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Post by SpringSummers on Nov 2, 2006 19:52:48 GMT -5
So why didn't the black smoke kill him in "The 23rd Psalms"? It wasn't hungry enough at the time? It had probably just had a big meal of wild boar, with coconuts for dessert! But to be fair, the smoke didn't try to eat him the first time, just kill him. So my theory is that the first smoke was the baby smoke - too little to kill him. And the second smoke was the mamma smoke. And it was jussssst right!
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Post by Rob on Nov 2, 2006 20:46:41 GMT -5
I'm going to set aside the internet showbiz gossip mill for the moment (since we all know that stuff is mostly pointless and speculative crap) and try to focus on the story being told. During "Psalm 23," Eko was still in the process of getting ready...or choosing his path. However one wants to say it. Now, it's true we had every indication that Eko was doing penance for the crimes of his past...but at some point (I believe it's partly when he realized last season that the code must be entered to survive), he arrived at the conclusion that moral absolutes aren't so...well, absolute. Think about it; neither the gangster warlords of his childhood nor the church gave an inch in either direction. He tried to protect himself and his own...and in that pursuit, he did increasingly awful things. Once a person starts down that kind of road, the only way to turn that around is change his environment altogether...and that wasn't happening. Instead of fighting the system, he chose to work his way up and survive the only way he knew. Yemi, on the other hand, chose to work within the system, trying to help as much as he could within the framework of his society. I doubt we'll ever get to see this, since he's not a primary character, but I would imagine a kindly nun or priest took Yemi in and showed him the generous and accepting side of the church. Eko, on the other hand, went a different way, and the harsh judgment employed by that nun did nothing to improve the situation. When you tell a starving teen it's a sin to feed his little brother, there needs to be a better reason aside from "'Cause God said so!" Well...God didn't see his way clear to feed Yemi, did he? Still...Eko made numerous efforts to try to find the message within the church that saved his brother; he surely wasn't devoid of self-loathing. Sadly, though, that die had been cast long ago; at this point, building that church didn't help him find deep answers. Nothing was going to be enough by that time. Eko didn't have it in him to be a spiritual, righteous shepherd. He was a survivor. Obviously it would take a person time to come to such a stark conclusion. Eko never claimed to be proud of what he'd done, but he wasn't going to lie down and accept judgment, either. They didn't have the right; they weren't there. It appears the island didn't take kindly to Eko's perceived self-justification, and therefore killed him. The question remains, however: how do we know what direction someone like Jack or Hurley would have taken in that same situation...or, for that matter, any of us? Who are we - or the church, or the island - to judge? It's a lot easier to preach moral absolutes when you're willing to compromise, which is what most of us do every day. Eko saw compromise as weakness. If you're going to battle injustice, you don't go halfway. You fight, and take no prisoners. Anyway, it's a fair and extremely complicated question, and it took several episodes - and a couple of years - to properly put it before us. I thought it was brilliant.
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Post by Sara on Nov 2, 2006 21:31:53 GMT -5
So why didn't the black smoke kill him in "The 23rd Psalms"? I'm going to set aside the internet showbiz gossip mill for the moment (since we all know that stuff is mostly pointless and speculative crap) and try to focus on the story being told. <snipped, but only for space> I thought it was brilliant. Speaking of brilliant... Nicely done, Rob.
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Post by rich on Nov 2, 2006 22:27:05 GMT -5
What was going on here? What did the writers do? Turn Eko's character around, so that they can kill him off? How is it that he was able to face the black smoke in "The 23rd Psalms", and end up getting killed by it in this episode? As for Ausiello's story about Adewele being disliked on the set, they're also circulating the rumor that he wanted to leave the show, because he had difficulty dealing with his parents' deaths, earlier this year. Apparently, Cuse and Lindehoff cannot make up their minds why Adewele left the show. And I wouldn't take Mike Ausiello's words about the behind-the-scenes action on LOST, if he was the last columnist on earth. If I sound bitter . . . I am. Apparently, I got emotionally involved in the Tail Section passengers FOR NOTHING. I find this so hard to believe. We're talking about a man who spent 40 days in silent pennance, because he was wallowing in guilt over killing the Others who tried to kidnap him. In fact, I thought that Eko had "made peace" when he had faced the black smoke for the first time. Perhaps the writer of this episode had forgotten about "The 23rd Psalms"[/i]. [/quote] I didn't make myself very clear. *note to self - don't post before morning caffeine* What I meant is that until that point, he didn't let go of his guilt and forgive himself. IMO, you can do all the pennance you want (atone for all the bad you've done in your life - 'help the helpless/cry in a basement'), but until you forgive yourself, you can never truly be healed/saved/redeemed. I know that it looked like the island was punishing him for his arrogance, but the look of peace on his face in his final moments and the scene of him walking off with his brother flies in contrast to that. It's confusing. [/quote] The only cure for survivor's guilt is to die.
