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Post by Jan on Sept 23, 2005 4:44:26 GMT -5
And one other interesting note: there's a guy named Desmond Morris who's a noted zoologist and ethnologist. On a show with folks named Rousseau and Locke, I have a hard time believing that's a coincidence. *That's* what my brain was trying to pull out from dusty recessess all day! Thanks, Sara! The name 'Desmond' was niggling at me, because I knew that I'd heard that name and that it was in conjunction to something scientific. Kept thinking it had something to do with monkeys somehow. Another piece to the puzzle? Desmond Morris wrote "The Naked Ape." ETA Thank you Linda and Sara for so much to chew on. And Rob, I agree with you entirely--I'm interested, in this age of political correctness, at whom ridicule may still be directed. Hurley's written in such a way as to be many people's favorite character, and even when others on the island underestimate him, the audience is shown that they mustn't. You're right about the love interest, though. But it would be the same for an older woman or a really old man. In the media, only the young and beautiful can be attracted or attractive.
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Post by Pixi on Sept 23, 2005 7:00:47 GMT -5
Linda - loved your analysis. I don't think my brain is suffiently caffeinated yet to reply coherently but the whole discussion of "anti-Locke" (great phraseology by the way) and the sanity discussions were fascinating reading.
Erin - I too think they should give Hurley a love interest. One thing television doesn't get at all is that people who are heavier have just as much romance/sex as those who are thin. I'm a thin person myself but I have many, many friends who are much heavier than me having an active healthy sex life. And when I was younger - they were dating as much as thinner people. The only heavier people who ever seem to have romance on television are famous leads of shows.
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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on Sept 23, 2005 8:02:41 GMT -5
This came to me while I was in the shower, but don't let that distract you (it isn't worth it) -
What if Desmond wasn't in the bunker voluntarily? What if he was put there as an Initiative-type experiment? You trap someone, you convince him that there's a plague, or nuclear winter, or alien attack, and the only way to survive is to hide in this conveniently stocked old bomb shelter, right here, and don't come out until we tell you it's safe...
That would explain the "Quarantine" sign on the inside of the hatch - it's not to keep other people away, it's to remind him that he can't go out. It might also explain why some of the equipment in the bunker seems to be too old for the rest of the timeline - the bunker is older, but more things, and Desmond, were added later.
Time to wake up Kitty and start laundry. Later!
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Post by Sara on Sept 23, 2005 8:16:48 GMT -5
Okay. I have no idea why this came to me last night, but I was thinking of Desmond and the whole significance of names thing as I tried to sleep when I remembered something: "monde" means "world" in French, so "de monde" means roughly "of world" (like Tour de France means Tour of France). Since we're talking about a guy who told Jack he intended to run around the world... Anyway. It seemed interesting last night.
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Post by Karen on Sept 23, 2005 9:56:33 GMT -5
Download for the opening song: Make Your Own Kind of MusicLyrics: Make Your Own Kind Of Music Mama Cass Elliot (Mann/Weil) Nobody can tell ya There's only one song worth singing They may try and sell ya Cause it hangs them up To see someone like you You gotta make your own kind of music Sing your own special song Make your own kind music Even if nobody else sings along It can't be nowhere The loneliest kind of lonely It may be Just to do your thing is the hardest things to do You gotta make your own kind of music Sing your own special song Make your own kind music Even if nobody else sings along And if you will not take my hand Then I must be going, I'll understand You gotta make your own kind of music Sing your own special song Make your own kind music Even if nobody else sings along You gotta make your own kind of music Sing your own special song Make your own kind music Even if nobody else sings along You gotta make your own kind of music Sing your own special song Make your own kind music Even if nobody else sings along No no no no Even if nobody else sings along If nobody else sings along -- Andre Tromp Coordinator and Webmaster of the Beautiful Thing Fanclub beautiful-thing.home.ml.orgBeautiful-Thing@CyberComm.nl BTAndre on irc (irc.dal.net:7000) #Beautiful-Thing)
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Post by Lola m on Sept 23, 2005 12:34:25 GMT -5
I haven't had a chance to read and catch up on this thread yet, but will try to get to it this weekend! Also, I grovel in advance for the typos that I see I left in my review. **grovels abjectly** Needless to say, I did it in a bit of a rush.
