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Post by William the Bloody on Oct 14, 2004 14:09:29 GMT -5
The games afoot!
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Post by Laura on Oct 14, 2004 15:20:00 GMT -5
Amazing, Spring, just amazing -- as always.
A few comments:
[/i] was based on the book The Once and Future King (my emphasis) by T.H. White -- if that isn't a time reference, I don't know what is. • A "boy trapped in the girls' bathroom" -- what a brilliant piece of foreshadowing -- and just as brilliant of you to notice it. • Finally, the eyes -- I mentioned somewhere (don't remember where, sorry!) that the title character keeps reminding me of a '70's movie starring Faye Dunaway called The Eyes of Laura Mars -- I'll be very surprised if someone involved in the creation of the series doesn't have that movie down on his/her "favorites" list![/ul] Brava, cara. Again. [/color][/size]
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Post by Patti - S'cubie Cutie on Oct 14, 2004 15:40:20 GMT -5
Spring, excellent review....
Nice catch on the Camelot motel - that theory should certainly not be dismissed at this stage....I can hardly think of anything more devastating to Veronica if she were to find out - which would certainly explain her father's reluctance to tell her.
Hee! Duncan Donut! I missed that completely!
I tend to disagree though that Justin knew his father was alive. I think he was just trying to get Veronica to spend time with him. I have no answer about why the time he'd been dead (or gone) kept changing though...I noticed it myself in the back of my mind, but didn't see enough in his expression to make me think he knew or believed his father was still alive, until he got the letter.
I DID 'feel' something was wrong about the video store customer who turned out to be his...parental unit...though...she was clearly too interested in the clerk. I thought she was just some lonely icky person, especially with the movie she ordered.
Troy....don't trust him, at all. I hope Veronica's detective instincts start working better for her soon before she gets hurt again.
Spring, I liked the way you picked up on Duncan confronting his parents about the dog....he's working his way 'there'...I was so sad to see him take the pill again, but maybe it's just one step back...and soon he'll step forward again.
Thank you for a great review!
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Post by SpringSummers on Oct 14, 2004 15:56:16 GMT -5
Amazing, Spring, just amazing -- as always. A few comments: [/i] was based on the book The Once and Future King (my emphasis) by T.H. White -- if that isn't a time reference, I don't know what is. • A "boy trapped in the girls' bathroom" -- what a brilliant piece of foreshadowing -- and just as brilliant of you to notice it. • Finally, the eyes -- I mentioned somewhere (don't remember where, sorry!) that the title character keeps reminding me of a '70's movie starring Faye Dunaway called The Eyes of Laura Mars -- I'll be very surprised if someone involved in the creation of the series doesn't have that movie down on his/her "favorites" list![/ul] Brava, cara. Again. [/quote] Thanks, Laura. I try to do these reviews very quickly, so you're getting more of my "on the fly" observations - so I appreciate the feedback and extra observations and comments all the more. I haven't given a whole lot of considered thought to the Camelot thing. But that pool scene was so very, very "The Graduate" to me. And it got me to wondering. I have never seen "The Eyes of Laura Mars," but that is such an odd last name, it could definitely be a deliberate reference. |
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Post by SpringSummers on Oct 14, 2004 16:10:12 GMT -5
Spring, excellent review.... Nice catch on the Camelot motel - that theory should certainly not be dismissed at this stage....I can hardly think of anything more devastating to Veronica if she were to find out - which would certainly explain her father's reluctance to tell her. Hee! Duncan Donut! I missed that completely! I tend to disagree though that Justin knew his father was alive. I think he was just trying to get Veronica to spend time with him. I have no answer about why the time he'd been dead (or gone) kept changing though...I noticed it myself in the back of my mind, but didn't see enough in his expression to make me think he knew or believed his father was still alive, until he got the letter. I DID 'feel' something was wrong about the video store customer who turned out to be his...parental unit...though...she was clearly too interested in the clerk. I thought she was just some lonely icky person, especially with the movie she ordered. Troy....don't trust him, at all. I hope Veronica's detective instincts start working better for her soon before she gets hurt again. Spring, I liked the way you picked up on Duncan confronting his parents about the dog....he's working his way 'there'...I was so sad to see him take the pill again, but maybe it's just one step back...and soon he'll step forward again. Thank you for a great review! Thanks, Patti. I didn't make it very clear, but I agree with you - I don't think Justin "knew" his father was alive either. But I think he, sort of under the surface, half-suspected it all along - and that no matter what he told his friends (and maybe even himself, I agree) he was driven to engage Veronica because of that underlying suspicion, and using the "hot girl" thing as an excuse (again, maybe even to himself.) I don't trust Troy either. Our two "bad boys" actually seem more trustworthy: Logan is obnoxious but he is very "what you see is what you get" as is Weevil. I hope we get to know more about Wallace at some point. He also comes off as very trustworthy. Duncan - he's a mess. He knows something awful "deep down inside" and he misses Lily and he misses Veronica horribly - but all he manages to get out is a convulted expression of how much he misses his dog. |
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Post by Lola m on Oct 14, 2004 20:11:12 GMT -5
For an "on the fly" review, you done pretty dang good at identifying themes and structure!
