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Post by deborah on Dec 1, 2003 13:14:04 GMT -5
This quote from JW appears in the Angel Magazine, Issue #4 on pg 15:
"When we did the 'Fool For Love' flashbacks, we really learned that these guys represented two completely different asesthetics and they've gone through two completely different processes. Angel was the most evil person; he was cursed with a soul. He went through a century of navel-gazing agony before he became a champion. Spike was actually something more of a heroic figure in that he was never as evil as Angel. He was a bad guy and a killer, but he was never quite the sadist Angel was. He was also more of a populist. He really represented the sort of birth of the middle class in the 20th Century. He liked working class people. He liked the plebian stuff. He liked brawls. It wasn't all about pain and poetry. Let's face it - Angel was a puffy shirt and we all know it. And then Spike himself was the most human of vampires who actually went out and sought a soul. It's been complicated for both of them to actually have one, but their processes were so different, their reactions were so different, they are so different...And they're both in love with the same girl.
"And James can act. He's good with the acting. He loves to do the work...and everybody who does the scenes with him enjoys themselves because he always comes to play. This is now my eighth year in the Buffyverse - and it's very important that you surround yourself with people who are going to come up to speed every time, because they feed off of each other and they appreciate it."
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Post by RAKSHA on Dec 2, 2003 0:08:26 GMT -5
This quote from JW appears in the Angel Magazine, Issue #4 on pg 15: "When we did the 'Fool For Love' flashbacks, we really learned that these guys represented two completely different asesthetics and they've gone through two completely different processes. Angel was the most evil person; he was cursed with a soul. He went through a century of navel-gazing agony before he became a champion. Spike was actually something more of a heroic figure in that he was never as evil as Angel. He was a bad guy and a killer, but he was never quite the sadist Angel was. He was also more of a populist. He really represented the sort of birth of the middle class in the 20th Century. He liked working class people. He liked the plebian stuff. He liked brawls. It wasn't all about pain and poetry. Let's face it - Angel was a puffy shirt and we all know it. And then Spike himself was the most human of vampires who actually went out and sought a soul. It's been complicated for both of them to actually have one, but their processes were so different, their reactions were so different, they are so different...And they're both in love with the same girl. "And James can act. He's good with the acting. He loves to do the work...and everybody who does the scenes with him enjoys themselves because he always comes to play. This is now my eighth year in the B uffyverse - and it's very important that you surround yourself with people who are going to come up to speed every time, because they feed off of each other and they appreciate it."
I'm not sure I buy Spike as a populist. His origins as William are definitely either very upper middle class or aristocratic. I'd say that Spike was in a class by himself; he assumed the raw vigor of the lower classes, as well as a lower-class accent, but doesn't exactly come off as a proletarian.
William actually was about <pain and poetry>.
I'll agree with JW that Spike was definitely far more human than Angelus, and far less of a sadist too (which I hope the writers remember).
Thanx for posting the article!!![glow=red,2,300]GAIL  [/glow] |
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Post by makd on Dec 2, 2003 0:33:01 GMT -5
Hmmm. Interesting.
I'm not sure I buy Spike as a populist. His origins as William are definitely either very upper middle class or aristocratic. I'd say that Spike was in a class by himself; he assumed the raw vigor of the lower classes, as well as a lower-class accent, but doesn't exactly come off as a proletarian.
William actually was about <pain and poetry>.
I'll agree with JW that Spike was definitely far more human than Angelus, and far less of a sadist too (which I hope the writers remember).
