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Post by Jan on Sept 24, 2005 6:21:54 GMT -5
Lola: Nice work on the review. I definitely agree on the overall idea of how the show was not trying to say either Science or Faith is wrong, but rather that we all use both, each according to our own sensibilities, in the various situations which confront us - and further, that the wisdom of using one or the other, varies by person or situation - not that they are always mutually incompatible, because they aren't. Sometimes - like to recover from catastrophic damage to your spine - you need both. Also, like this line: "Will Sawyer be alive and, more importantly, shirtless?" You really know how to get right down to the most important stuff, don't you? Nice work! Got some giggles from your captions and enjoyed your review. Thanks, Lola!! #metoo# I'm terrible about writing feedback that is specific and maybe helpful, but I wanted to thank you for writing this and tell you that I had fun reading it and took away some chewy stuff. #claps#
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Post by Karen on Sept 24, 2005 7:51:38 GMT -5
Nice review, Lola! Thank you!! I had assumed from the title that the episode was highlighting the fact that Locke and Jack are polar (not bears!) entities - but you are so right about it being more than that. All the characters are more than what they seem on the outside - and are in fact changing. We have seen even bitchy/self-centered Shannen step up at times. And WE know that Hurley is more than he seems, too. Our playhouse has just been expanded and remodeled.Oh, yeah. Lots of new toys to play with. You had me chuckling at your 'bitchin' music' comment. What? Mama Cass is very bitchin'! And LOLing at Sawyer – we miss you!!! We want to know if you’re alive! We want to know if you’re shirtless with a sexy wound! ;D I agree that the flashback didn’t provide enough of a link to the current storyline. I was curious as to what was on Desmond's shirt during the stadium scene. It looked like a red blotch - I thought maybe blood at first, but it looked more like a "stamped-on" something. As I was trolling LJ this morning, I came across someone who was more curious about it than me: this is what was on desmond's uniform and locker. the eight trigrams around the picture in the center are known as BAGUA in chinese.www.livejournal.com/users/speakerwiggin/250579.html#cutid1Cool beans stuff. The Yin and Yang stuff - and the bits about how they seem light and dark, but are in actuality constantly changing, fits in with your statement here: All episode long we’re presented with opposing pairs of characters, constantly shifting over any kind of line you try to draw between what is factual and what is believed or felt.And again here: I could be totally wrong, but I would suggest that this episode is not trying to somehow present these two ideas (or even the two characters of Jack and Locke) as standing on opposite sides of a mythical line, nor is it trying to have either “side” win. It’s pointing out the complexity and layers of all the characters – in all their very messy and very human variety. EETAH! Nicely done, Lola!
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Post by Karen on Sept 24, 2005 8:07:43 GMT -5
Hi everyone, I'm not caught up with the main board, 'cause of RL crunches and insane jealousy about S'cubiefest--thanks Jan!!!! other matters. My memory is particularly swiss-cheesey this week. I've probably failed to notice a lot of stuff. However, random minutiae: In the hatch: That was the cleanest, shiniest sink I've ever seen. It really was! Very high-techy looking, too. Very shiny! The 'quarantine' label was on the inside of the hatch cover. So, what was being quarantined - Desmond or the Island? Hee! Hurley is the anti-Locke brakes! Love that. And I agree. Hurley is the key. At one point Jack told Locke that he thought he was going crazy. Curious. The man of science, when faced with the unexplainable will insist he's going crazy instead of believing that there might be a supernatural explanation for the unknown. Funny - Rose thought Jack had good bedside manner - a "way" about him. Oh yeah - Walt's appearance - I was so shocked that I thought I might be the one hallucinating and not Shannen. I thought he was saying 'don't go near the hatch' - he warned them not to open it, didn't he? Good point about what Jack will do for a woman. He also went after his father in Australia on his mother's urging. That was in the pre-show flashback hour. Which also included lots of talk about 'the others'. Both in meaning 'the others' as in the lostaways who weren't with the current group and CFL's talk of 'the others'. Hmmm. EETAH! No pretty Hawaii! I hope we see some gorgeous shirtless Sawyer beach action soon!
