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Post by Dalton on Feb 18, 2004 1:44:50 GMT -5
by Judith Goldberg
This is really a response to the person who put up the poll question about Spike. Thank you for raising the issue.
People -- it's okay to love/like Spike. I don't see arguments about whether it's okay to care so much about Willow (she flayed someone), Angel (though no longer on the show, he did kill the woman Giles' loved Ms. Carpenter) -- but with Spike, we have to question it!
How about great acting by JM, (no I'm not going to mention cheekbones), and the beginning of moral compass WITHOUT a soul. Examples:
1)Spike is the one that proved Tara wasn't a demon.
2)Spike is the one that Buffy trusts her family with, her sister's life with.
3)Spike is the one everyone runs to, when there's something amiss and they need help.
4)Spike is a VAMPIRE who went out and got a SOUL for someone he cares about.
Willow is quickly forgiven (so far this season), even though she killed a human.
I sense Anya too will be enveloped back into the fold (because she gallantly wanted her vengeance undone, even if it meant her own death).
And Angel was FORGIVEN because he was the souless Angelus when he killed Ms. Carpenter.
Listen, we like Spike, because NOONE else on the show seems to -- and he should be considered worthy of them at this point. They sit on a moral high ground (the scoobies), and look down on him (he's beneath them), and we as the viewers just have more compassion.
So stop questioning it, don't worry if you like his cheekbones, or blue eyes. Realize you like the character, because SOMEBODY should, and so far on the show, noone has stepped up to the plate. We the viewers see what the characters (so far), do not.
And if the people who control this board are unhappy with our fondness of Spike (they tend to tell you to go over to the Bloody Awful Poet website, which is all about Spike's redemption), sorry. We're not tongue-tied teenagers, drooling over Mr. Marsters -- we're people who just like a character on a show.
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Post by Dalton on Feb 18, 2004 1:47:19 GMT -5
Judith, I totally agree with you. I would add, though, that some of us do drool over the amazing Mr. Marsters' blue eyes....James brings an incredible depth to a character who could so easily be a cartoon. I must admit to a guilty fantasy - I want to see Spike and Dawn go at it, just so they could be backed by Billy Idol's "White Wedding". For that matter, I think Idol's "Rebel Yell" should have backed at least one of the Spike/Buffy trysts.
Ivory Fauxcat
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Post by Dalton on Feb 18, 2004 1:48:08 GMT -5
I agree!
I also just wish people would get over the "Spike's attempted...", you know - from "Seeing Red" - as if it were THE unpardonable sin of all time in the violent, surreal Buffyverse no less. This seems to be the ever-present, convenient lightening rod and measuring stick that many use to dismiss every good thing Spike has done, so often in a convenient comparison to his "evilness" in relation to everyone else's sins and misdeeds.
BTW Ivory - I've seen a video at some website where the theme was Buffy and Spike "dancing" in more than one way (yum!) and it was in fact set to Billy Idol's "Rebel Yell". It opens with that sultry moment in the alley behind The Bronze in "Fool for Love" where Spike says his famous line about, "I can feel it, Slayer - you know you want to dance." If you want more info, I can try and find it again for you.
Edited By Miss Pamela at 10/31/2002 7:44:00 AM.
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Post by Dalton on Feb 18, 2004 1:48:36 GMT -5
Hey Pamela, I DEFINITELY want to see the video if you can find the site again. Thanks!
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Post by Dalton on Feb 18, 2004 1:49:28 GMT -5
Found it ...and downloaded it myself this time! It's called "Dancer" and it's in the "videos" section of a nicely-done site called "Only Time" - mysticmyst.net/onlytime/Some NICE vids there; the quality more than makes up for quantity.
