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Post by rich on Nov 9, 2006 10:51:16 GMT -5
Oh, and am I the only one who wondered who Jacob was and why Jack wasn't on his list? I'm thinking Jacob is One-eyed Hatch Guy.
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Post by Matthew on Nov 9, 2006 10:55:24 GMT -5
Huh. Eko is still in the opening credits. Juliet, Benry, Paulo and Nikki have been added to the opening credits. Interesting. Juliet, Ben, Paulo and Nikki have been in the opening credits since the first episode. Oh, the hell with you and your perspicacious "noticing" of things and crap.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Nov 9, 2006 11:01:24 GMT -5
I guess with Simon, I didn't know him yet, so over time I forgave that egregious violation. I'm...confused about how I feel about Jack. I definitely think he's a different person now that I did before, but then I'm all, "Well, yeah, but you gotta do what it takes to get out," and then I'm all, "And you don't like that sort of moral simplicity in people, anyway." And then I bounce back to it not being about personal morals, it's about an oath that doctors take...then I go back to doctors all still being human, and Ben should frankly have suspected something like this might happen.... Exactly. I'm finding it really hard to know exactly how to feel about Jack's actions. As the seasons have progressed, we've seen his clear-cut sense of right and wrong get seriously vagued up--I think it started with his participation in torturing Sawyer, myself. And standing by for so long while Sayid tortured Benry didn't help matters either. He's also learned to place trust in Kate, when in RL he'd have never even considered believing a fugitive from the law could be a good person, and been utterly betrayed by someone he thought of as principled and honest (Michael). So his moral compass certainly isn't what it used to be. However, we also know Jack's a damn good poker player. So who's to say he wasn't lying about the kidney sac and only having an hour to save Ben, faked making the little nick for the benefit of those he knew were watching, and instead screwed around with the heart monitor to make it seem as if Ben's life is in danger? Now that would be the mother of all bluffs... Hmm, I like that theory.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Nov 9, 2006 11:03:01 GMT -5
Oh, and am I the only one who wondered who Jacob was and why Jack wasn't on his list? I'm thinking Jacob is One-eyed Hatch Guy. Ooh! Interesting theory.
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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on Nov 9, 2006 11:05:43 GMT -5
I guess with Simon, I didn't know him yet, so over time I forgave that egregious violation. I'm...confused about how I feel about Jack. I definitely think he's a different person now that I did before, but then I'm all, "Well, yeah, but you gotta do what it takes to get out," and then I'm all, "And you don't like that sort of moral simplicity in people, anyway." And then I bounce back to it not being about personal morals, it's about an oath that doctors take...then I go back to doctors all still being human, and Ben should frankly have suspected something like this might happen.... Exactly. I'm finding it really hard to know exactly how to feel about Jack's actions. As the seasons have progressed, we've seen his clear-cut sense of right and wrong get seriously vagued up--I think it started with his participation in torturing Sawyer, myself. And standing by for so long while Sayid tortured Benry didn't help matters either. He's also learned to place trust in Kate, when in RL he'd have never even considered believing a fugitive from the law could be a good person, and been utterly betrayed by someone he thought of as principled and honest (Michael). So his moral compass certainly isn't what it used to be. However, we also know Jack's a damn good poker player. So who's to say he wasn't lying about the kidney sac and only having an hour to save Ben, faked making the little nick for the benefit of those he knew were watching, and instead screwed around with the heart monitor to make it seem as if Ben's life is in danger? Now that would be the mother of all bluffs... I think you're right. I also like your last paragraph - if Jack's running another con, that'd make things really fun. What if Jack set the con up with Ben, and Ben rigged the heart monitor to start acting up at a certain time? Wheels within wheels within wheels, hee. P.S. I am not emotionally attached to the show, and I wouldn't cry if I missed an episode, but it certainly makes for stimulating discourse the morning after. What would I do without my S'cubies?