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Post by Karen on Sept 24, 2005 8:32:38 GMT -5
Ok, the 8-sided thing that Desmond had on his locker and shirt that I referenced above is a feng shui thing: "The 8-sided octagon contains eight human aspects needed for survival, plus a center cog of "the wheel" of life called Health, ruled by the element earth, to keep us grounded. Here are the 8 aspects: Red - Fame, Recognition, Fire - Charlie? Sayid? Pink - Marriage, Relationships, Earth - Sun? Claire? White - Children, Creativity, Metal - Walt? Aaron? Sayid? Grey - Travel, Helpful People - Desmond? Boone? Black - Career, Lifepath, Water - Jack? Sawyer? Blue - Knowledge - Locke? Sawyer? Jack? Kate? Sayid? Green - Family, Health, Wood - Claire? Sun? Purple - Wealth, Opportunity - Hurley? Not sure what the cog would be - unless the island can be called the cog because it is 'earth'. Or maybe Jack, because he's a doctor - the 'health' thing? Probably doesn't mean anything really, but it was a fun distraction.
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Post by Karen on Sept 24, 2005 8:49:34 GMT -5
*That's* what my brain was trying to pull out from dusty recessess all day! Thanks, Sara! The name 'Desmond' was niggling at me, because I knew that I'd heard that name and that it was in conjunction to something scientific. Kept thinking it had something to do with monkeys somehow. Another piece to the puzzle? Desmond Morris wrote "The Naked Ape." ETA Thank you Linda and Sara for so much to chew on. And Rob, I agree with you entirely--I'm interested, in this age of political correctness, at whom ridicule may still be directed. Hurley's written in such a way as to be many people's favorite character, and even when others on the island underestimate him, the audience is shown that they mustn't. You're right about the love interest, though. But it would be the same for an older woman or a really old man. In the media, only the young and beautiful can be attracted or attractive. Ah, ha! Thanks!
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Post by Karen on Sept 24, 2005 8:51:50 GMT -5
This came to me while I was in the shower, but don't let that distract you (it isn't worth it) - What if Desmond wasn't in the bunker voluntarily? What if he was put there as an Initiative-type experiment? You trap someone, you convince him that there's a plague, or nuclear winter, or alien attack, and the only way to survive is to hide in this conveniently stocked old bomb shelter, right here, and don't come out until we tell you it's safe... That would explain the "Quarantine" sign on the inside of the hatch - it's not to keep other people away, it's to remind him that he can't go out. It might also explain why some of the equipment in the bunker seems to be too old for the rest of the timeline - the bunker is older, but more things, and Desmond, were added later. Time to wake up Kitty and start laundry. Later! I buy your theory! And I think Jan mentioned it, too. That the island is the thing that is quarantined.
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Post by Karen on Sept 24, 2005 9:00:26 GMT -5
I just finished watching the downloaded version. Weird episode. Does the incident with Sarah mean that Jack has hidden healing abilities? Especially if you take into consideration that he has been able to "resurrect" Charlie back in season 1. At least that's the only explanation I see. But I doubt that writers will ever give any explanation. BTW, when I saw paintings I thought about Lurky's cave in Africa and how fans later found the scene of Willow killing Warren among other paintings in the cave. Maybe these paintings also have hidden clues? Hmmm. I've got the impression that Locke's illness was rooted in his psyche. But I may be wrong. "Late 20s" - that's how she is characterized in ER room. I think it happened 4 years ago. Or, maximum, 8. Not 15 or 16, because they're too young for that (the same with 23 and 42 option) I've got the impression that writers used the song not for pinpointing the time but for sending the message about "making your own kind of music" to stoopid audience And could Stadium!Desmond be a gallucination similar to Walt's appearance to Shannon? I thought that the whole stadium sequence was very bizarre. Both visuals and dialogues are weird and creepy. I had the "is it really happening?" moment and I was waiting for some droll resolution - so when Desmond told about "another life", I *knew* he's the hatch guy! And I totally agree about Chris Carter syndrome. There is a Russian proverb about biting off bigger chunks of pie than one can chew (don't know how to say it properly in English, sorry). I think it's the case of JJ. He creates mystery after mystery without having the least idea how to resolve them. The first season of Lost collected roughly the same nubmer of unresolvable mysteries as first seven seasons of X-files. But it's fun. Still. Very fun! What is 'Lurky's cave'? You mean in "Buffy"? Interesting. I didn't know that about the Willow/Warren painting in the cave. About the number 108 that is on the wall: 4 + 8 + 15 + 16 + 23 + 42 = 108Check it out here - more theories than you can shake a stick at. Have the writers bitten off more than they can chew? I suppose the hard part will get us to swallow.
