Yes, I have been assuming that Mr. Deveaux and Simone don't have powers, I guess we don't know for sure. Maybe, like neighbor girl, they will be shown to us later. I can see that from an acting standpoint, it would be . . . cooler? funner? . . . . something like that, for your role to have powers. But I can also see an interesting acting challenge to be a "normal" person. To sort of represent the audience, as it were. Simone is definitely becoming more sympathetic to me. After the scene when her father had just died for sure (amazing acting in that - I still am wowed by how . . . real she made it feel) and now the one showing her standing up for Peter and helping him when his brother tried to stop him from seeing the painting.
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Post by Lola m on Nov 21, 2006 18:32:41 GMT -5
Why? Because she lacks a power? Or because she dumped Isaac for Peter? Neither. I find the portrayal unconvincing - she seems more like a prop than a character. In my opinion - others may clearly vary. While all the other characters seem vivid and real, with personalities and stories of their own, she seems to exist only to further the plot, and so I find her uninteresting - she could as easily be, for example, a newspaper headline that appears at a critical moment. I haven't decided yet if that's because the writers haven't fleshed the character out sufficiently, or if the actress simply doesn't work for me. Other characters without powers are interesting - Ando, for example, is well-characterized and it's easy to care what becomes of him. Mohinder, obviously, also falls into that category. And other characters who've gotten far less screen time were instantly better filled-in - Charlie, for example, feels like a real person. I think they've done some things with her character recently to give it more depth. Of course, she is not given a lot of screen time (well, none of the characters are with this large a cast, but especially the secondary, non-powers people). But also, I can see that the character does have some elements of cliche (woman trying to save her junky boyfriend, tempted by another, falling for the guy caring for her dying dad, etc.). And they haven't really given her any "quirky/wacky" elements, like you often do with secondary characters, to help them stand out. Like the show-dog stuff with Claire's mom. But at least to me, when they let her actual emotional reactions come out, I find her interesting. Well, and I loved the shot of her in the rain with the red umbrella and all. I'm a sucker for pretty visuals. ;D And yes, of course the usual IMHO always applies. It would be no fun at all if we all had the same feelings and reactions to characters or plots or so on.
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