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Post by Karen on Nov 9, 2006 11:41:48 GMT -5
If nothing else it's an interesting parallel with Firefly, when we saw Simon use someone else's life as leverage to get what he wanted. What I find interesting is that, based on the little bit of reaction on the 'net I've seen this morning, people don't have nearly the issue with Jack using his life-and-death power over Ben for his own reasons as they did with Juliet asking the same thing of him. I realize there are many differences, not the least of which is Juliet asked Jack to kill Ben outright, but in both cases it boils down to Jack betraying his oath as a doctor to "do no harm" for personal gain. So, like I said, interesting... I found that aspect of the story very distressing. Jack is, I don't quite know how to express this, losing what makes him Jack, his dedication to his calling. If Ben dies because of Jack's actions, Jack may not be able to live with himself, and if Jack can, I'd have serious reservations about his ability to perform as a surgeon. So I have issues with what Jack did, and they're big ones. Jack's actions are understandable, but not excusable, IMHO, if that makes sense. Anne, hoping some of this makes sense, because it won't come out coherent no matter how many times I retype it P.S. It does, however, make for interesting TV, and I hope we get to see the repercussions, on Jack and those close to him. I wonder if Jack has always made the right decision in regards to his calling. And maybe he keeps making that same mistake, and when he no longer does, the island will let him have peace.
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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on Nov 9, 2006 12:06:45 GMT -5
I found that aspect of the story very distressing. Jack is, I don't quite know how to express this, losing what makes him Jack, his dedication to his calling. If Ben dies because of Jack's actions, Jack may not be able to live with himself, and if Jack can, I'd have serious reservations about his ability to perform as a surgeon. So I have issues with what Jack did, and they're big ones. Jack's actions are understandable, but not excusable, IMHO, if that makes sense. Anne, hoping some of this makes sense, because it won't come out coherent no matter how many times I retype it P.S. It does, however, make for interesting TV, and I hope we get to see the repercussions, on Jack and those close to him. I wonder if Jack has always made the right decision in regards to his calling. And maybe he keeps making that same mistake, and when he no longer does, the island will let him have peace. That gives me an idea: Jack's issues with his dad stemmed from his dad's drinking, which affected his dad as a surgeon and as a father. Jack's dad isn't perfect, and now neither is Jack. Nobody is perfect and right all the time, and maybe Jack needs to learn that so he can forgive his dad. The other question is, now that Sawyer and Kate have had sex, who gets offed? Sawyer's had sex twice now, so maybe he's next on the island hit list. Or maybe he's immune, due to the rioting that would ensue amongst certain S'cubies...
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Post by Karen on Nov 9, 2006 12:45:23 GMT -5
I wonder if Jack has always made the right decision in regards to his calling. And maybe he keeps making that same mistake, and when he no longer does, the island will let him have peace. That gives me an idea: Jack's issues with his dad stemmed from his dad's drinking, which affected his dad as a surgeon and as a father. Jack's dad isn't perfect, and now neither is Jack. Nobody is perfect and right all the time, and maybe Jack needs to learn that so he can forgive his dad. The other question is, now that Sawyer and Kate have had sex, who gets offed? Sawyer's had sex twice now, so maybe he's next on the island hit list. Or maybe he's immune, due to the rioting that would ensue amongst certain S'cubies... LOL! Yeah - there'd be a mass exodus of viewership if they offed Sawyer. I just don't know about Kate and Sawyer. Sawyer asked her if she meant it when she told the Others that she loved him, or if she just did it to save his live. She didn't say anything - just kissed him, which spoke volumes. I think she loves Jack.
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Post by Pixi on Nov 9, 2006 13:13:46 GMT -5
If nothing else it's an interesting parallel with Firefly, when we saw Simon use someone else's life as leverage to get what he wanted. What I find interesting is that, based on the little bit of reaction on the 'net I've seen this morning, people don't have nearly the issue with Jack using his life-and-death power over Ben for his own reasons as they did with Juliet asking the same thing of him. I realize there are many differences, not the least of which is Juliet asked Jack to kill Ben outright, but in both cases it boils down to Jack betraying his oath as a doctor to "do no harm" for personal gain. So, like I said, interesting... I found that aspect of the story very distressing. Jack is, I don't quite know how to express this, losing what makes him Jack, his dedication to his calling. If Ben dies because of Jack's actions, Jack may not be able to live with himself, and if Jack can, I'd have serious reservations about his ability to perform as a surgeon. So I have issues with what Jack did, and they're big ones. Jack's actions are understandable, but not excusable, IMHO, if that makes sense. Anne, hoping some of this makes sense, because it won't come out coherent no matter how many times I retype it P.S. It does, however, make for interesting TV, and I hope we get to see the repercussions, on Jack and those close to him. I am not a Jack fan and I found this very disturbing. In the sense that it really is fundamentally wrong for a doctor to do. Once you step over that line . . . . I don't care what your motivation is. I could never see Dr. McCoy doing something like this. He couldn't even let Mirror Mr. Spock die in Mirror, Mirror even if it meant he couldn't get back to his universe. I'm sorry - while I see admiration for Jack for this over on TWOP, it just puts me more firmly in the disliking Jack column. Um. . . . Monnie don't hurt me. Sara - what is your input on this on Lost expert?