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Post by Dragon on Sept 24, 2005 12:10:41 GMT -5
So...with all the other bizarre things that have happened, you wouldn't open your mind to the possibility?I don't know. I just don't understand what Hurley's done wrong. He's loyal, keeps things light, does whatever he is asked...yet no one on the island shows him the barest hint of respect, even after his easy handling of Rousseau and the battery. Of course, I could be overly defensive of Hugo because we're both weight-challenged (though Jorge Garcia appears to have lost several pounds). Jack probably would've reacted the same way if it'd been Charlie or Kate as well. I'm curious what Locke's response to Hurley's story would be, though. I'm betting he would at least listen. Oh, yes! I'm open to all possibilities - that's why I put in my disclaimer "(when I was younger)" - which might have been too vague, huh? And I agree, Jack would've acted the same if it would've been Charlie, but if it would've been Sayid or Kate - I don't know - I think he would've taken them more seriously, but then again, only up to a point. I don't think Jack is that open to anyone else's opinions - yet. But I think that will change. Like Locke said when Jack said he didn't believe in destiny - "You will." At this point, I think in Locke's mind, it's 'all about him' (Locke). He seems to feel he's immune to the island danger. And he just doesn't take Hurley seriously either. Maybe that's the key - they all have to start taking Hurley more seriously. I am beginning to think that Jack did at one time believe in destiny, when he was getting married. Whatever happened with that marriage may have changed not only his mind but his belief system. With his haircut and his tattoo, something serious caused him to fold in on himself, lose confidence and question everything he does. He didn't want to lead the group, but was talked into it. Before, he was a natural leader, if a little cold in his attitude. He has done things on the island that at one time would have been completely against his code of ethics. We still haven't seen what caused the transformation. Hurley's tale would have racheted up his already confused attitude about everything around him. I think he finds it difficult to add more confusion to the already scary circumstances, since he is reluctantly trying to deal with the things he has already seen. A curse is the last thing he wants to think about. Also, Hurley has been a rock for him and he may be thinking the rock is crumbling. He scoffs to make the statement seem less important, not realizing that Hurley believes it completely. There is a lot more to Hurley than most on the island see or notice. Given the numbers with the bad luck curse and his flight on a plane he was obviously not supposed to take. I think he may have a pivotal role in what is going on. Dragon
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Post by Lola m on Sept 25, 2005 22:05:57 GMT -5
Okay, I seriously feel like decking Locke. Setting aside everything else, he's completely undermining Jack's attempt to calm everyone down and keep anyone from panicking. I almost hope that the crazy 70s man shoots him--in a non-fatal way, of course, so Jack can dance the "I told you so" jig on Locke's head. You're like psychic or something! Seeing as how by the end of the ep, the crazy 70's man has a gun to Locke's head and Jack is being told to put his weapon down or Locke will be shot. ;D Finally getting a chance to read through this thread. Now, I just have to catch up on the rest of Havoc's BSG reviews and Julia's fic and all the other LJ stuff and . . . . **faints**
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Post by Lola m on Sept 25, 2005 22:07:23 GMT -5
I will also venture to say that flashback-Jack looks seriously adorable with those heavy bangs.
GAIL Totally!! And they did that magic TV stuff where they make his face look so young. It was like looking at sweet!baby!Jack. ;D
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Post by Lola m on Sept 25, 2005 22:07:56 GMT -5
So all this time, hatch-guy has been keeping in shape for the right girl, perhaps? #rofl1#
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Post by Lola m on Sept 25, 2005 22:10:55 GMT -5
How long would Jack have lasted as a doctor if he was as unprofessional with all patients as he was with Sarah?
I wonder if Sarah lost her mobility after she married Jack, and their marriage fell apart?
Serious weirdness at the end of the episode.
And is poor little Walt dead, since Shannon saw him?
