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Post by William the Bloody on Oct 16, 2004 6:28:34 GMT -5
Yep, you've found it! The place to discuss this fine episode!
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Post by SpringSummers on Oct 16, 2004 8:46:52 GMT -5
First, thanks so much for the excellent summary. I had to miss the ep, and foolishly forgot to tape it. This catches me up in a thorough, entertaining way, without having to read a tedious blow-by-blow.
You sure make me sorry I missed it though, especially the “miracle” revelation.
I love the “Road to Shambala” motif, Vlad. Perfect for setting the mood of the “chance for renewal” theme you emphasize. And you are doing a particularly great job with the characterizations – which in the end, is what it is all about. I really like the pics at the end and the observations underneath.
LOL on the comment about Sawyer letting Hurley catch him with the peanuts!
I do wonder how they are going to handle Charley dealing with finishing his stash – and if they will address Hurley no longer having “peanuts” to eat at the same time. And Sawyer will run out of cigarettes, if he hasn’t already (might explain the peanut hoarding.) Food and nicotine addiction aren’t going to give Hurley or Sawyer the kind of dramatic withdrawal trouble that Charley is heading for, but Charley (and Locke, in an opposite way) is just the poster boy for what is going on: Everyone is having to let go of former crutches and start anew.
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Post by Nickim on Oct 16, 2004 8:53:32 GMT -5
What am I doing wrong? When I click on the Lost reviews, number 4 doesn't show up. Spring, I like your idea about them having to throw away their crutches. I was thinking that maybe Locke's paralysis was pyschosomatic. And, now that he's in a totally different environment, where no one knows what he "can't do", he is able to do those things.
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Post by SpringSummers on Oct 16, 2004 9:04:49 GMT -5
What am I doing wrong? When I click on the Lost reviews, number 4 doesn't show up. Spring, I like your idea about them having to throw away their crutches. I was thinking that maybe Locke's paralysis was pyschosomatic. And, now that he's in a totally different environment, where no one knows what he "can't do", he is able to do those things. Hi Nicki! Try refreshing your screen. Or try this link directly to the review: www.soulfulspike.com/lost/lost_1-4.htm
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Post by Nickim on Oct 16, 2004 9:39:34 GMT -5
I finally thought of that and it worked, but thanks for the help and hi, Spring.
And, thank you, Vlad. Awesome review. I loved the Road to Shambala reference and lyrics.
As I mentioned above, Locke's paralysis may have been pyschsomatic. Therefore, the miracle was in his mind. Also, spinal cord injury patients undergoe constant physical therapy to prevent muscle atrophy. His legs would have been weak, but he probably would have been able to walk, at least a little. Also, the adrenaline from the knowledge that he could move would have helped.
I have to wonder if Kate really dropped the receiver "accidentaly." Maybe she doesn't really want to be rescued. I know I'd much rather be stranded on a gorgeous tropical island with several totally hot guys than be in prison.
I really like your thoughts about Sayid. You said he "continues to do what needs to be done." I keep thinking that his background makes him very different than the rest of the survivors. He's from Iraq, a country that was ruled by a dictator, so he understands the need for control and he's probably more used to deprivation. I'm not trying to make a political statement here, so just bear with me. Controlling information is part of how a dictator stays in power. You can keep people from revolting or panicking by only telling them what you think is best. I'm not saying he's trying to be the Island Dictator, but his background will cause him to see situations a little differently than someone raised in a more open, affluent society. Of course, we might find out that he was raised in a palace!
Can we just offer Shannon up to the Island gods and be done with her? Someone--I'm sorry, I don't remember who--mentioned that she's a parasite. Very true, but she's not a good one. A successful parasite doesn't kill it's host, at least not too soon. Shannon sucks the life out of everyone she's around. It does stand to reason that her "type" would be in a group that large, but I still want to slap her.
You said something about Sawyer attempting to kill the marshall for the "good of the group." I don't see it that way. I don't believe in euthanasia under any circumstances. I think it was a selfish act, not to prevent the marshall's pain, but rather to prevent the others from having to listen to that pain. The fact that the marshall was conscious seems to be another of those medical mistakes that I've seen in this show. Serious blood leads to unconsciousness--at least in MOST cases--not to loud, moaning suffering. It was one of those unecessary situational ethics scenes that I don't like, and that this show will hopefully rise above.
Charley Tuna--Tee Hee
Thanks again, Vlad. This review was worth the wait.
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Post by Lola m on Oct 16, 2004 12:06:35 GMT -5
Wow. I mean, wow.
Really, really excellent review, Vlad. Once again I feel the love for the style you have chosen for reviewing - summary, analysis, character snapshots. It is really working so well for this particular show!