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Post by Pixi on Nov 9, 2006 13:14:52 GMT -5
Oh, and am I the only one who wondered who Jacob was and why Jack wasn't on his list? I'm thinking Jacob is One-eyed Hatch Guy. That's my guess too. I like your icon. Very pretty blue.
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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on Nov 9, 2006 13:29:35 GMT -5
That gives me an idea: Jack's issues with his dad stemmed from his dad's drinking, which affected his dad as a surgeon and as a father. Jack's dad isn't perfect, and now neither is Jack. Nobody is perfect and right all the time, and maybe Jack needs to learn that so he can forgive his dad. The other question is, now that Sawyer and Kate have had sex, who gets offed? Sawyer's had sex twice now, so maybe he's next on the island hit list. Or maybe he's immune, due to the rioting that would ensue amongst certain S'cubies... LOL! Yeah - there'd be a mass exodus of viewership if they offed Sawyer. I just don't know about Kate and Sawyer. Sawyer asked her if she meant it when she told the Others that she loved him, or if she just did it to save his live. She didn't say anything - just kissed him, which spoke volumes. I think she loves Jack. I think she loves both of them, but differently, if that makes sense. ETA: Jack is more like her husband, and Kate may feel she doesn't deserve to be happy with a "normal" guy (and she was a mite bored with the whole "taco night perfect housewife frilly apron" routine, I suspect). Kate is drawn to Sawyer because they're kindred spirits.
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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on Nov 9, 2006 13:42:52 GMT -5
That gives me an idea: Jack's issues with his dad stemmed from his dad's drinking, which affected his dad as a surgeon and as a father. Jack's dad isn't perfect, and now neither is Jack. Nobody is perfect and right all the time, and maybe Jack needs to learn that so he can forgive his dad. The other question is, now that Sawyer and Kate have had sex, who gets offed? Sawyer's had sex twice now, so maybe he's next on the island hit list. Or maybe he's immune, due to the rioting that would ensue amongst certain S'cubies... LOL! Yeah - there'd be a mass exodus of viewership if they offed Sawyer.I just don't know about Kate and Sawyer. Sawyer asked her if she meant it when she told the Others that she loved him, or if she just did it to save his live. She didn't say anything - just kissed him, which spoke volumes. I think she loves Jack. I was thinking pitchforks, lanterns, nooses and the storming of the network battlements followed by a visit to Madame Guillotine for the writers, but whatever.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Nov 9, 2006 13:47:21 GMT -5
I love how they kept talking about Kate finally making her big decision, and we're all still debating who she really wants to be with. ;D
I'm more in favor of Kate/Jack, for the completely shallow reason that I love Jack while I really don't care for Sawyer. But I don't really believe in shipping and I'm just gonna sit back and let them tell their story.
In conclusion, threesome. Look into it.
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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on Nov 9, 2006 13:50:44 GMT -5
I love how they kept talking about Kate finally making her big decision, and we're all still debating who she really wants to be with. ;D I'm more in favor of Kate/Jack, for the completely shallow reason that I love Jack while I really don't care for Sawyer. But I don't really believe in shipping and I'm just gonna sit back and let them tell their story. In conclusion, threesome. Look into it. I think you've got Lola's vote.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Nov 9, 2006 14:06:05 GMT -5
I posted this on the main board, but I'm putting it here too, 'cause I can.
And did anybody else notice how unusually pretty Lost was last night? I mean in addition to the "Hawaii Pretty" we've all come to know and love, Eko's funeral with the sunbeams streaming down, Jack lying asleep on the table, Jack when Kate came in to talk to him green on blue, the filming of Sawyer and Kate getting it on. Wow.
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