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Post by Rob on May 27, 2006 0:42:57 GMT -5
What was this . . . cut from an episode? I don't recall seeing any of this! I recall Captain Cortez telling Ana-Lucia that Jason McCormick's (God, they can't even get the guy's name right! : body had been discovered in "Two For the Road". I also recall Ana telling Teresa that she wanted to come home. She was in Sydney, at the time. So, in which episode was this shown?The same episode that caused you to announce a permanent viewing stoppage. Well...the first announcement, I think. Might have to check the archives.
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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on May 27, 2006 8:49:10 GMT -5
I'm sorry, but this doesn't make any sense. Why bother to go through the trouble? Why not simply kill Michael . . . quietly . . . after blindfolding Jack, Sawyer and Kate? Because then they might have to deal with a very very unhappy child who can make things happen with his brain? Henry seemed happy to be rid of Walt: as if they'd bit off more then they could chew. Early in the episode "Two For the Road". "Insufficient data" to answer most of these: but while Henry did not get to spend much time in the company of the Lostaways on the list, Ethan spent time amongst them, observing them. We don't have a 24-hour Jack-Cam (As much as Monnie might like the idea) so we don't know what he does when he's by himself: and as Sara pointed out, he compartmentalizes, like any good surgeon has to. I'd disagree on that being sloppy writing: Jack is shown as being someone who will do ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING in his power to alleviate pain, and to try to heal. He worked on the Marshall until Sawyer screwed up his attempt at euthanasia, then quietly (I think) cut his throat or smothered him, when there was nothing more to do: he gave his own O-negative blood to try to save Boone and to stop him from suffering: he saw Libby suffering and that, to me, is his trigger: seeing people in pain. That's what I think causes him to go all in, on anything. Libby he felt immediate and present pain for because of her suffering: a long, inevitable, painful death. Ana-Lucia was beyond help, AND beyond suffering: he can focus on mourning for her later, after he's helped Libby in whatever way he can. You'll note that this time, Jack took the lead in being the shaman at Ana-Lucia's funeral service: something he hasn't done before. I think that speaks to his loss of her more than just about anything else. Above in red: Good Goddess, you're right. *Smacks self on the head* I was thinking so hard about Michael that I'd forgotten about Walt, a traumatized, unhappy young boy with anger management issues (takes after his dad?) and psychic powers who can kill you with his brain. I wouldn't want to deal with Walt in a tantrum. No wonder the Others wanted them gone. So... Maybe Michael and Walt really will escape the force field or alien influence or whatever of the island, get safely out to sea, and meet up with - Penelope's rescue/investigation party looking for Desmond? As the president said after watching the message from the Black Lectroids, it's certainly food for thought. I was thinking about Jack - I suspect he's of the cope-now-freak-later school, like me. Right now he's in cope mode, and holding everything together. He'll fall apart at some point, and possibly at the worst possible time, just for the dramatic effect on the story. Yes, I have a nasty suspicious mind. You're right, caring about people in pain is one of the things that makes Jack a good doctor. Anne, leaving now, in search of tea
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Post by Lola m on May 27, 2006 10:30:04 GMT -5
Because then they might have to deal with a very very unhappy child who can make things happen with his brain? Henry seemed happy to be rid of Walt: as if they'd bit off more then they could chew. Early in the episode "Two For the Road". "Insufficient data" to answer most of these: but while Henry did not get to spend much time in the company of the Lostaways on the list, Ethan spent time amongst them, observing them. We don't have a 24-hour Jack-Cam (As much as Monnie might like the idea) so we don't know what he does when he's by himself: and as Sara pointed out, he compartmentalizes, like any good surgeon has to. I'd disagree on that being sloppy writing: Jack is shown as being someone who will do ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING in his power to alleviate pain, and to try to heal. He worked on the Marshall until Sawyer screwed up his attempt at euthanasia, then quietly (I think) cut his throat or smothered him, when there was nothing more to do: he gave his own O-negative blood to try to save Boone and to stop him from suffering: he saw Libby suffering and that, to me, is his trigger: seeing people in pain. That's what I think causes him to go all in, on anything. Libby he felt immediate and present pain for because of her suffering: a long, inevitable, painful death. Ana-Lucia was beyond help, AND beyond suffering: he can focus on mourning for her later, after he's helped Libby in whatever way he can. You'll note that this time, Jack took the lead in being the shaman at Ana-Lucia's funeral service: something he hasn't done before. I think that speaks to his loss of her more than just about anything else. Above in red: Good Goddess, you're right. *Smacks self on the head* I was thinking so hard about Michael that I'd forgotten about Walt, a traumatized, unhappy young boy with anger management issues (takes after his dad?) and psychic powers who can kill you with his brain. I wouldn't want to deal with Walt in a tantrum. No wonder the Others wanted them gone. So... Maybe Michael and Walt really will escape the force field or alien influence or whatever of the island, get safely out to sea, and meet up with - Penelope's rescue/investigation party looking for Desmond? As the president said after watching the message from the Black Lectroids, it's certainly food for thought. I was thinking about Jack - I suspect he's of the cope-now-freak-later school, like me. Right now he's in cope mode, and holding everything together. He'll fall apart at some point, and possibly at the worst possible time, just for the dramatic effect on the story. Yes, I have a nasty suspicious mind. You're right, caring about people in pain is one of the things that makes Jack a good doctor. Anne, leaving now, in search of tea Eetah on the Mattew idea of the Others perhaps being rather glad to get rid of Walt. I mean, I was thinking they'd already done their experiments or whatever and so no longer had a need for him. But it is actually very very plausible (with what we know of Walt's history) that they might tell themselves that they were done and now (because they're not evil, oh no, they're the good guys) they should let him go with his father. And inside they're all going "eeep! get this kid out of here before he does some really serious damage!" ;D
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Post by Sue on May 27, 2006 11:12:06 GMT -5
I'm probably not at all on board with a theory that says the others let Walt go because he was too much to handle or they were relieved to see him go.