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Post by Sara on Sept 23, 2005 13:39:35 GMT -5
This?
When Charley is the voice of reason and calm on the island? You know you’re in deep trouble.
Made me do this:
#rofl1#
Very nice job on the review--I enjoyed it immensely.
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Post by Moscow Watcher on Sept 23, 2005 14:31:19 GMT -5
I just finished watching the downloaded version. Weird episode. Does the incident with Sarah mean that Jack has hidden healing abilities? Especially if you take into consideration that he has been able to "resurrect" Charlie back in season 1. At least that's the only explanation I see. But I doubt that writers will ever give any explanation. BTW, when I saw paintings I thought about Lurky's cave in Africa and how fans later found the scene of Willow killing Warren among other paintings in the cave. Maybe these paintings also have hidden clues? Hmmm. I've got the impression that Locke's illness was rooted in his psyche. But I may be wrong. "Late 20s" - that's how she is characterized in ER room. I think it happened 4 years ago. Or, maximum, 8. Not 15 or 16, because they're too young for that (the same with 23 and 42 option) I've got the impression that writers used the song not for pinpointing the time but for sending the message about "making your own kind of music" to stoopid audience And could Stadium!Desmond be a gallucination similar to Walt's appearance to Shannon? I thought that the whole stadium sequence was very bizarre. Both visuals and dialogues are weird and creepy. I had the "is it really happening?" moment and I was waiting for some droll resolution - so when Desmond told about "another life", I *knew* he's the hatch guy! And I totally agree about Chris Carter syndrome. There is a Russian proverb about biting off bigger chunks of pie than one can chew (don't know how to say it properly in English, sorry). I think it's the case of JJ. He creates mystery after mystery without having the least idea how to resolve them. The first season of Lost collected roughly the same nubmer of unresolvable mysteries as first seven seasons of X-files. But it's fun. Still.
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Post by Sara on Sept 23, 2005 15:38:32 GMT -5
I just finished watching the downloaded version. Weird episode. Does the incident with Sarah mean that Jack has hidden healing abilities? Especially if you take into consideration that he has been able to "resurrect" Charlie back in season 1. At least that's the only explanation I see. But I doubt that writers will ever give any explanation. Very interesting idea, though. Don't know if it'll ease any of your fears (or those of other folks), but a recent newspaper article addressed that very topic: They [producers Carlton Cuse and Damon Lindelof] both believe in the necessity of a long-range plan for the show, but they both also like to venture off the beaten track. "It's sort of like a road trip from California to New York, and these milestones are cities on the way," said Mr. Cuse. "But on a day-to-day basis, when we get up in the morning we have to make a decision: Are we taking the Interstate, or are we taking the rural byways?"
The writers had planned, for example, to ratchet up the animosity between two characters, Michael Dawson (Harold Perrineau) and Jin-Soo Kwon (Daniel Dae Kim), while developing a romance between Michael and Jin's wife, Sun (Yunjin Kim). But they became invested in the married couple's relationship as they developed their back story in Korea. Meanwhile, as Mr. Perrineau and Mr. Kim became good friends on the Hawaiian set of "Lost," the creative team sought to exploit the chemistry between them, even though their characters did not speak the same language. "When we see stuff we like, we write to it," Mr. Cuse said. "We're viewers with control."
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DESPITE the efforts of Mr. Lindelof, Mr. Cuse and the rest of the creative team to keep the show from "jumping the shark," ultimately their biggest challenge may come from their very success. Unlike J. K. Rowling, who can take comfort in knowing the Harry Potter series will wrap up after seven books, the "Lost" producers do not have such a luxury; as long as the ratings are good, it will run.
The implications for storytelling are enormous. "If we knew this series was 88 episodes, we could plot out exactly where all the pieces of mythology were going to land, and we could build very constructively to an endgame," said Mr. Cuse. "But we don't know and we can't know. For ABC, this is a very financially successful enterprise, and rightfully their goal is to have to it go along as long as they can have it go along."