GAIL Eeep! I never thought about the idea of Walt being dead! It's making me remember the eeeekness of Walt being grabbed at the end of the last season. I'm betting we're gonna get alternating episodes, or sometimes alternating scenes, showing us the island group and the raft group. But somehow I don't think we'll get answers on Walt right away.
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Post by Lola m on Sept 25, 2005 22:14:04 GMT -5
I have a very so-so reaction to this premiere. It was OK. Not exactly filled with a "can't wait for next week!" feeling. Crazy French Lady, now Crazy . . . what?. . . English? Australian? I didn't pay a lot of attention to the accent . . guy. There are so many characters to keep track of, already. I know we lost Boone, but we gotta gain this guy? And he seems unrelated to the "others" who kidnapped Walt, but who knows. And I am perilously close to adding "who cares?" So, Desmond is, like, the "Angel of Fate." He gives Jack a miracle (in fact, Sarah has the same miracle as Locke); then later arranges for him to wind up on the island to somehow repay the miracle? Have the others got interactions with Desmond in the past? How long ago was the marriage to Sarah? Desmond was off the island then. Isn't the a computer? Not from the sixties. Was that Walt or just Walt projecting an image of himself -- a "vision" to Shannon. Shouldn't they have been following Vincent? Agree with Spring----more and more and more and more lose characters and plot points being introduced with little resolution on any front. And seriously slow development in the mid-section of the story. Of course, I complained of BSG feeling similarly recently (too many plot threads at once; all depressing; and no real movement on any of them----and suddenly last week lots of action on many fronts much of it positive. Ooooh, brainshare on the Sarah&Locke paralysis mirror and Walt maybe projecting himself. I'm feeling kind of excited about the different places and characters we'll be seeing. I don't think we'll get tons of new people, (that would be unrealistic), and I hope the threads all stay . . . plausibly connected, as it were.
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Post by Lola m on Sept 25, 2005 22:14:52 GMT -5
So, Desmond is, like, the "Angel of Fate." He gives Jack a miracle (in fact, Sarah has the same miracle as Locke); then later arranges for him to wind up on the island to somehow repay the miracle? Have the others got interactions with Desmond in the past? Hmm--very interesting observation about the parallel between the two. I wonder if Jack would make the connection if he knew about Locke, and how he would feel about it if he did. Greg places the computer in the late 70s, early 80s--which does jive with the presence of a turntable. However, if we presume Matthew Fox and Julie Bowen's characters are close to their actual ages, then what we see of their first meeting has to take place in the late 80s-early 90s--Fox was born in 1966, Bowen in 1970. I'm not buying Sarah as much younger than 19 or 20, and if Jack has recently become a doctor then he has to be at least in his mid 20s. So we could infer that the quarantine room was there before Desmond arrived on the island, and he was somehow compelled--or forced--to lock himself in. They were following Vincent--who essentially led Shannon to the place where she had her vision. And who's to say it wasn't the island itself that created the image of Walt to let Shannon know something was going on? Although since we know there was something uncanny about Walt even before he was stranded, I'm more than willing to believe he was behind the projection as well. I'm still in the "it doesn't bother me" camp, myself. I like learning more about the castaways and trying to figure out how the past events we're seeing tie in with what they're experiencing now. Because of that, I'm willing to give them some more time. I really liked Shannon's determination to find Vincent--the woman we first met probably wouldn't have agreed to keep the dog, much less care about finding him again. The old Shannon, I suspect, would have shrugged and figured "oh well--tough luck kid." I may have more thoughts in the morning, but for now I'm thinking bed is an excellent plan. **nods nods**
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Post by Lola m on Sept 25, 2005 22:15:56 GMT -5
And now you all get the benefit of my obsessive note-taking. Previouslies… NUMBERS!!!!!! Hurley has the right idea. Beep? Beep? Beep? Who is this? That could be contemporary, that’s about a thousand dollar turntable.. But the music and the computer terminal argue for older. Smoothies are new, though. Steroid shooting.. boom? oh shit it’s in the vault!!!!!!!! In the bunker!!!!! THAT’s why Rom was so damned strong., he was one of Walsh’s commandos!!!!! They got some issues in going down that hole, with that kind of firepower waiting for them… #rofl1# Walsh's commandos! Of course - why didn't I see that before! ;D
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