Either they were done with him (which is doubtful in my mind) or there is a plan to his being let go. Either he is a spy or perhaps has orders to kill Michael and return.
Wouldn't that be un-divine retribution? Kill innocents and betray others to get back your son and have him turn on you. Now that might actually cause me to have some major sympathy for Michael.
Still: where are all those other children who were stolen and what has happened to them?
BTW: the Others were creepy enough when they were just previously stranded victims who had devolved and gone all Lord of the Flies. If (as it now seems) they are actually highly intelligent and organized and are deliberately stealing children from their parents, killing and manipulating our tribe then they are many many times more scary.
Not that I for one moment thing that they are "in charge" or top of the food chain, although they may think it.
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Post by SpringSummers on May 27, 2006 13:53:22 GMT -5
Penny was paying Portuguese persons... 1) It was like Spanish, only more liquidy, and did not sound like Italian: "m" in place of "n" and "r" in place of "l" 2) I cheated: I had the captioning on, and it said "(speaking Portuguese)" before they started talking. Portuguese persons in the snowy trackless wilderness? Huh. More unnecessary weirdness. It's all too weary-making. Was I the only one who thought the Portuguese guy who made the phone call (the one with the glasses) looked a whole lot like Matthew Fox?
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Post by SpringSummers on May 27, 2006 13:55:36 GMT -5
Just another manifestation of the Great Schizophrenia Spirit. What I was wondering was - which of them conjured it? Kate brings the horse, Walt the polar bear, etc. Whose was the bird? I assumed Hurley if he thought it was saying his name. And Eko went nose to nose with the big black cloud. Later in the ep, when they are in that clearing before they get shot with darts, you can hear "Elizabeth" being whispered.
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Post by SpringSummers on May 27, 2006 14:11:21 GMT -5
Okay I posted this on the main thread and no one responded so reposting it over here (unless someone responded after I was gone and if so I apologize) This is the second time I've read that Matthew Fox was one of the Portuguese guys at the end. Anyone else notice that? OK. So I'm not the only one who noticed a similarity. I just couldn't decide if it was him, or not. One minute it looked like him, the next minute it didn't. I'm going to go with "not him," because really, that would just be almost too weird. And that's saying a lot. Mostly, the show, mystery-wise, is getting too . . dense . . . for lack of a better word . . . for me. I'm sure I wouldn't watch it at all if it wasn't for the fun of coming to this thread. The four-toes seems to suggest alien-origin stuff, and the journals all spilled out into nowhere suggests that the observers were being conned, as Desmond suggested. I am hoping next season they take a break from introducing new characters and new mysteries and new backstory, let us get to know our remaining characters better in the context of their current situation and relationships, and start to provide some basic solutions.
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Post by SpringSummers on May 27, 2006 14:17:16 GMT -5
Ladies and gentlemen, for your safety and the enjoyment of everyone here on the S'cubie Board Safari, please remember: don't litter, keep your hands inside the vehicle's windows, and refrain from the temptation to feed the trolls.
Thank you for your attention! You may return to your regularly scheduled S'cubiedom! I do think all the "button-pushing" imagery relates back to the way that phrase is often used . . . should you push someone's button, or not? Should you have your button out there to be pushed? Willl explosions occur if button-pushing is eschewed? Who controls the reaction, if your button is pushed? How quickly does button pushing get out of control? Etc.
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Post by Sara on May 27, 2006 14:25:12 GMT -5
Portuguese persons in the snowy trackless wilderness? Huh. More unnecessary weirdness. It's all too weary-making. Was I the only one who thought the Portuguese guy who made the phone call (the one with the glasses) looked a whole lot like Matthew Fox? Nope. In fact, if you go back to page 18 you'll see where we had a brief discussion about that very thing--I even posted pictures of the guy.
