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Post by William the Bloody on Oct 1, 2004 9:18:57 GMT -5
Yep, you've found it! The place to discuss this fine episode! |
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Post by SpringSummers on Oct 1, 2004 10:22:41 GMT -5
You done it again!
I especially loved the catch on the polar bear in the comic book! I wonder what that will be about? Will there be a connection between people's thoughts and fears, and what "shows up" on the island?
I noticed that as soon as Sayid and Sawyer started to argue, the bear showed up . . . maybe the "monsters" are a metaphor for the monsters (fears, inadequacies, prejudices) within, the "monsters" that they will all have to combat to survive together.
About Charley: I agree he isn't a bad guy, but I thought his volunteering to go on the trek was in part motivated by an attraction to Shannon. He said he was "definitely going" after he found out that she was going.
I agree with your nicely expressed feelings about Jin and Sun - though I'm going to cut Jin a sliver of slack for awhile. As Boone pointed out, they've all been traumatized. I also agreed with your feel about Locke. I mean - he seems somewhat creepy, but I kinda liked him too. And Hurley - so dependable he's even there for you when he's unconscious! Great description.
I enjoy the summary of each character with the pics. We do need to see more of the doggie.
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Post by Queen E on Oct 1, 2004 10:22:56 GMT -5
Corkin' job on the review, most excellent arch technopagan!
I really like the use of pictures at the bottom; it's a helpful and delightfully visual way to summarize the episodes, especially with the huge cast.
Mad kudos to you, sir!
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Post by Patti - S'cubie Cutie on Oct 1, 2004 16:27:53 GMT -5
Vlad, thanks for the excellent review of Part II.
You did a great job both summarizing the action and giving us some things to make us go hmmm....
The comic pages catch was just great! Bravo! HOW did you capture that without your other computer btw?
If you email me the enlarged photo, I'll get my neighbor to translate it for us.
Was the pic of the polar bear just an inside joke of the writers like a hidden easter egg, or is there some really freaky thoughts-into-reality thing going on on the island....
And I really liked the character update at the end, I hope you will continue doing that.
I had let Sawyer's letter escape me...am interested in seeing what his flashback tells us about him.
This show is very interesting and your reviews are doing it justice. Thanks!
But....when I clicked the link to the discussion area, I was taken to your Part 1 review instead of here. Could you fix that so people don't think (as I first did) that there is nowhere to discuss this review yet?
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Post by leftylady on Oct 1, 2004 16:59:20 GMT -5
neverhaving posted here I got onto the wrong thread I posted to Part 1, so I'm repeating here:
"Actually this is about part 2:
The Spanish cartoon:
I'm pretty good with fill in the blank puzzles so with a magnifying glass and my trusty diccionario, I improved the translation as best as visible:
Orange Lightning Bolt Man:
Cuales son ahora tus planes?
[What are your plans now?]
?con? que te afecta decirnoslo, de todos modos somos tus titeres.
[whatever makes you tell us, after all we are your puppets.]
Green Cape Man:
Entendemos como te sientes. lo que hacimos hace ?medio? ?siglo? estuvo mal y lo que te hicieron desde entonces esta mas alla de cualquir clase de perdon.
[We understand how you feel. What we did ?a half-century ago? was bad and what they did to you after that is beyond pardon.]
Pero si alguien ?illegible? ha de para por eso.
[But if someone ?illegible?, he has to pay for that.]
Mysterious Knobby Headed Figure:
Mi plan es morir.
[My plan is to die.]
Por culpa de Gunther y de ustedes, estoy plagado de enfermedades pero compartiras mi dolor.
[Because of Gunther and you I am plagued/tormented by disease but you will share my pain.]
Perhaps someone can see what I missed.
leftylady (La senora zurda)"
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Post by leftylady on Oct 1, 2004 17:02:31 GMT -5
leftylady again:
oops -
wanted to correct a typo so of previous post:
Pero si alguien ?illegible? ha de pagar por eso.
[But if someone ?illegible?, he has to pay for that.]