Mr. Lindelof quickly interjected: "It's the equivalent of, if you get the ratings for Episode 4 of 'Roots' and you call up Alex Haley and go: 'Look, this is doing huge. Does Kunta Kinte need to be free? Can he be freed in Season 3, or even 4 or 5?' "
Frank Spotnitz, who worked on "The X-Files" for eight of its nine years as a writer and eventually as a executive producer, said that series' creator, Chris Carter, did not think the series would go past five years and planned accordingly. When ratings and financial success demanded otherwise, the producers had to improvise. Originally, the plan was to reveal the fate of the sister of Agent Mulder, the F.B.I. agent played by David Duchovny, in the fifth season. Instead, the explanation was held back until Season 7.
"The longer you tease people along, the more hooked they become on the mythology of the show and the more disappointed they'll be by however it's resolved," Mr. Spotnitz said. The emotional resolutions among the characters are more important than fitting the past piece into an ornate jigsaw puzzle, and Mr. Spotnitz is plotting his new ABC show, "Night Stalker," accordingly.
Both Mr. Lindelof and Mr. Cuse embrace Mr. Spotnitz's theory that the show is about the journey, not the ending, and sound resigned to mixed reviews no matter how they resolve the various mysteries. One thing is certain: they won't go the route of the "Matrix" trilogy, in the second installment of which one character took a seemingly interminable amount of time to tell Keanu Reeves's character just what the Matrix was, his role in it and what was going to happen to him in the final movie.
"It's unsatisfying on every level to me as a storyteller, and to most people who saw it," Mr. Lindelof said. "The fact there is someone there to definitively tell me that I was wrong, that my imagination was wrong, is uncool."
But the creators do know how the series ends. The survivors will not learn they are part of some dastardly experiment, or discover they are in purgatory, or wake up from a bad dream. "These guys get off the island," said Mr. Cuse.
Then, nearly in unison, both men add, "If it's an island."You can read the entire article in the "Interviews and Articles" thread--it's the second one on page 2.
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karen fell off the board
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Post by karen fell off the board on Sept 23, 2005 16:13:13 GMT -5
Then, nearly in unison, both men add, "If it's an island." [/color] [/quote] #yikes# It's a spaceship! Patti was right!!
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Post by Lola m on Sept 23, 2005 16:34:31 GMT -5
This? When Charley is the voice of reason and calm on the island? You know you’re in deep trouble.Made me do this: Very nice job on the review--I enjoyed it immensely. Thanks, Sara! Looking forward to finally reading this ep thread, now that I've done my bit!
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Post by Dragon on Sept 23, 2005 17:02:03 GMT -5
I must admit I was a little meh too. Probably because I am soooooooo uninterested in Jack's backstory. I almost, almost started fast-forwarding through bride on the bed scenes. And the insertion of running up the stadium stair dude as the mysterious hatch guy left me going whahuh? The way he kept calling Jack - 'brother' was a little weird. And his comment about 'miracles' - and then one happened. I don't know what to make of any of it. Liked the Mamas and the Papas song, except that it seems to screw up the timeline. Just how long ago did Jack and 'Desmond, was it?' meet, and how long has he been on that island? I need to rewatch that scene in the stadium. There was a name for the exercise they were doing - running the stairs. (ETA - 'tour de stade' - thanks, Matthew!) It's like a puzzle before you figure out which pieces fit together. I get frustrated if I don't start to see the picture in the puzzle soon. Maybe they are brothers and Jack has no Idea. In fact, he may be a part of each person's back story as just someone in the background. As for Jack's bedside manner, he had just chosen her over another patient and the man died. (If Matthew didn't tell you, his name is the same last name as Shannon's). So, some guilt would apply, so he goes for the no hope style. His father talks to him and then he deals with the fiance, (real jerk), and feels bad about telling her the things he did, and the way he did. Then she talks to him with so much humor and courage before the operation and out of his mouth come the "promise". I'm sure he probably wanted to take the words back as soon as he said them, but couldn't. I also doubt that she believed him, probably thought he was trying to give her hope. The run was his punishment for himself for making made a promise he knew at the time he couldn't keep. Also it kept him away from the hospital when she first woke up. Usually a patient is awakend to make sure they will wake up, then let fall back