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Post by Karen on May 27, 2006 14:28:38 GMT -5
Ladies and gentlemen, for your safety and the enjoyment of everyone here on the S'cubie Board Safari, please remember: don't litter, keep your hands inside the vehicle's windows, and refrain from the temptation to feed the trolls.
Thank you for your attention! You may return to your regularly scheduled S'cubiedom! I do think all the "button-pushing" imagery relates back to the way that phrase is often used . . . should you push someone's button, or not? Should you have your button out there to be pushed? Willl explosions occur if button-pushing is eschewed? Who controls the reaction, if your button is pushed? How quickly does button pushing get out of control? Etc. To button push, or not to button push. That is the question: Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, Or to take arms against a sea of troubles, And by opposing end them? To die: to sleep; No more; and by a sleep to say we end The heart-ache and the thousand natural shocks That flesh is heir to, 'tis a consummation Devoutly to be wish'd. To die, to sleep; To sleep: perchance to dream: ay, there's the rub; For in that sleep of death what dreams may come...
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Post by SpringSummers on May 28, 2006 8:09:30 GMT -5
I'm probably not at all on board with a theory that says the others let Walt go because he was too much to handle or they were relieved to see him go. Either they were done with him (which is doubtful in my mind) or there is a plan to his being let go. Either he is a spy or perhaps has orders to kill Michael and return. Wouldn't that be un-divine retribution? Kill innocents and betray others to get back your son and have him turn on you. Now that might actually cause me to have some major sympathy for Michael. Still: where are all those other children who were stolen and what has happened to them? BTW: the Others were creepy enough when they were just previously stranded victims who had devolved and gone all Lord of the Flies. If (as it now seems) they are actually highly intelligent and organized and are deliberately stealing children from their parents, killing and manipulating our tribe then they are many many times more scary. Not that I for one moment thing that they are "in charge" or top of the food chain, although they may think it. Speaking of the divine, I got a very "Jesus-story in reverse" vibe from the way Michael was talking. "Sacrificing everyone to save his son" as opposed to "sacrificing His son to save everyone," cementing even further the idea that Michael has made a "dark side" choice.
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Post by rich on May 28, 2006 11:20:05 GMT -5
Words cannot express how bummed I was at not being able to watch this with everyone last night. Especially because I had actual interesting information to contribute: Penelope? Was also the name of Odysseus's wife. You know, the one who waited for him (in her case for twenty years) as he made his way home across the seas, remaining faithful to him despite enormous pressure to remarry (in fact, she showed herself almost as smart and resourceful as her famous husband by insisting that she could not marry anyone until she'd finished weaving a burial shroud for her father-in-law; she'd work on the shroud by day, only to unravel all her work each evening). Not at all meaningful in terms of last night's story, huh? And did not Penelope hold off 108 suitors while awaiting Odysseus's return? Also I'm wondering if Penelope is one and the same person as the Hanso site hacker Persephone? The "heir apparent" easter egg on the Hanso site showed a blonde woman purported to be Persephone.
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Post by Jan on May 28, 2006 16:14:09 GMT -5
What a great group of Talky Meat. I enjoyed reading this so much. I went to the Hanso job site and read the descriptions of qualifications. The long list for the personal assistant includes Lacanian psychology as one of the accepted PhDs. I googled that and found this page: www.guidetopsychology.com/terrorism.htmApplied to LOST it was interesting reading, including this line: "... in psychological terms, the social world really is a fraud. All of the meaning we attribute to our human creations, including language itself, has no value beyond its own reference, for, as Lacan was fond of saying, “There is no Other of the Other.”
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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on May 28, 2006 16:35:59 GMT -5
What a great group of Talky Meat. I enjoyed reading this so much. I went to the Hanso job site and read the descriptions of qualifications. The long list for the personal assistant includes Lacanian psychology as one of the accepted PhDs. I googled that and found this page: www.guidetopsychology.com/terrorism.htmApplied to LOST it was interesting reading, including this line: "... in psychological terms, the social world really is a fraud. All of the meaning we attribute to our human creations, including language itself, has no value beyond its own reference, for, as Lacan was fond of saying, “There is no Other of the Other.” Dude. That's like, whoa.
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Post by Sue on May 28, 2006 16:50:16 GMT -5
What a great group of Talky Meat. I enjoyed reading this so much. I went to the Hanso job site and read the descriptions of qualifications. The long list for the personal assistant includes Lacanian psychology as one of the accepted PhDs. I googled that and found this page: www.guidetopsychology.com/terrorism.htmApplied to LOST it was interesting reading, including this line: "... in psychological terms, the social world really is a fraud. All of the meaning we attribute to our human creations, including language itself, has no value beyond its own reference, for, as Lacan was fond of saying, “There is no Other of the Other.” Dude. That's like, whoa. What she said. And since even my words have no value beyond their own reference it hardly matters that I can make no coherent response to their gobbledygook. ;D
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