Loved your "road to Shambala" theme. As you noted, this ep that showcases Locke also uses his story to highlight similar themes with each of the others on the island. Liked your use of quotes from Three Dog Night - describing the many mini-story arcs within the larger story of the ep. Locke's past and his new life on the island. Jack's realization that dealing with the immediate crisis is now done and folks are still looking to him. The wonderful little scenes between him and Rose. The changes in Sawyer, Claire stepping in where Jack could not, Shannon and Charley, Kate's gift for connection. The writers did a very nice job of weaving the themes in and around each of the characters. A very very fine ep indeed!
Your summary paragraph is particularly fine.
Even if it's not as horrificly huge or dramatic as a plan crash, we all have those moments in our lives when things happen, change is forced upon us, outside events force us to reconsider and take re-stock. Are we destined to repeat our same mistakes or will we grow and change and learn to get together to survive? Hmmm. Your connections, your family and friends, are your strength. Seems like I've heard that somewhere before. ;D
Again, a most excellent review, Vlad. Bravo!
Lola
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Post by Patti - S'cubie Cutie on Oct 16, 2004 14:24:41 GMT -5
What am I doing wrong? When I click on the Lost reviews, number 4 doesn't show up. Spring, I like your idea about them having to throw away their crutches. I was thinking that maybe Locke's paralysis was pyschosomatic. And, now that he's in a totally different environment, where no one knows what he "can't do", he is able to do those things. I think that would ignore the polar bear and big scary thing aspect of the island. something not natural is happening there...
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Post by Patti - S'cubie Cutie on Oct 16, 2004 15:24:46 GMT -5
Can I just copy Lola and get credit or do I have to be original here? *grin*
You did an outstanding job in this review. Seeing the 'Lost' premise and the island as a form of Shambala or Shangri-la where what you think creates your reality ... fits so perfectly with what we are seeing each week that surely you have hit on the inspiration for the creators of this show. And I was unfamiliar with any of that before your review. I don't share a belief in this concept myself, but it makes for great storytelling and brain sharpening discussion. Sometimes good writing and the insights contained therein give me chills - I experience that watching this show and experienced that reading your review this week.
I want to eetah everyone else in still liking the style you are using for your reviews. Hopefully more and more people will be turning into Lost, and coming here to read and discuss. Your summaries provide an excellent way for new folk to 'catch up' on missed episodes, and for the rest of us to go back and review how things evolved and the characters grew. And your reviews, like those of the other fine writers here give us reason to be proud of sharing this place with those we meet elsewhere on the web.
Also, your attention to detail always finds things I missed. Sometimes huge things, like Shambala, sometimes SEEMINGLY small ones like the comic book (which seems to be a huge point in favor of this Shambala idea) and this time the white shoes on the man in the distance. I'm thinking this might be Jack's doctor father, and those are medical professional shoes. Don't make me defend this theory.
I am in total agreement with the last two things you chose this week for 'what worked'... "The absolutely fantastic way that Locke’s secret was hinted at all through the episode but only revealed at the very end. Masterful storytelling!"
"In this episode (and, really, all of them) the way the flashbacks are being used. The editing of this show is marvelous..." The storytelling and editing, the fillming, and the acting are a perfect mesh - it's only right that this show should have some 'magical' or 'mystical' theme to it, because the product we are seeing each week is near perfect to my mind.
So this isn't just a fan letter, I disagree with your first point in "What didn't work". *grin*
For me, the fact that we haven't seen the 'creature' DOES work....my current theory being that the creature is different depending on who sees him - each will create his own creature, and it can appear to be devil or angel.
So who created the monster who killed the pilot...and how will these people become 'one' with such two different visions of life as that one and the benevolent (?) creature Locke conjured?
Laughed out loud at...
"Jack, finally you are beginning to show that you aren’t Superman. What is that secret you are keeping so close to your breast? And the weird blue guy… don’t worry about it. You aren’t going nuts. We saw him too."
AND the swiss army knife!