With time, as you and Lily know, the truth will come out. The truth about her murder, about what happend to Veronica at the party and who's responsible, the truth about her mother. Heck, even the truth about Troy and Mr Kane and Veronica herself.
I agree with you that Justin had doubts about the story his mother was telling him about his dad. He didn't really, consciously know what. And I think he partly was trying to get an "in" with Veronica. But what an unusual way to pick - find my (supposedly I think dead) dad? Yeah. And it speaks to his hopes and fears and how much he's been wondering about this, that he takes one look at the video store woman behind the wheel and knows. I guess he was right when he said that he just needed to look into his dad's eyes and he'd know.
There were a heck of a lot of stunningly well done scenes in this ep. The aforementioned by you: The painfully well acted and beautifully filmed scenes with Duncan and his parents or when he once again swallows the pill. Veronica and her dad talking about her mom and then the scene where she tries to find her.
Finally, I really liked how you remined us of all the images of fakery and note that labels and outward appearances can mislead. In particular, it will be important for us to keep in mind your thoughts about Veronica herself.
Just an excellent review, Spring! Thanks.
Lola
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Post by SpringSummers on Oct 15, 2004 7:43:09 GMT -5
For an "on the fly" review, you done pretty dang good at identifying themes and structure! Thanks. My experience with the BtVS analysis comes in handy here. But I don't have time to do things like look up the lyrics to the songs that play, find all the lyrics to "The Fool on The Hill," refresh myself on the themes of "The Graduate," "Grease," and "Body Heat," (btw, LOTS of movie references in this ep, and two video stores . . . I thought it was meant to back up the "living a lie" feel we were getting - the boy working amongst fictional depictions of life has a life which is partly fictional, etc.) Yes - you've explained it better than I did. I didn't mean to doubt that he thought Veronica was a pretty girl and liked he idea of getting close to her, but underneath it all, I don't think it was his primary motivation (even if he was telling himself that it was.) Glad you mentioned the "Duncan at the dinner table" scenes. I really liked the way they were shot. The environment was so sterile and cold, even the plates and servingware were uniniviting . . . the way Duncan sat between the two of them . . . just really well put together and done all around. As always, many thanks for the feedback. I suspect the "Veronica is reading some outward signs incorrectly" message in some of the scenes is more likely about her choice of Troy in this same episode, than her continuing love for Duncan - but I feel a little shaky on that. And of course, we get the strong feeling she doesn't begin to understand what is going on with Mom. |
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Post by Nickim on Oct 17, 2004 10:02:18 GMT -5
Thanks, Patti. I didn't make it very clear, but I agree with you - I don't think Justin "knew" his father was alive either. But I think he, sort of under the surface, half-suspected it all along - and that no matter what he told his friends (and maybe even himself, I agree) he was driven to engage Veronica because of that underlying suspicion, and using the "hot girl" thing as an excuse (again, maybe even to himself.) I don't trust Troy either. Our two "bad boys" actually seem more trustworthy: Logan is obnoxious but he is very "what you see is what you get" as is Weevil. I hope we get to know more about Wallace at some point. He also comes off as very trustworthy. Duncan - he's a mess. He knows something awful "deep down inside" and he misses Lily and he misses Veronica horribly - but all he manages to get out is a convulted expression of how much he misses his dog. I sound like a broken record, but great review Spring I think the exchange about the dog was a clue that appearances mean everything to Mr. & Mrs. Kane. The sterility of the scene--3 people eating at that huge formal table, the dark lighting, everything hard angles, no softening curves--again emphasizes how important appearances are to these people. The dog was digging up the landscaping, right? So get rid of it. Had Lily been digging up family secrets, threatenting to destroy the "landscape"--the look of their perfect family? If, so, just rid of her. I liked the way Duncan tuned out his father and then in the next scene Veronica tuned out her dad. This show is very well edited, IMO. Veronica and her dad have a very nice, large kitchen for such a crappy looking apartment complex. Loved the "what did you just call me?" V & D--notice those initials--together are they a dangerous disease? Dangerous to each other, or those around them? I really like this show. Hope we get way more than 13 episodes. |