asleep. Since she was in an upraised position, she had probably requested it. The tears were for his guilt in making the promise when he shouldn't have, especially since he was drawn to her enough to want to promise her he would fix her. He didn't believe in miracles, at least, not until then. He told her about the run and the ankle, to avoid talking about what had to be talked about, probably without realizing what he was saying at the time. He was so happy to be wrong about her and get the miracle he never thought would happen that he was drrawn to her more and more. She was a very special peson to him from the beginning. He had chosen her, and from that moment on, she was a very important part of his life. At least that is the way I looked at it. Hope is very precious to everyone, but from her words, she had little hope, if any that she would be able to walk again. But he did fix her and I'm sure he was her hero. Makes for an unusual love story, and possibly one that wouldn't last. I have rambled on too long. Dragon
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Post by Dragon on Sept 23, 2005 17:15:48 GMT -5
Unprofessional, in that he got emotionally involved with her. It was unclear to me if he was acquainted with her previously - I didn't think he was, and it was strange to me that he was so emotional with her. Or, maybe it was the guilt from chosing to work on her when the guy in the SUV was closer to dying?That's what I thought. And after telling her he would "fix her" --which was spelled out as being against his pattern--knowing he had failed. Plus it didn't hurt that she was a hottie with a loving and forgiving personality. And funny. And the she IS fixed. And he's very young. Definitely overinvolved, but the reasons all seem to be there. I think what they chose to show in the recap was important, one of those things being his dad putting him down for trying to do something good and failing. Jack having an alcoholic dad also speaks to his lack of hope and the bedside manner that doesn't include hope, and his need to control outcomes. I guess I'm one of the only ones who didn't feel disappointed in the show. I was right there with them all the way. I want to know what happened to the Three Men in a Boat (ok, on a raft), and why the island was quarantined from those in the hatch, and about the shrine and the magnet and the computer and about the Others and why they knew about and wanted Walt. I'm psyched. You aren't alone, I loved it. I thought it was great! I want to find out about the raft, to. But I'm sure they will make it back. The underground guy has suppliers, Klieg lights are pretty new and a lot of the stuff he had was new. Look and you will see. So there is a way to get inside besides the bunker top. Also, he may have been alerted by the other explosion, and that is why the mirror is there. I told Matthew that I don't think he is with the "others", but is seperate from them. Since the quarantine is on the inside of the hatch, he may be taking some kind of drug that will keep his thoughts from happening. It reminds me a little of the Star Trek episode on the pleasure planet. It made peoples' dreams appear to be real. Dragon
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Post by Dragon on Sept 23, 2005 17:39:01 GMT -5
So, in summary...you're not happy with the show? More like "meh". If I miss an episode, I'm not going to be heartbroken. I do love Hurley, though. I love him too, great character. Wonder why he was in an institution. He also seems to be extremely intelligent. People just don't notice because of the way he talks. I think Jack is afraid to believe him, with so much else on the island going against his ever so logical mind. He is going to absolutely freak now that Desmond is there. I like the X-File type of story, just hated the way it was crushed, twisted, spindled, broken and tortured in every possible way at the end. X-Files could have had a much better last couple of years. It was almost as if Carter quit caring what he wrote, or about the fans of the show. Gotta go, work is closing! Dragon
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Post by SpringSummers on Sept 23, 2005 18:08:07 GMT -5
Lola:
Nice work on the review. I definitely agree on the overall idea of how the show was not trying to say either Science or Faith is wrong, but rather that we all use both, each according to our own sensibilities, in the various situations which confront us - and further, that the wisdom of using one or the other, varies by person or situation - not that they are always mutually incompatible, because they aren't. Sometimes - like to recover from catastrophic damage to your spine - you need both.
Also, like this line: "Will Sawyer be alive and, more importantly, shirtless?" You really know how to get right down to the most important stuff, don't you? Nice work!
Got some giggles from your captions and enjoyed your review. Thanks, Lola!!
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