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Post by Karen on Oct 17, 2004 10:10:45 GMT -5
I loved your review, Vlad. So they're all on the Road to Shambala? I love that 3-Dog Night song and the way you fit it into the episode. I particularly like your synopsis of the characters each week. It's going to be interesting to go back and read them throughout the series to look for changes and growth. Jack has been pegged "the hero" because he stepped up to help because he had the power *to* help at the beginning. Surgeons are often looked up to as "heroes". I wonder if he, as a surgeon, couldn't handle the disappointment that comes with losing patients. It has to take a special kind of faith to deal with the power of holding a person's life in your hands. Charlie and Hurley? "Maybe you two can go fishing." LOL! EETAH on your eyeglasses comment! I really think that Jack thinks that they'll be saved soon and that's why he didn't think to save the fuselage. Is it too soon to give up that hope? Can you deal with survival and also hang on to hope for a rescue? You don't like "Boone"? Cute, Xander-like, loveable Boone? He seems to be the one, at times, who sees what needs to be done and sees the one able to do it. He helped Jack at the beginning with Rose, and again later. I wonder why that connection is being shown. Oh, and Rose had an orange shirt on. The only time I noticed the color in the episode, except for Kate's kind of dull orange shirt and Claire's dull orange necklace. Did you ever figure out what Chinese symbol it was? Your "what didn't work" got me thinking. It’s episode 4. I understand building up the suspense with the “creature” not being seen, but we need a little bit more of a bone. A glimpse of something… a paw or hand or fang… would go a real far way in pacifying the audience. Otherwise, I would prefer they just keep it out of the storyline until they are prepared to give us more. It’s hard to believe that many people have been chased by something that big, and the only one that has seen the creature is Locke.
My take on this is that Locke was the only one at the time that was 'prepared' to see it. He obviously wasn't scared by it, like the pilot was. He faced it down and overcame his fear. I think the rest of the passengers will face their fears when they're ready - and see the beast. I'm not too ticked that we haven't seen the beast yet. I might not be ready. These people need to learn cooperation if they are all going to survive. By becoming one, that one will have the skills, talents and stamina it will need, whether it’s surviving until a rescue comes or simply forming a new society. They have their entire pasts to draw upon, both their successes and their mistakes. Will they manage to overcome their limitations and grow? Or are they destined to repeat the same mistakes from their prior lives?I LOVED these insights. Locke and Kate have managed to shed their past restraints, at least their physical restraints (handcuffs and wheelchair). Will these miracles extend to their spiritual growth? They do need to become "one" in order to survive. How will these individuals manage to do that successfully since there seem to be many of societies and personalities represented here. I'm excited to see what the writers come up with. Thanks for a wonderful review.
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Post by Nickim on Oct 17, 2004 10:24:37 GMT -5
I think that would ignore the polar bear and big scary thing aspect of the island. something not natural is happening there... Still not natural to be thrown from a plane crash and NOT be paralyzed. Still a miracle to suddenly be able to walk, just a miracle of the mind. I'm probably totally wrong. I just hope we keep peeling away the layers of each character, if not I think the "big, scary, tree-shaking monster" could get kind of old.
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Post by Karen on Oct 17, 2004 10:25:02 GMT -5
I finally thought of that and it worked, but thanks for the help and hi, Spring. And, thank you, Vlad. Awesome review. I loved the Road to Shambala reference and lyrics. As I mentioned above, Locke's paralysis may have been pyschsomatic. Therefore, the miracle was in his mind. Also, spinal cord injury patients undergoe constant physical therapy to prevent muscle atrophy. His legs would have been weak, but he probably would have been able to walk, at least a little. Also, the adrenaline from the knowledge that he could move would have helped. I have to wonder if Kate really dropped the receiver "accidentaly." Maybe she doesn't really want to be rescued. I know I'd much rather be stranded on a gorgeous tropical island with several totally hot guys than be in prison. I had both of these same thoughts, Nicki. Locke told Helen that "I am going to a therapist." I think he meant psychiatrist, so your theory may be true. Yeah, I thought it was very convenient for the "beast" to appear and cause Kate to drop the receiver. She shimmied up that tree so well, it seemed kind of odd that she managed to drop the receiver. Interesting thoughts about Sayid. He obviously is very smart, and he does come from a totally different place than the rest of them. And then you have the Koreans. Someone is in touch with current affairs on the writing staff. I think it's going to be hard to keep politics and religion out of this discussion, but easy to keep it in the context of the show. LOL! Me, too! She's like that little selfish part in all of us that needs to be beat down all the time. But also may be necessary for survival. That scene was disturbing, but very realistic. A kind of "what would you do" type of scenario. I'm not sure what I would do in that situation.