Thanx for posting the article!!![glow=red,2,300]GAIL [/glow] Spike's associations with punk music, jeans and t-shirts, his willingness to live in a crypt while Angel lived in a nice apartment, dressed well, etc., indicate more proletarian leanings. He's as always, overcompensating. He identifies with the workers to show his strength, rather than with the bourgeois, whom he sees as "poofy", soft, etc. |
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Post by Julia, wrought iron-y on Dec 2, 2003 10:53:51 GMT -5
Spike's associations with punk music, jeans and t-shirts, his willingness to live in a crypt while Angel lived in a nice apartment, dressed well, etc., indicate more proletarian leanings. He's as always, overcompensating. He identifies with the workers to show his strength, rather than with the bourgeois, whom he sees as "poofy", soft, etc. I've always been sure that William was a big fan of Ruskin. He shows up at a party in TWEED, for goodness sake, when everyone else is in evening clothes. For a haute bourgois Victorian, that's almost as rebellious as the punk jeans vest with all the safety pins in FFL. Julia |
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Post by makd on Dec 2, 2003 16:08:54 GMT -5
I've always been sure that William was a big fan of Ruskin. He shows up at a party in TWEED, for goodness sake, when everyone else is in evening clothes. For a haute bourgois Victorian, that's almost as rebellious as the punk jeans vest with all the safety pins in FFL. Julia Missed that! Was that in FFL? If so, missed his clothes, was busy focusing on the terrible wig (my bad), the glasses, and the Nancy-boy behavior. |
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Post by Nickim on Dec 2, 2003 17:14:13 GMT -5
I've always been sure that William was a big fan of Ruskin. He shows up at a party in TWEED, for goodness sake, when everyone else is in evening clothes. For a haute bourgois Victorian, that's almost as rebellious as the punk jeans vest with all the safety pins in FFL. Julia Good observation, Julia. I always just thought he was too wrapped up in his own little world, poetry, Cecily, etc. to notice that his clothes didn't fit. |
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Post by Julia, wrought iron-y on Dec 2, 2003 17:57:10 GMT -5
Good observation, Julia. I always just thought he was too wrapped up in his own little world, poetry, Cecily, etc. to notice that his clothes didn't fit. I'd think that, too, if I hadn't had a serious William Morris obsession a few years ago; the whole tweeds and bad hair and poetry thing fits in too well with the Ruskin/Arts and Crafts/PreRaphaelite ethos that was gaining steam about the time of FFL. All terribly safe rebellions, but then, wasn't Punk? Julia, who might annoy certain Tiltish members of the family by saying that |
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Post by thelittlestvampire on Dec 10, 2003 0:59:55 GMT -5
Hmmm. Interesting.
I'm not sure I buy Spike as a populist. His origins as William are definitely either very upper middle class or aristocratic. I'd say that Spike was in a class by himself; he assumed the raw vigor of the lower classes, as well as a lower-class accent, but doesn't exactly come off as a proletarian.
William actually was about <pain and poetry>.
I'll agree with JW that Spike was definitely far more human than Angelus, and far less of a sadist too (which I hope the writers remember).
Thanx for posting the article!!![glow=red,2,300]GAIL [/glow] I always figured that Spike assumes the working class thing because it was so different from the world he came from. William was very aware of the constraints of the upper middle class/aristocratic life. I do think he was a bit of a rebel in his world. I think that as a vampire, he wanted to identify with who he saw as "tough." I think that's the same reason Angel becomes a "puffed shirt" or part of the "fancy cuffs and collars crowd." Angel grew up middle class. For him, (and Darla as well) the wealthy probably seemed free of constraints. In fact for them the wealthy may have personified evil stomping on the helpless as well. People always see more badness in a social class that is not their own. I'm not suprised that as vampires, people seem to turn to a diffreent class than they were born into. |
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Post by RAKSHA on Dec 10, 2003 3:54:05 GMT -5
I always figured that Spike assumes the working class thing because it was so different from the world he came from. William was very aware of the constraints of the upper middle class/aristocratic life. I do think he was a bit of a rebel in his world. I think that as a vampire, he wanted to identify with who he saw as "tough." I think that's the same reason Angel becomes a "puffed shirt" or part of the "fancy cuffs and collars crowd." Angel grew up middle class. For him, (and Darla as well) the wealthy probably seemed free of constraints. In fact for them the wealthy may have personified evil stomping on the helpless as well. People always see more badness in a social class that is not their own. I'm not suprised that as vampires, people seem to turn to a diffreent class than they were born into.
GAIL |
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Post by LadyDi on Dec 10, 2003 13:51:32 GMT -5
I always figured that Spike assumes the working class thing because it was so different from the world he came from. William was very aware of the constraints of the upper middle class/aristocratic life. I do think he was a bit of a rebel in his world. I think that as a vampire, he wanted to identify with who he saw as "tough." I think that's the same reason Angel becomes a "puffed shirt" or part of the "fancy cuffs and collars crowd." Angel grew up middle class. For him, (and Darla as well) the wealthy probably seemed free of constraints. In fact for them the wealthy may have personified evil stomping on the helpless as well. People always see more badness in a social class that is not their own. I'm not suprised that as vampires, people seem to turn to a diffreent class than they were born into. After FFL, it seemed so obvious that William had found a new sense of freedom by taking on the persona of a street tough. It also fits with the defensive Spike persona (quills on a hedgehog, spines on a sea urchin) he developed in reaction to Angelus. The quote from JW makes it clear (as if it weren't already) just how different Angel and Spike are. Spike doesn't really want to be like Angel, and can't help being different, but neither can he help being a little bit like Angel 'cuz they're related. And, yes, James is very good with the acting. ;D |
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