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Post by Lola m on Oct 17, 2004 18:17:29 GMT -5
I sound like a broken record, but great review Spring I think the exchange about the dog was a clue that appearances mean everything to Mr. & Mrs. Kane. The sterility of the scene--3 people eating at that huge formal table, the dark lighting, everything hard angles, no softening curves--again emphasizes how important appearances are to these people. The dog was digging up the landscaping, right? So get rid of it. Had Lily been digging up family secrets, threatenting to destroy the "landscape"--the look of their perfect family? If, so, just rid of her. I liked the way Duncan tuned out his father and then in the next scene Veronica tuned out her dad. This show is very well edited, IMO. Veronica and her dad have a very nice, large kitchen for such a crappy looking apartment complex. Loved the "what did you just call me?" V & D--notice those initials--together are they a dangerous disease? Dangerous to each other, or those around them? I really like this show. Hope we get way more than 13 episodes. digging upOoooh, nice metaphor there, Nicki! Digging up things the family wants hidden, ruining the nice perfect surface appearance of the family. Is this what got Lily killed? Very intriguing idea. Thanks! Lola |
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Post by SpringSummers on Oct 17, 2004 19:02:19 GMT -5
Ooooh, nice metaphor there, Nicki! Digging up things the family wants hidden, ruining the nice perfect surface appearance of the family. Is this what got Lily killed? Very intriguing idea. Thanks! Lola Ditto, Nicki! Nice catch - the dog is sent away for "digging things up," and ruining the look of the place. I do think the whole "dog story" was meant to be Duncan's - sort of subconscious - way of talking about Lily, and your insight here fits perfectly with that. |
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Post by Sue on Oct 19, 2004 12:19:47 GMT -5
I sound like a broken record, but great review Spring I think the exchange about the dog was a clue that appearances mean everything to Mr. & Mrs. Kane. The sterility of the scene--3 people eating at that huge formal table, the dark lighting, everything hard angles, no softening curves--again emphasizes how important appearances are to these people. The dog was digging up the landscaping, right? So get rid of it. Had Lily been digging up family secrets, threatenting to destroy the "landscape"--the look of their perfect family? If, so, just rid of her. I liked the way Duncan tuned out his father and then in the next scene Veronica tuned out her dad. This show is very well edited, IMO. Veronica and her dad have a very nice, large kitchen for such a crappy looking apartment complex. Loved the "what did you just call me?" V & D--notice those initials--together are they a dangerous disease? Dangerous to each other, or those around them? I really like this show. Hope we get way more than 13 episodes. Nicki- I like your dog parallel. The whole digging up thing. Any Lilly is still trying to do more digging through Duncan's subconcious, even after she's dead! Someone else posted on whether we can believe that the parents actually arranged for a good home for the dog or simply had her put down and are lying to Duncan. The likely probably that they have also been lying about Lilly also parallels what they did with the dog. Clearly there needs to be more exposition on the whole time of death snafu. (And, after only 3 episodes I have faith that this will happen. It won't be left hanging). WHO faked the time of death and HOW it was faked will be clear pointers to solving the mystery of WHY she was killed and by WHOM. ------------- Other thoughts. I liked Spring's references to "time." Yes, this show is very time-oriented. Every week we learn things about the past, have a plot set in the present, and move toward revelations about the future. She also made very astute observations about the emphsis on eyes and isolation. If I had more time myself I would do direct quotes. I also agree with Nicki the the editing and camera shots are used very effectively to stress all of these recurring themes. Finally, I think Spring is wise to remind us that appearances can be deceiving (I've read at least one post automatically assuming that Veronica's mother was having an affair with Mr. Kane, and I don't think we can jump to that conclusion). We are a long way from really knowing these characters or knowing who to trust. |
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Post by Nickim on Oct 30, 2004 14:16:37 GMT -5
I finally got to see the rest of this episode.
NEVER, NEVER, NEVER move someone with a possible spinal cord injury. I know it's just a TV show, but they should set a better example. Call 911 and let them move the person.
Other thoughts---Veronica asking Duncan "how's your head" right after or soon after his hallucination. Duncan still cares a lot about Veronica. He almost hit Logan after Logan made that "laid" comment.