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Post by Nickim on Oct 1, 2004 17:53:30 GMT -5
Thanks for the great review, Vlad. Not fair to be able to enlarge the comic photos that way. But, I'm thinking it has to be a clue. Did someone create this world based on a comic book fantasy?
I was so tired and sick on Wednesday that I had to fight to stay awake during this episode. It seemed pretty slow, but maybe it was just because I didn't feel good.
Thanks leftylady for translating the Spanish. Come on over to the Main Board and join in the fun.
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Post by William the Bloody on Oct 1, 2004 20:52:45 GMT -5
<snip> This show is very interesting and your reviews are doing it justice. Thanks! But....when I clicked the link to the discussion area, I was taken to your Part 1 review instead of here. Could you fix that so people don't think (as I first did) that there is nowhere to discuss this review yet? <snip> Thanks. I took care of it. Vlad |
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Post by Karen on Oct 1, 2004 22:11:23 GMT -5
Awesome review, Vlad! You caught so many things that I missed, and I thought I was playing real close attention. Spring's idea that maybe the castaways fears are manifesting because of your catch about the polar bear was something I wondered, too. I hope we get some supernatural stuff in this show, because I'm all about that. There's something about the color orange. I noticed it, too. It was so striking and I think it's being used for a reason. Neat. From a color website: I bolded the part that I think most pertains. OUr attention is being brought to certain key elements of the show, or maybe it highlights elements in an episode. It'll be interesting to see if they continue with this throughout. You mentioned how Kate gave the gun back to Sawyer. Maybe she sees him as a possible ally. I haven't been recording "Lost", but I think I'm going to start. I may have been mistaken about it not being the next "Buffy", because I'm beginning to see some elements that it might have more depth that I supposed it would. Mostly thanks to your reviews.  And Raspberry Zingers as per usual are on the bar. ETA: The backgammon thing really interests me, too. |
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Post by Lola m on Oct 2, 2004 12:31:36 GMT -5
Kudos on the review, Vlad! With so many characters, so many backstories, so many possibilities this early in the game, you've done an amazing job on sorting through and summarizing the various threads. Really like your organization into pairs or groups of characters and their intreraction. The start of your review, where you talked about critics being able to see the whole 2-hour premier, uninterrupted, made me think once again about the differences between movies and serial television. In my opinion, dramatic serial television has the possibility (when done well) to be the best depiction of complex storytelling available. This two hour premier, so movie like in the quality of the filming and scope, actually gets to have the best of both worlds. All the "wow" factor of a (almost) movie-like budget and vision. But also all the time available to serial TV. A movie would have to radically reduce the size of the cast or cut their storylines down to such an extent that we might as well not have them at all. Serial TV gives us such possibilities for larger, longer, more complex character and story arcs. **Sigh, having a "miss Joss" moment** OK, I'm back! You definitely spotted some things I missed (the comic book polar bear, the "Howell-ness" of Boone and Shannon, etc.) and gave me some perspectives that I hadn't thought of before (Sawyer being half right and half wrong - both he and Sayid having talents to bring to the group, the possibility of another clip for the gun, etc.) Loved the "updated" profiles at the end. Between these and the grouped summaries of plot lines and relationships, I feel much more on top of the complexity in this show. (Although we may need some kind of "relationship/story map" eventually! I can see the story possibilities just multiplying like a criss cross of spiderwebs.  ) Again, very very nice job, Vlad! Lola |
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Post by MaryMuse on Oct 2, 2004 21:04:14 GMT -5
Another great review, Vlad. Thanks! You caught a lot of things I missed -- though having to watch it more than once for the review probably helps.  I'd like to add one thing to the "what didn't work" pile for me -- the polar bear. After doing some research, polar bears are not found in the southern hemisphere -- period. I posted a link on the main board, I think it was to a CA zoo, that had more info about polar bears. So, either it is like in the comic book and something more is going on (I hope) or there was sloppy research done. I hope not the latter, 'cuz that tends to make me not forgive a tv show. However, I did look on a World Atlas, and it doesn't appear to be any smaller islands about a 1000 miles south from Figi (where I think they'd have to be for a polar bear or any polar animal, if they existed in the antartic). So it's probably a madeup mileu, which is okay, if the real-life rules are followed. We didn't see many snow-filled Chrismas episodes of Buffy, for example. I'm really getting to know these characters and like most of them. I do want to know what Kate's crime is, and I hope it comes out soon. Interesting that Jack wasn't there for the gun event. Although I must say Kate handled the gun well. She asked for directions but executed them far more smoothly than any gun novice would have. |
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Post by Sue on Oct 2, 2004 22:27:26 GMT -5
Thanks Vlad. Great recap AND analysis.