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Post by rich on Nov 2, 2006 22:29:57 GMT -5
I didn't make myself very clear. *note to self - don't post before morning caffeine* What I meant is that until that point, he didn't let go of his guilt and forgive himself. IMO, you can do all the pennance you want (atone for all the bad you've done in your life - 'help the helpless/cry in a basement'), but until you forgive yourself, you can never truly be healed/saved/redeemed. I know that it looked like the island was punishing him for his arrogance, but the look of peace on his face in his final moments and the scene of him walking off with his brother flies in contrast to that. It's confusing. Well, maybe the island saw what it was doing as punishment; what it couldn't control (or perhaps even imagine) is that Eko might see death as a gift. #metoo#
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Post by Rob on Nov 2, 2006 22:39:02 GMT -5
I'm going to set aside the internet showbiz gossip mill for the moment (since we all know that stuff is mostly pointless and speculative crap) and try to focus on the story being told. <snipped, but only for space> I thought it was brilliant. Speaking of brilliant... Nicely done, Rob. Thanks. You've been a lovely audience. Be sure to remember to tip your waitresses.
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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on Nov 2, 2006 22:55:50 GMT -5
Speaking of brilliant... Nicely done, Rob. Thanks. You've been a lovely audience. Be sure to remember to tip your waitresses. Is that like tipping cows, and don't the waitresses object? Very nice indeed, Rob. What I was trying to say, only much more and much, much better.
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Post by Rob on Nov 2, 2006 23:12:32 GMT -5
Is that like tipping cows, and don't the waitresses object? Never tip a cow...at least with cash. They tend to eat it.
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Post by SpringSummers on Nov 3, 2006 8:03:27 GMT -5
I didn't make myself very clear. *note to self - don't post before morning caffeine* What I meant is that until that point, he didn't let go of his guilt and forgive himself. IMO, you can do all the pennance you want (atone for all the bad you've done in your life - 'help the helpless/cry in a basement'), but until you forgive yourself, you can never truly be healed/saved/redeemed. I know that it looked like the island was punishing him for his arrogance, but the look of peace on his face in his final moments and the scene of him walking off with his brother flies in contrast to that. It's confusing. The only cure for survivor's guilt is to die. Well, yeah, that and to live. I think Eko got to live before he died. I think he forgave himself. It's why he could accept death peacefully, when it came.
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Post by SpringSummers on Nov 3, 2006 8:13:53 GMT -5
I'm going to set aside the internet showbiz gossip mill for the moment (since we all know that stuff is mostly pointless and speculative crap) and try to focus on the story being told. <snipped, but only for space> I thought it was brilliant. Speaking of brilliant... <snip and substitute: > Nicely done, Rob. Really great insights, Rob. I nominate Rob to be our Lost reviewer.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Nov 3, 2006 14:25:54 GMT -5
Teaser.
Ooh, young Eko flashback.
Eko goes all Jean Val Jean...
So he's in a trance or something.
Back? From where?
Confession again. Nice. I really liked how they tied that earlier moment together.
So he actually set his tent on fire. Or something.
What the fuck is going on?
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Nov 3, 2006 14:35:11 GMT -5
Part I
Jack doing the ol' prisoner workout.
Yep, those were Ben's X-Rays. Jack figured it out. Good for him.
And Ben wasn't expecting this. Hmm.
Is this some nutty religious ceremony? Oh, Colleen's funeral.
So Desmond was able to IM on the computer like Michael did?
So Eko just suddenly woke up sort of. OK.
Eko's new identity.
London.
OMG, this is freaky.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Nov 3, 2006 14:39:22 GMT -5
Part II
Jack doing the ol' prisoner workout.
Yep, those were Ben's X-Rays. Jack figured it out. Good for him.
And Ben wasn't expecting this. Hmm.
Is this some nutty religious ceremony? Oh, Colleen's funeral.
So Desmond was able to IM on the computer like Michael did?
So Eko just suddenly woke up sort of. OK.
Eko's new identity.
London.
OMG, this is freaky.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Nov 3, 2006 14:42:33 GMT -5
Part III
Ah, they're addressing the "clique" problem.
the computer or Eko?
Don't mistake coincidence for fate. Wee bit awkward, there, but I like them referencing it.
Thugs again.
Yemi compromised with the thugs. Eko sees his brother in a different light.
You don't want more lives on your conscience.
Smoke monster. With a rattling sound. did it make that before?
Locke and company caught up with him.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Nov 3, 2006 14:54:08 GMT -5
Part IV
I'm not big on mysteries.
doctor-patient confidentiality.
Ahem. assuming Ben is telling the truth:
*The Other's/Ben's plan is to break them and wear them down in order to convince Jack/Kate/Sawyer that the Others are NOT the enemy and get them to trust the Others. That's some serious insane troll logic there.
I want you to want to save my life. I don't suppose it ever occurred to you to ask in the first place.
*Ben was diagnosed with the tumor 2 days before the plane crash. Diagnosed by whom? On the island or off the island in a telemedicine sort of way?
The plane crash that brought Jack to the island Ben interprets as proof of God. BUT do not mistake coincidence for fate.
Whoa. Do not get Eko angry, Locke.
Ah, Yemi managed to negotiate a better deal with the thugs.
Nurse calls Eko a good man.
Eko going back and forth between his two personalities.
When Locke encountered the Smoke Monster, he saw beautiful bright light.
Yemi's corpse is missing. Just like Jack's dad's corpse was missing.
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