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Post by Dalton on Feb 18, 2004 1:49:55 GMT -5
Miss Pamela: appreciate your thoughtfulness - just downloaded & watched 'Dancer" - a lovely treat. Thanks. I still want to see Dawn & Spike (have to be in a fantasy sequence to get around the jailbait issue) to Idol's "White Wedding" but then I'm just an old music video/choreography junkie
Ivory Fauxcat
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Post by Dalton on Feb 18, 2004 1:50:34 GMT -5
You're most welcome, Ivory! "White Wedding" is also one of my favorite Billy Idol songs (yeah - I actually like him and The Ramones a lot!) - if I had the software to do it, I'd make a vid to that. Of course, the only wedding scenes in the Buffyverse I'm aware of (not counting the Angel series) are the dream sequence with Buffy and Angel, then of course Anya & Xander's wedding. But yeah - I'd do something with Dawn and Spike - maybe make it a dream sequence set in the future (as you said, to avoid the "jailbait" issue). If you want more great resources to find Buffyverse videos, check out the Buffyverse Music Video Database: www.buffyvids.comIt's got links to HUNDREDS of vids plus links to DOZENS MORE sites w/ vids! Miss Pamela |
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Post by Dalton on Feb 18, 2004 1:51:17 GMT -5
of Spike's Popularity?
While we're on this topic - my favorite, of course...!
Has anyone else noticed a slightly defensive tone that's crept into some discussions lately, not just a few places here at ScoopMe! but everywhere, where someone will say something like, "Hello - this show is called 'BUFFY the Vampire Slayer', not 'SPIKE the Slayer Slayer' or 'The SPIKE Show'!".
While I certainly disparage no one's right to their opinion, I think there's some evidence to suggest that if Spike isn't THE most popular character on BtVS, then he's in a strong second place. It's just one of those things - there's no written rule that says or can even guarantee that one tv show character isn't going to become more popular than another, even the "other" is the show's namesake.
I'm sure it's not true, but I'd almost swear at times that Jossverse & Co. are doing their DAMNDEST to try and make sure we DON'T love Spike more than Buffy or the other original Scoobies (Xander & Willow). But there's no logic to the human (or vampire) heart - love is NOT a choice - it's a feeling. ;-)
Thoughts?
Best wishes all,
Miss Pamela
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Post by Dalton on Feb 18, 2004 1:51:51 GMT -5
Miss Pamela: Wow and gloriosky, sandy! However do you find these sites, my dear? Wish I had broadband, as it takes forever to download one of these with my measy little dial-up. Thanks again
Ivory Fauxcat
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Post by Dalton on Feb 18, 2004 1:52:27 GMT -5
You're again most welcome - anytime! ;-) Yeah, we have a cable modem, and you bet I'm taking full advantage of it to get maximum Spikey goodness! As far as how I find these sites, the search engine www.google.com helped some; I also check out links at every new site I come across that looks decent; never know when an unexpected little "gem" will pop up. I don't know if this site shows up anywhere on the Buffyverse Music Video Database, but here's another one you might like: "Band of Buggered" at www.bandofbuggered.com. Gawd, I wanna SpikeBot for Christmas; if ONLY - then modems and such be dammned. |-)
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Post by Dalton on Feb 18, 2004 1:53:16 GMT -5
Miss Pamela, I too want to thank you for website info (I went to "bandofbuggered.com last night and was up until 1 am reading the Fanfic.)
As a writer myself, I always avoid the fanfic stories -- what a snob I have been! There are some very talented people out there, writing excellent storylines (the storylines we wish for in our heart when it comes to S/B).
So thanks again.
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Post by Dalton on Feb 18, 2004 1:53:52 GMT -5
You're certainly welcome! And since you mentioned being a "fan fiction snob" ;-), which just means you have discriminating taste, right - I thought I'd also recommend to you the "Dancing Lessons" trilogy at randomthought.addr.com/redemptionista/. It's got the B/S 'ship in it, but OH, so much more, too - it's practically a 3-part novel! My husband is not a B/S shipper or anything; he likes stories that are broad-based with good depth and characterization (as do I and you probably do, too) - not just "fluffy" stuff or "PWP". But he loves this series; "It's about as good as what Joss might write!", he exclaimed! ;-) So you might check that out if you like. And please feel free to e-mail me anytime if you want to talk BtVS or even *gasp* that Big Bad SPIKE! Edited By Miss Pamela at 11/18/2002 7:08:00 PM.
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Post by Dalton on Feb 18, 2004 1:54:27 GMT -5
my productiveness for the day
I'm at work, snowing like crazy outside, not much to do (actually, plenty I SHOULD be doing). I'm staring out the window, and here I've found direction to some (gasp) GOOD B/S fanfic.
I don't know whether to thank you two and start reading RIGHT NOW or save it for later.
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