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Post by Rachael on Oct 17, 2004 21:59:38 GMT -5
You said something about Sawyer attempting to kill the marshall for the "good of the group." I don't see it that way. I don't believe in euthanasia under any circumstances. I think it was a selfish act, not to prevent the marshall's pain, but rather to prevent the others from having to listen to that pain. The fact that the marshall was conscious seems to be another of those medical mistakes that I've seen in this show. Serious blood leads to unconsciousness--at least in MOST cases--not to loud, moaning suffering. It was one of those unecessary situational ethics scenes that I don't like, and that this show will hopefully rise above. Hmm. I disagree a bit here - because I'd argue that there was a moment that the Marshall asked to have his misery ended. And, that being the case, knowing that there was no way he was going to survive much longer, in my opinion killing him was the ethical thing to do. And...even had he not asked for it, there's another issue, which is the futility of trying to save someone you know probably can't be saved, and, as Sawyer pointed out, using up lots of resources that are going to be needed by others in the coming weeks and months. Had Jack found a stash of antibiotics, would it be ethical to use them all up on one person who would likely die anyway? I don't honestly know the answer to that question. I know if I was Jack, I'd probably try to save him, because I doubt I'd have the strength of character required to just let someone die even if I thought it was the right choice.
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Post by Sue on Oct 19, 2004 12:36:46 GMT -5
Vlad,
Thanks so much for the synopsis at the beginning. It helps a lot to keep the characters and details fresh in my mind.
One minor quibble (getting it out of the way before the lavish praise):
you said:
While I understand that it is reasonable to assume that the big things may all be the same one big thing I don't think we have any actual proof of that.
We've also seen a polar bear and a wild boar. (Which could easily have been mistaken for just one thing if all we'd actually seen of either was shaking grass.)
We know something large killed the pilot. We haven't seen it, have they? And Kate saw very talk grass swaying, so, again, with the something very large. And finally, Locke looks up so we assume something large. But other than that all is mystery.
Perhaps there is a big bad and also a big benevolent. Perhaps whatever it is changes is personality in intereaction with individuals. I'm withholding judgment here.
--------------
The "destiny" thing is really interesting. You (Vlad) seems to be a bit skeptical about whether this was a true miracle. I don't have any doubt that Locke at least is convinced that it is. (And I'm in agreement. I haven't rewatched but can you actually see both legs when he is sitting in the wheelchair? Is it just paralysis and not amputation?)
But here's a question I have about destiny: How is one person's destiny intertwined with the destiny of those around him?
I mean, for Locke to get his miracle and fulfill his destiny was it really necessary for an entire plane to crash, killing dozens and impacting the lives and destinies of dozens more? [When you pray for your team to win that means somebody else's team has to lost, after all.]
Destiny is a very tricky matter. Especially now that the futures of everyone on the island seem to be bound up together.
I'm still pretty enamoured of the "Dawn Treader" theory. (The island is a place where both dreams and nightmares--wishes and fears--destinies and fates come "true." Or take physical form.) Which leads me to another question. Are the current manifestations a result of thoughts/hopes/fears of the current survivors, or might the big, bad thing have been created 16 years ago?
Wish I had more time to continue on and also to respond to the other posters, but got to run.
Thanks so much for all your time and effort.
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Post by MaryMuse on Oct 19, 2004 15:57:46 GMT -5
What beautiful evocative writing. I loved how you got into the spiritual part of the walkabout and shambhala and used it in his episode. Your questions were the ones I had, and yeah, there is just something about Boone. I think he strikes me as too California rich boy to be trusted/believed. And Shannon. UGH! They deserve each other. Maybe they can be sacrified to the gods of the island to ensure everyone else lives?
Great job on the review!
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Post by Laura on Oct 19, 2004 21:12:42 GMT -5
Hmm. I disagree a bit here - because I'd argue that there was a moment that the Marshall asked to have his misery ended. And, that being the case, knowing that there was no way he was going to survive much longer, in my opinion killing him was the ethical thing to do. And...even had he not asked for it, there's another issue, which is the futility of trying to save someone you know probably can't be saved, and, as Sawyer pointed out, using up lots of resources that are going to be needed by others in the coming weeks and months. Had Jack found a stash of antibiotics, would it be ethical to use them all up on one person who would likely die anyway?I don't honestly know the answer to that question. I know if I was Jack, I'd probably try to save him, because I doubt I'd have the strength of character required to just let someone die even if I thought it was the right choice. But phrasing the issue that way makes it a leading question -- it suggests that the answer is "yes" or "no." It also assumes that the only question is whether it's ethical to use scant resources for the sake of the fewest users. The converse of that question is whether it's ethical to deny medicines to someone who (presumably) hasn't asked to be allowed to die. And that's an equally valid question to pose in this situation.
The real question is how do we balance the moral dilemma -- is it better to try to save the one person, in the belief that ALL life is sacred and deserving of protection; or is it better to sacrifice the one for the sake of the many -- the greater good. And no, that's not an easy issue for anyone to resolve. Frankly, I think it's an issue that, no matter which way it's answered, the decision-maker would feel self-doubt afterwards for a long time.[/size]
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