Nice tie-in of the Smith kid looking for his dad and finding something shocking with Veronica looking for her mom. Will she find an even bigger shock?
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Post by Lola m on Jan 25, 2005 22:30:37 GMT -5
Things I paid more attention to/thought about more on this re-watch:
* Duncan, his drugs and his wacky mood swings. All due to going off the depression med? Or due to his "other" problem/drugs. The ones we don't know any specifics about yet.
* Duncan and Veronica each having dreams about making out with each other.
* Dream!Lily talking about the things that don't make sense and about which the truth will eventually come out. Not just her murder, but her disappearance. What disappearance?
* Troy seemed even more weasel-like than we first thought, now that I know the truth. But weren't we the smarties not to trust him right from the get go!
* I was able to see more uncertainty and confusion and hurt in Logan. I noticed the snark, yes, but noticed a lot more instances of him looking at Duncan and being at a total loss, afraid of what was gonna happen next. I really didn't see that the first time around. I wonder why not? And it makes me wonder if he knows more of the wacky stuff that's been going on with Duncan than I thought and is worried about it.
* Paid a lot more attention to Veronica now that I knew how the case of the week was gonna come out and wasn't trying to guess about it. Noticed a lot more pain and sadness than I had remembered.
* Also, interesting to listen to her analogy of the tornado blowing through your life. How some people (Duncan) sit in the wreckage and pretend it is still a mansion. Some people (Keith) find something good to build thing back up. Some people (Justin) understand you need to keep moving. But the most interesting of all was: some people (Veronica) just keep chasing the storm.
Lola
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Post by Sue on Jan 26, 2005 11:46:37 GMT -5
Things I paid more attention to/thought about more on this re-watch: * Duncan, his drugs and his wacky mood swings. All due to going off the depression med? Or due to his "other" problem/drugs. The ones we don't know any specifics about yet. * Duncan and Veronica each having dreams about making out with each other. * Dream!Lily talking about the things that don't make sense and about which the truth will eventually come out. Not just her murder, but her disappearance. What disappearance? * Troy seemed even more weasel-like than we first thought, now that I know the truth. But weren't we the smarties not to trust him right from the get go! * I was able to see more uncertainty and confusion and hurt in Logan. I noticed the snark, yes, but noticed a lot more instances of him looking at Duncan and being at a total loss, afraid of what was gonna happen next. I really didn't see that the first time around. I wonder why not? And it makes me wonder if he knows more of the wacky stuff that's been going on with Duncan than I thought and is worried about it. * Paid a lot more attention to Veronica now that I knew how the case of the week was gonna come out and wasn't trying to guess about it. Noticed a lot more pain and sadness than I had remembered. * Also, interesting to listen to her analogy of the tornado blowing through your life. How some people (Duncan) sit in the wreckage and pretend it is still a mansion. Some people (Keith) find something good to build thing back up. Some people (Justin) understand you need to keep moving. But the most interesting of all was: some people (Veronica) just keep chasing the storm. Lola The first time around this was not one of my favorite episodes---but what I've been noticing on the reruns is that they actually still hold my attention. Not saying VM is or every will rise to the level of Buffy, but one hallmark of good TV is that you can still be drawn in even tho the know the outcome--because there are other things happening beyond the basic "solve the mystery" plot. Stuff with characterization and relationship developments; subtle-ty (?) in acting--facial, body language; details in the writing where you want to consider carefully each word--all things mentioned by Lola above. |
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Jul 2, 2006 9:01:38 GMT -5
Reenacting a scene from The Graduate.
Mars dinner vs Kane dinner
OK, that make out session looked really awkward
Duncan's on anti-depressants... or not.
This case sounds like a challenge
Dude, I wouldn't be looking at her stolen file in broad daylight
Gosh, Veronica's just got admirers all over the place. Guess she's not so unloved after all.
So, his father was dead but not really? Wow, that was lucky.
The hero is the one that stays and the villian is the one that splits. Hmm....
Duncan= Dumbass.
Student Government elections
Damn that's a lot of blood
So he broke up with Veronica before Lilly died
So how about going off anti-depressants gradually? Doesn't have to be cold turkey.
So this is the whole be careful what you wish for scenario when looking for long lost parents?
Wow, little too close for comfort.
Donut. HEE!!
Oh, so that's actually his father, transgendered.
Marlene Dietrich?
So all about parents and children. Building relationships and relationships breaking down.
Dude, blonde fetish all over again.
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