Only thing I saw which hasn't been mentioned here (but I missed the discussion on the main thread so probably it was there) was how, when Locke held up the two backgammon pieces, the white piece on next to the unhurt side of his face and the black piece was next to the side with the cut.
The effect was also enhanced by the lighting: The left side of his face looked lighter and "friendly". If you stop the frame and cover the left side and only view the right it looks darker, and, with the cut thru the eye very "evil-ish" (dark). I'm assuming that was on purpose and great attention to detail, not just accidental placement.
Mary--I didn't think they meant to imply that there was any logical reason at all for the bear to be there. Nothern hemisphere or southern clearly a tropical island is a very unnatural habitat for a polar bear. My guesses ranged from: the bear was a survivor (or descendant of a survivor) of the possible previous plane crash (or whatever) that stranded the French lady 16 years ago. Or--an escapee from the evil Dr. Moreau who is living in seclusion on the island and experimenting on animals (and possibly humans). OR got there thru a dimensional rift connecting the Artic to our unknown island to the Bermuda triangle to the "Land of the Lost."
Hey--anybody else got a better explanation. ;D
Besides, it's fun to let the imagination run wild and since I LOVE Sci-fi I wouldn't have any problem at all with this show not being the least bit "realistic."
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Post by Karen on Oct 3, 2004 8:21:00 GMT -5
Thanks Vlad. Great recap AND analysis. Only thing I saw which hasn't been mentioned here (but I missed the discussion on the main thread so probably it was there) was how, when Locke held up the two backgammon pieces, the white piece on next to the unhurt side of his face and the black piece was next to the side with the cut. The effect was also enhanced by the lighting: The left side of his face looked lighter and "friendly". If you stop the frame and cover the left side and only view the right it looks darker, and, with the cut thru the eye very "evil-ish" (dark). I'm assuming that was on purpose and great attention to detail, not just accidental placement. Mary--I didn't think they meant to imply that there was any logical reason at all for the bear to be there. Nothern hemisphere or southern clearly a tropical island is a very unnatural habitat for a polar bear. My guesses ranged from: the bear was a survivor (or descendant of a survivor) of the possible previous plane crash (or whatever) that stranded the French lady 16 years ago. Or--an escapee from the evil Dr. Moreau who is living in seclusion on the island and experimenting on animals (and possibly humans). OR got there thru a dimensional rift connecting the Artic to our unknown island to the Bermuda triangle to the "Land of the Lost." Hey--anybody else got a better explanation. ;D Besides, it's fun to let the imagination run wild and since I LOVE Sci-fi I wouldn't have any problem at all with this show not being the least bit "realistic." I'm hoping for the supernatural myself. And Spring mentioned that the polar bear could have been a manifestation of Walt's thoughts when he was reading that comic book with the angry polar bear in it. Interesting about the lighting on Locke's face and the light and dark pieces. I wonder if he knows the island's secret. Orange - I noticed last night on the rewatch, that the pregnant girl was wearing an orange chinese (I think) symbol around her neck. |
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Post by William the Bloody on Oct 3, 2004 10:37:56 GMT -5
spring said:
The spotting of the comic bear was almost a complete accident. I was rewinding the tape to pause for a re-listen to the conversation between Michael and Walt and jsut "happened" to pause it on the blow up of the bear in the comic. So I checked it out closer.
The translation of the frame below it, with the superheroes/villains (my thanks to our new member,leftylady, for hte great translation she provided as compared to my hack job in the review!) really makes me wonder if there isn't something almost supernatural going on. Like the boy Walt is making it all come true. I really don't know what to think, but I think this is a huge, huge clue.
Also, I am not cutting Jin a shred of slack thus far. His weren't the actions of a traumatized person. They were of one that is coldly calculating, from his exclusion of hte others in the first half and the offering of food in the second, he is playing a game to "win" and only appears to care about himself.
eg said:
and
Patti said:
The picture profile updates will continue!
As far as the pic capture, I explain further down HOW i spotted it, but actually getting the picture off the screen? I played the tape through the cheap tv card in the other computer and snapped stills rapidly as the scene went by.
I don;t think the picture ofh te polar bear in the comic was an inside joke. I don;t know if we were supposedto truly catch it, or have it be subliminal, but it was htere for a reason. Also, the dialogue in the second frame... I know I will be on the look out for ANYONE named Gunther.
leftylady said:
Thank you sooo much for re-translating the comic dialogue! I did the best I could with my piddlin' Spanish skills and a dictionary. I really think that these comics bear (pun intended) a real clue as to what is going on. After I wrote my review, I visited several other sites and saw absolutely no mention of the comic anywhere else. This could be a Soulful Spike Society Exclusive! *L*
Nicki said:
That is, indeed, one of my "wonders." Is it something from the subconcious of Walt? Were the books aboard the plane? Or did he find them on the beach?
Karen said:
Yes, I noted in the review the various things that were "orange." I can see the fish as being important, the dog leash, the uniforms and the comic book characters..but Kate's t-shirt? or Shannon's bikini? Hmm on second thought *grin* but really, neither needed bright orange to catch my eye.
Actually, there may be somethign to that: Kate was the character we learned most about in the second half and Shannon was key to the deciphering of the French. I am anxious to check out next week's use of orange.
Lola said:
Yes, this show has much more complexity to it than I originally thought it would. I must say that iam glad! Now I find out via the comicbook that I am going to have to start viewing it in slow motion too *wink*
I think Sawyer, while being sort ofa pain in the reaeer occasionally, is going to turn out to be someone really needed for the survival of this group. He's got guts and I can't wait for his backstory to come out.
I plan on keeping up with the profile-ish updates, but you are right, at some point I may beed to do a chart on how each thing is inter-related. *L* Actually, That isn't a bad idea. Maybe at some point... liek a third of the way through... I might take a stab at that.
Mary said:
I don't think that this show is going to be that sloppy, not over somethign as big as a polar bear! And not in the first episode. The fact that the polar bear IS there is supposed to strike us (and the characters) as incongruous, a part of the 'mystery.'
Sue said:
Sue, I sooo did not notice that! Great catch on your part there. I will definitely keep it in mind as I watch and review the show further. I don't think Locke is necessarily "bad." I sure do want to know what that secret is, though.
and finally Karen said:
And yet antoher instance of somethign I missed. You guys are doing great! I will have to take a look at hte symbol and see if I can figure out what it is.
You guys have all been so generous with your praise. I think reviewing this program is letting me get even more out of it. I hope you all are, too. I was a little iffy with the first half, but the second half really paid off. I can't wait for episode three... which, hold onto your hats folks, is titled: Tabula Rasa.
Hmmmmm, coincidence?
Vlad
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Post by Karen on Oct 3, 2004 11:22:34 GMT -5
You guys have all been so generous with your praise. I think reviewing this program is letting me get even more out of it. I hope you all are, too. I was a little iffy with the first half, but the second half really paid off. I can't wait for episode three... which, hold onto your hats folks, is titled: Tabula Rasa. Hmmmmm, coincidence? Vlad Hee! I noticed that episode name, too, but didn't know if it was a spoiler to mention it. The reviewing and the comments make all of the shows a lot more interesting to me. Is there anyway to add another 40 hours to the week, tho? |
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